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Abkhazia in the Georgian-Russian war 2008
#1
Shall we talk a little more about Abkhazia? What exactly happened there since the beginning?

I have not heard Georgians would have attacked its capital Sukhumi like it attacked Tskhinvali?

But I have heard about Georgian refugees who were chased from Abkhazia by Abkhazian separatist authorities? Someone said here 350 000 people? Btw, during which period were they chased away?

I have heard Russian army came to “proper” Georgian ports like Poti and caused damage? Maybe also victims?

I am sorry to not have registered facts more exactly about this “Western front”, the attention has been mere on South Ossetia.

Now I would ask all of you here to tell their views about what has happened in Abkhazia. Thanks.
#2
I post again these comments by Lenus (thank you). Has anyone more views about the Abkhazian situation? What happened during these war days?

Quote:Abkhazians never lived in Abkhazia longer then Georgians. Therefore many Akhazians consider themselves as part of Georgian Nation. It has always been a bi-ethnic land with Georgians "Management". The praying language - Georgian, All ancient scripts on Churches - in GEorgian, All Coin issues beat letters in Georgian.

Abkhaz ethnos however, transformed a lot, they received some tribes from N. Caucasus, Some of them changed Religion because of the Turkish Domination, etc. So, I unerstand their distancing from Georgians, but historical scolars regad Abkhazia as biautochtonic region and never a monoautochtonic.

Moreover, the eastern part of Abkhazia has always een monoautochtonic, predominantly resided by Georgians. The high Princes of Abhkazia always bore two names - local and georgian, as they were a undivided part of the Georgian Royal Structure. (Chachba - Shervashidze, Inal-ipa - Inalishili, etc).

Georgians have as much rights on that area as Abkhazians. And it wasn't us who comitted genocide against civilians, it was them. It would be extremely unfair, if Abkhazians are rewarded for it and Georgians are punished.
#3
Dear forum users, please note, you are not allowed to use uncensored language within the forum. Try to respect each other's opinion.
Thank you!
#4
Andrewz Wrote:Dear forum users, please note, you are not allowed to use uncensored language within the forum. Try to respect each other's opinion.
Thank you!
I fully agree with you. Pleace try not to insult each other, though as I guess the temperature of disscussion is quite high.
#5
Nobody insulted anybody in this thread! So could somebody please answer my questions...
#6
Actualy Abkchazia and S Osetia (tough they are not recognized officialy as independent countries) had some kind of mutual defense treaty. So since Georgia unnoficialy started war against Russia we helped them and they helped us. It is easier to defeat someone from 2 fronts like history teaches.
#7
I think this information will be useful for this thread, as people can inform themselves before saying anything about Abkhazia
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia</a><!-- m -->
#8
So-called Russian “peacemakers” killed Georgian civilians by cluster bombing. If anybody has a doubt, please, visit the website of Human Rights Watch to see video of bombing of Georgian town Gori.
#9
In 1993 Russian occupants expatriate from Abkhazia region of Georgia about 250 000 (more then 45 % of total population of Abkhazia) Georgian civilians. Thousands of them were brutally tortured to death. After this ethnic cleansing, the Russian government gave the Abkhaz separatists political, economic, as well as military supports. Abkhaz separatists misappropriate the property of Georgia refugees. Afterwards Russia carried out a referendum for independence of Abkhazia. Recently Russian occupants entered the Kodori gorge (a region of Abkhazia until recently controlled by Georgian government), as well as South Ossetia to commit a new act of ethnic cleansing. Houses of Georgian civilians have been burned. Russians did not permit the International Red Cross to this regions. Now it is Georgia, but who is the next?

15 May 2008 General Assembly of U.N.O approved a resolution concerning homecoming of Georgian refugees to Abkhazia. Russian, as well as Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Serbia, Syria, Sudan, Byelorussia voted against this resolution. If you want, you can check it. As to the recent act of ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia, I can address you to an interview of the lieder of Ossetian separatist Kokoity (Medvedev and Putin often meet him in Kremlin) in the Russian newspaper “Komersant”. He said that Ossetian militants “fully cleaned out” Georgian villages on the territory of unrecognized republic, and Ossetian never permit them (Georgians) come back. Unfortunately, I can not tell you an exact number of this newspaper (I red it in internet), but it was in last week.

Where is the World?
#10
and how did Russia motivate the refusal to vote pro?
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#11
the globe Wrote:In 1993 Russian occupants expatriate from Abkhazia region of Georgia about 250 000 (more then 45 % of total population of Abkhazia) Georgian civilians. Thousands of them were brutally tortured to death. After this ethnic cleansing, the Russian government gave the Abkhaz separatists political, economic, as well as military supports. Abkhaz separatists misappropriate the property of Georgia refugees. Afterwards Russia carried out a referendum for independence of Abkhazia. Recently Russian occupants entered the Kodori gorge (a region of Abkhazia until recently controlled by Georgian government), as well as South Ossetia to commit a new act of ethnic cleansing. Houses of Georgian civilians have been burned. Russians did not permit the International Red Cross to this regions. Now it is Georgia, but who is the next?

It was just war between Georgia and Abkhazia, Russia did not interfere this conflict at all at the beginning. As I remember this war was initiated by Georgia. Everytime Georgia begins wars, loses and then begins to cry that it is unfair. It is better not to begin wars if you cannot fight well
#12
So if I understood right, before 1993 in Abkhazia there was a minority of Abkhazs, thus a minority of those who would probably have voted for independence in referendums? And the Abkhaz separatist forces, with the backup of Russians, throwed away 250 000 Georgian people from Abkhazia? Thus a new possible referendum would have been in favour of independence?

Yes, how did Russia motivate the voting against returning of the refugees??

To me, it sounds now like Abkhazia and South Ossetia have not earned independency, as they have no majority of the “indigenous” entity and probably no majority voting pro independence, if all people who should live there (refugees included) are not allowed to return and vote!

(I suppose the Georgian families of Abkhazia have been there for hundreds of years, contrary to e.g. huge part of Russian-speaking population in Baltic states?)

And thus… the case of Abkhazia (and of South Ossetia, if there is the same situation) can NOT BE COMPARED TO the case of KOSOVO ! There, there is a clear majority of Albanians (about 80 %), not even the Serbs can deny it.

In my opinion, there should be no matter who “starts” which wars and who shall be “punished” how. More important is the demographical situation of the region. I would not like to be a Georgian driven away from Abkhazia. It is of course wrong to kill also, and Georgians who have killed Abkhazians should be punished. And vice versa. Always the civilians suffer.

One can ask, what was the reason of separatism, if Abkhazs had good conditions of living under Georgian rule? And cultural autonomy and freedom of speech? Why was necessary to start thinking about independence with such low part of Abkhazians in the population?

1993… it was the time of Shevardnadze president, right? Why do you not accuse him of being a fool?
#13
With the collapse of the Soviet Union, fearing the break-up of the Georgian "empire", the Georgian leadership decided to keep Abkhazia, South Ossetia and other non-Georgian regions within Georgia by means of force. Beginning from late 80-s, counting on the assistance of thousands of Georgians of Abkhazia, who found themselves here as a result of demographic expansion, the Georgian authorities launched an anti-Abkhazian campaign. Following the government's directives, scholars, intellectuals, informal organizations, clergy and Georgian mass media were accusing the "newcomers" on the Georgian land, Abkhazians, in all failures of the Georgian nation, particularly, in "blocking" their way towards national independence. In reality, the misanthropic ideology of aggressive Georgian nationalism was aimed at stirring up inter-ethnic animosity in Abkhazia, intimidating the Abkhazians and representatives of other nationalities living in Abkhazia, at abolishing the statehood of Abkhazia and the creation on the territory of the Georgian SSR of a unitary mono-ethnic independent Georgian state. The opponents of the cherished goal were threatened with physical annihilation or eviction from Abkhazia.
Bloody events in Abkhazia in July 1989, inspired by the Georgian authorities, became a dress rehearsal for a planned large-scale inter-ethnic and inter-state armed confrontation.

In the years that followed, at the bidding of the Tbilisi emissaries, the Georgian ultranationalists started the division of institutions, enterprises, arts associations and other unions and even sport teams according to the ethnicity, and the citizens of non-Georgian nationality were dismissed from their jobs. Later the Ministry of Interior, the Procurator's Office, the Supreme Council and the Government of Abkhazia became also divided along the ethnic lines. Simultaneously to this, illegal Georgian armed formations were created, which were engaged in blackmailing and looting of peaceful civilians, in terror and subversive activities on the territory of Abkhazia.

The artificially created complex social-political and criminal situation forced thousands of Russians, Armenians, Greeks, Estonians and representatives of other nationalities to leave the Republic. Simultaneously, ethnic Georgians from Georgia were moving to Abkhazia and were getting permanent residence.

The leadership of Abkhazia repeatedly appealed to the Georgian authorities demanding to halt these explosive processes, but all in vain.

In the course of ever growing Georgian-Abkhazian opposition, which was taking place against the background of the collapse of the USSR and, accordingly, the Georgian SSR, the state-legal relations between Georgia and Abkhazia were disrupted. On 25 August 1990 the Supreme Council of Abkhazia, fearing the encroachment upon Abkhazia's statehood, and realising the right of the Abkhazian nation to self-determination, adopted the "Declaration on the State Sovereignty of Abkhazia" and the Resolution "On Legal Guarantees for the Protection of the Statehood of Abkhazia". On 21 February 1992 the Military Council of Georgia reinstated the Constitution of 1921 in which the state status of Abkhazia was not determined, and somewhat later, on 23 July 1992, the Supreme Council of Abkhazia restored the 1925 Constitution of Abkhazia, according to which Abkhazia was a sovereign state.

On 14 August 1992 the Republic of Georgia launched an armed attack against Abkhazia aiming at abolishment of the statehood of Abkhazia and at depriving of its people of their political independence. The Georgian occupational forces, among whom were thousands of criminals deliberately released from their prisons, perpetrated war crimes: they destroyed towns and other settlements, destroyed items of great cultural value for the nation, including the Central State Archives of Abkhazia and the unique Abkhazological Research Institute, treated prisoners of war and the wounded with cruelty, killed and raped peaceful civilians, looted and seized public and private property. The Georgian military-political authorities were guided by the principle "Abkhazia without the Abkhazians", which was officially confirmed on 25 August 1992 by G. Karkarashvili, the Commander-in-Chief of the occupational troops in his televised address. The Georgian population of Abkhazia, especially the inhabitants of the settlements created during the Stalin period, took a most active part in mass killings of Abkhazians, including children, women and elderly.
As a result of the ethnic cleansing, practically no Abkhazian population was left on the occupied part of Abkhazia, including the towns of Ochamchyra, Sukhum and Gagra. For example, according to the data of the Procurator's Office of Abkhazia, out of 7 thousand of Abkhazians residing in the city of Ochamchyra, over 400 were forced to be registered as Georgians, hundreds of Abkhazians were killed, and the rest had to flee in order to save their lives.

The Georgian occupants transferred the main focus of their operations onto the territory of Eastern Abkhazia. Following the directives of the Georgian leadership, they surrounded and isolated from the outside world all Abkhazian settlements in this area, including the town of Tkuarchal. Using modern weaponry, including the weapons of mass destruction, such as artillery systems "Grad", "Uragan", cluster shells and other kinds of weapons banned by the Geneva Convention of 1949, the aggressor was deliberately and systematically destroying the Abkhazian population of Abzhywan Abkhazia, which made up nearly a half of the entire Abkhazian nation. In the course of military operations a number of Abkhazian settlements were razed to the ground. It is noteworthy that among the documents of the headquarters of the 24th brigade of the Georgian military forces, captured by the Abkhazian fighters, a plan was found of launching on 26 December 1992 of a massive nuclear attack directed at 34 objects, including the settlements in Eastern Abkhazia.

Trying to escape genocide, the Abkhazians and representatives of other nationalities from Sukhum, Gagra and other areas of the Republic were thronging into Bzyp Abkhazia, which, encircled by the enemy and isolated from the outer world, was engaged in unequal struggle. Thus, in the end of the XXth century, before the eyes of the civilized world, the Georgian nationalists were carrying out a deliberate extermination of the Abkhazian nation, which, according to the Convention of the UN General Assembly of 9 December 1948, can be qualified as genocide.

The Procurator's Office of the Republic of Abkhazia, conducting criminal investigation of numerous crimes committed by the Georgian occupational forces in Abkhazia, instituted more than three thousand criminal cases. Thousands of Armenians, Greeks, Russians, Ukrainians, Jews, Estonians, Turks and others were forced to leave Abkhazia. For example, during only one day, on 15 August 1993, 1200 ethnic Greeks were expelled from the city of Sukhum. As a rule, the authorities discontinued the residence permits of the citizens who had to leave the occupied territory, and they had to produce written obligations stating that they would not return back to Abkhazia. The houses and apartments of the deported citizens of Abkhazia were given over exclusively to ethnic Georgians, to those who were fighting in Abkhazia, or to those hastily brought in from Georgia.

The Supreme Council of the Republic of Abkhazia, at the very outset of the war, qualified in its special Resolutions of 15.09.1992 the actions of the Georgian military-political authorities against Abkhazia and its people as an aggression and genocide. The leadership of Abkhazia, public and political organizations, scientific institutions and individual citizens of Abkhazia have been repeatedly appealing to the world community with the request to stop the genocide, ethnic cleansing and other crimes being committed in Abkhazia by the Georgian authorities. However, no adequate practical measures were taken by the world community in order to save the Abkhazians and all multi-ethnic population of Abkhazia.

The people of Abkhazia, at the cost of incredible efforts and a considerable number of lives have heroically defended the liberty and independence of their motherland. A great assistance in this holy struggle was provided by the volunteers from the North Caucasus, the South of Russia and by the representatives of the Abkhazo-Adyghean Diaspora, by the people of good will. The majority of the Georgian population of the Republic, who played here the role of the "fifth column", had left Abkhazia together with the retreating Georgian troops.
Since the end of active military activity, the Georgian authorities have been trying to conceal from the world community their crimes committed in Abkhazia. Moreover, they are trying to groundlessly accuse the Abkhazian side in "aggressive separatism" and "genocide" of the Georgians, thus creating a false public opinion concerning the lawfulness and necessity of solving the problem by means of force.

Regrettably, referring to one-sided information provided by Georgia, and with silent approval of international and regional organizations, the Russian Federation, in its capacity of facilitator of negotiations, is carrying out an economic and informational blockade of Abkhazia, thus aggravating the hardships and living standards of the multi-ethnic population of Abkhazia, which suffered during the war.
#14
Where exactly Abkhazia is? Is it also in the North of Georgia?
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#15
North-West. It is considerably bigger than South Ossetia.

Curious if all this has passed by the international community?
#16
It passed by, because it is not recognized by anybody, except for Russia.
#17
By the way, if to compare the events being described in the report (it was 15 years ago )and events that occurred in S Ossetia nowadays there are many common things, eg using the weapons of mass destruction against civilians that is banned by the Geneva Convention of 1949, genocide of local population and what we saw before we see now

Since the end of active military activity, the Georgian authorities have been trying to conceal from the world community their crimes committed in Abkhazia. Moreover, they are trying to groundlessly accuse the Abkhazian side in "aggressive separatism" and "genocide" of the Georgians, thus creating a false public opinion concerning the lawfulness and necessity of solving the problem by means of force.

Nothing changes, the same methods are used by georgian authorities.
#18
EU1 Wrote:By the way, if to compare the events being described in the report (it was 15 years ago )and events that occurred in S Ossetia nowadays there are many common things, eg using the weapons of mass destruction against civilians that is banned by the Geneva Convention of 1949, genocide of local population and what we saw before we see now

Since the end of active military activity, the Georgian authorities have been trying to conceal from the world community their crimes committed in Abkhazia. Moreover, they are trying to groundlessly accuse the Abkhazian side in "aggressive separatism" and "genocide" of the Georgians, thus creating a false public opinion concerning the lawfulness and necessity of solving the problem by means of force.

Nothing changes, the same methods are used by georgian authorities.
From were is this information above? from wikipedia? Maybe I miss information in thoese huge post but there was figures about population there. before and after war?

After those war 250.000 georgians were displaced from AbxazeTi. It is native poppulation who was living there during centuries. You can see another topics with hisorical facts about here on this forum. The whole population of AbxazeTi was about 430.000-450.ooo. OSCE prooffed inforamtion about ethnic clinsings of GEORGIAN population there. Of course this war was inspired and managed by RUssia. As everybody can watch tv this days, when they were celebreting " independance" they all were shootng from russian kalashnikovs. And it was civil population. OK hunting guns, but kalashnikovs?? So give question who was distributing during past 15 years this kalashnikos to civil population?( togather with passports)
#19
And even if all these atrocities were true, does it give the right for revenge by displacing population? Those who committed the atrocities should be imprisoned and condemned, of course, but other civilians should not have to suffer by being driven away from their native living land.
#20
The above report was written by Abkhasian side. The problem of this forum we can only read opinions of georgian side and its allies from Baltic and some other countries, in brief their opinion is that Russia is guilty in everything and everywhere. But don't forget that it is opinion of agressor that initiated many wars against breakaway territories with proved facts of genoside against civilians. The picture cannot be full without victim side but I don't see any Ossetians or Abkhazians here.
#21
EU1 Wrote:With the collapse of the Soviet Union, fearing the break-up of the Georgian "empire", the Georgian leadership decided to keep Abkhazia, South Ossetia and other non-Georgian regions within Georgia by means of force.

With the "collapse" of Soviet Union, Russian, desparate to keep Soviet Republics under control, initiated and provoked three wars in Georgia. Abkhazians declared "national Independence" but without referendum.

It provoked hostilities in the region, as Abkhazians tried a lot, it went to an armed clash, Governmental troops (ill-discipplined, but still better then current Russian "peacekeepers"), entered the area to protect the Railway. They were shoot at, the war roke out, and our Minister of Defense today is hiding in Moscow. Need I say more on who orchestrated the whole thing?

EU1 Wrote:Beginning from late 80-s, counting on the assistance of thousands of Georgians of Abkhazia, who found themselves here as a result of demographic expansion, the Georgian authorities launched an anti-Abkhazian campaign. Following the government's directives, scholars, intellectuals, informal organizations, clergy and Georgian mass media were accusing the "newcomers" on the Georgian land, Abkhazians, in all failures of the Georgian nation, particularly, in "blocking" their way towards national independence. In reality, the misanthropic ideology of aggressive Georgian nationalism was aimed at stirring up inter-ethnic animosity in Abkhazia, intimidating the Abkhazians and representatives of other nationalities living in Abkhazia, at abolishing the statehood of Abkhazia and the creation on the territory of the Georgian SSR of a unitary mono-ethnic independent Georgian state. The opponents of the cherished goal were threatened with physical annihilation or eviction from Abkhazia.

Rubbish. Wouldnt even comment it. Please prove your claiming regarding "abolishing the statehood of Abkhazia and the creation on the territory of the Georgian SSR of a unitary mono-ethnic independent Georgian state." Who tried to abolish Abkhazian Autonomy? Facts, please.

EU1 Wrote:In the years that followed, at the bidding of the Tbilisi emissaries, the Georgian ultranationalists started the division of institutions, enterprises, arts associations and other unions and even sport teams according to the ethnicity, and the citizens of non-Georgian nationality were dismissed from their jobs. Later the Ministry of Interior, the Procurator's Office, the Supreme Council and the Government of Abkhazia became also divided along the ethnic lines. Simultaneously to this, illegal Georgian armed formations were created, which were engaged in blackmailing and looting of peaceful civilians, in terror and subversive activities on the territory of Abkhazia.

Another rubbish. Are there Any facts you could back these accusations with?
Pro-Russian users are so reluctunt to bring eviences of what they perceived to believe is "truth".

Quote:The leadership of Abkhazia repeatedly appealed to the Georgian authorities demanding to halt these explosive processes, but all in vain.

Facts, please. Who exactly, whch Govt Official appealed to which president??

Quote:In the course of ever growing Georgian-Abkhazian opposition, which was taking place against the background of the collapse of the USSR and, accordingly, the Georgian SSR, the state-legal relations between Georgia and Abkhazia were disrupted. On 25 August 1990 the Supreme Council of Abkhazia, fearing the encroachment upon Abkhazia's statehood, and realising the right of the Abkhazian nation to self-determination, adopted the "Declaration on the State Sovereignty of Abkhazia" and the Resolution "On Legal Guarantees for the Protection of the Statehood of Abkhazia". On 21 February 1992 the Military Council of Georgia reinstated the Constitution of 1921 in which the state status of Abkhazia was not determined, and somewhat later, on 23 July 1992, the Supreme Council of Abkhazia restored the 1925 Constitution of Abkhazia, according to which Abkhazia was a sovereign state.

So you are issuing a statement, that Abkhazia declared the independece first? Doesn't it look like a provoking the Government forces? Did they have any legal grounds to follow their "self-determination" as you put?

Constitution you refer to, (1921) was created after Georgian- Abkhaz Agreement of 1918. That agreement is still valid, it meant Abkhazia to become a part of Georgia, if Georgia pledged to protect them from Russians. It was signed and endorsed for unlimited time period, not till the first urge of KGB agents to follow their "self-determination".

Quote:On 14 August 1992 the Republic of Georgia launched an armed attack against Abkhazia aiming at abolishment of the statehood of Abkhazia and at depriving of its people of their political independence.


You are confirming again, Abkhazia declared independence disregarding Georgian Sovereignity and statehood. Now, let's imagine Scotland does the same unilaterally. Would GB bring extra forces in the region? Don't Russians do the same all the time? Its not the way to gain independence. You need to talk first, not to declare declarations.

Quote:The Georgian occupational forces, among whom were thousands of criminals deliberately released from their prisons, perpetrated war crimes: they destroyed towns and other settlements, destroyed items of great cultural value for the nation, including the Central State Archives of Abkhazia and the unique Abkhazological Research Institute, treated prisoners of war and the wounded with cruelty, killed and raped peaceful civilians, looted and seized public and private property.

It reminds me of Kokoity's 2000 killed civilians. Putin repeated it too. But now they are backpedalling to 133 civilians. No proves they were "brutally killed" by Georgians either.

It amazes me, that pro-russian sattelite state with self-declared independence, soaked with hatred towards everything Georgian, didn't apply to hague international court with the Genocide claims? What would be the possible reason for such passive position?

I think, the reason must be blatantly straightforward - such things were not done by Georgians, but Abkazians themselves against Georgian civilians. Georgian government tried to forget the whole issue, but not anymore, not after "betrayal stabbing in the back - 2008", orchestrated by Russia again and aiming at destruciotn of Georgian Statehood.

Our lawyers are compiling all ethnic cleansing documents and filing a claim, So please don't be surprised by news soon.

On the same point, has UN ever made declaration, condemning the "Georgian atrocities", or we have to trust Abkhaz Prosecution office, mostly managed by Russian Officials directly. (All major ministers and chiefs in Abkhazia are Russians from Russian KGB office.)

And yet again, I can find the UN resolution from where ethnic cleansing is associated and condemned as an Abkhaz-side actions. What have you got to say about that?

Quote: It is noteworthy that among the documents of the headquarters of the 24th brigade of the Georgian military forces, captured by the Abkhazian fighters, a plan was found of launching on 26 December 1992 of a massive nuclear attack directed at 34 objects, including the settlements in Eastern Abkhazia.

:oO has Georgia got a Nuclear Weapon?

Do we have to believe to those "Abkhazian fighters" or you actually have any evidence of what you are saying?

Quote:Trying to escape genocide, the Abkhazians and representatives of other nationalities from Sukhum, Gagra and other areas of the Republic were thronging into Bzyp Abkhazia, which, encircled by the enemy and isolated from the outer world, was engaged in unequal struggle. Thus, in the end of the XXth century, before the eyes of the civilized world, the Georgian nationalists were carrying out a deliberate extermination of the Abkhazian nation, which, according to the Convention of the UN General Assembly of 9 December 1948, can be qualified as genocide.

I dont you deserve answers unless you bring ANY evdience of what you are saying.
Genocide is when Abkhaz and Russians entered Gagra, after a cease-fire agreement, and killed innocent civilinas, and played football with theit heads.

hague court will inform us, on who did what, do not worry.

But in the meantime - Evidences, please.
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#22
Salomo Wrote:And even if all these atrocities were true, does it give the right for revenge by displacing population? Those who committed the atrocities should be imprisoned and condemned, of course, but other civilians should not have to suffer by being driven away from their native living land.


Solomo I'm more than agree with and your statement is a logical expression of the overall situation.
Others who don't agree are just not objective with themselves.
#23
As I said there is only georgian opinion here and this one consists on concealing and desstorting the facts. The report is not written by me but but abhazians. I posted it just to make you see that there is another opinion that differs georgian one. Unfortunately we see here only georgian and russian opinion but not victim part that could tell us about genoside made by georgians. I cannot trust georgian side as they lie much, by the way i tried to read one georgian historian, sorry but it wrote a bullshit, it just a georgian propaganda that we can see everywhe including this forum, Georgia is a great country and and all are guilty but not it. I also read abkhasian historians, they prove just another point of view, they lived at the territory before georgians. I am sure that, say, in 10 years georgian historians will write that russia attacked S Ossetia killed civilians and Georgia just defended, they will forget those 1500 civilians killed by georgian army, that it made genoside in ossetia....
#24
Are georgians ewer admitted in this forum any guilt for anything?
They are right in everything and if there are any problems they have it is becouse of russians. Reminds something?
Idea of any nazi, all the problems are becouse of ..... (put nationality). Of course it is easier than to admitt mistakes.
#25
SiD Wrote:Are georgians ewer admitted in this forum any guilt for anything?
They are right in everything and if there are any problems they have it is becouse of russians.

That is because all, or most of the members here are openminded and have an objective opinion, not politizied.




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