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Ingushetia Demands Independence from Russia!
#76
gomboreli Wrote:laws of jungle are in force for almost 10 years

10 years, or to be more precise almost 9, since Putin came to power, right?

Smile . No. But i give you 2 more attempts to ques.
#77
Forgot to put some smilies.
Apparently the free spirit of Dekabrists, Tolstoy and Sakharov has finally died out in Russia and no one is left to oppose a monstreous propaganda machine which is a proud successor of totalitarian Soviet system.
Ingushatia will definitely gain independence provided it keeps patience and waits for a suitable international situation when the current Russian state, like its Czarist and Sovier predecessors, will come crashing down
#78
gomboreli Wrote:Forgot to put some smilies.
Apparently the free spirit of Dekabrists, Tolstoy and Sakharov has finally died out in Russia and no one is left to oppose a monstreous propaganda machine which is a proud successor of totalitarian Soviet system.
Ingushatia will definitely gain independence provided it keeps patience and waits for a suitable international situation when the current Russian state, like its Czarist and Sovier predecessors, will come crashing down

Free spirit of decabrists? :haha . Parhaps tribal laws of tragladits havent died among you still? Smile .
#79
It came to my mind now that Putinists call their ex-monarchs God-sent saints :ange , even announced Nikolas II as such, so any revolt against them is considered a blaphemy.
Tragladit? Your command of English impresses me indeed.
#80
wow, you invented an entire movement of Putin's allies - Putinists
Sounds funny :haha
"I believe in making the world safe for our children, but not our children's children, because I don't think children should be having sex." Smile

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#81
gomboreli Wrote:It came to my mind now that Putinists call their ex-monarchs God-sent saints :ange , even announced Nikolas II as such, so any revolt against them is considered a blaphemy.
Tragladit? Your command of English impresses me indeed.

Putinists? Smile . Saakashvilists invited word ? Or bushists? No, i think it is bullshitists word.
#82
ok, if the word 'Putinist' is so offensive (just wondering why - Stalin's supporters are called Stalinists), is 'Putinoid' anyhow better?
#83
gomboreli Wrote:ok, if the word 'Putinist' is so offensive (just wondering why - Stalin's supporters are called Stalinists), is 'Putinoid' anyhow better?
It is not offensive it is meaningless. who is Putinist? Is it some kind of organization or every man who likes Putin is putinist? Or it is some kind of modern KGB or something else. Explain please.
#84
SiD Wrote:
gomboreli Wrote:ok, if the word 'Putinist' is so offensive (just wondering why - Stalin's supporters are called Stalinists), is 'Putinoid' anyhow better?
It is not offensive it is meaningless. who is Putinist? Is it some kind of organization or every man who likes Putin is putinist? Or it is some kind of modern KGB or something else. Explain please.


Do you admirer KGB?
#85
Giorgi Wrote:Do you admirer KGB?

It depends. I think you mean KGB as secrete police of opressive regime. if so than i am not.
#86
This topic is disinformation. Yes we have some problems with the rebels in this region, but it is not a rebelion. Some terrorists said, and you belived. We have our best troops in this region ( veterans), FSB (FSS-Federal Security Service) is strong there no way.
The best political regime for the nation is a regime which was saved this nation like an entire one. (M. Montein)
#87
SiD Wrote:
gomboreli Wrote:ok, if the word 'Putinist' is so offensive (just wondering why - Stalin's supporters are called Stalinists), is 'Putinoid' anyhow better?
It is not offensive it is meaningless. who is Putinist? Is it some kind of organization or every man who likes Putin is putinist? Or it is some kind of modern KGB or something else. Explain please.

Putinists can be considered people who approve what their govt has been doing. In modern world the information war is waged, and Putin, who is not called president any longer but who still pulls the strings, has been doubtlessly successful in convincing his people in large-scale propaganda campaign. He largely failed abroad though. His prime goal is to restore a past Russian glory - which is understandable - but who doesn't care about human values at all. This megalomaniac has cracked down on independent media, usurped the whole power - turned Parliament into a notary bureau - organized massacre of tens of thousand of Chechen civilians, killed its own citizens in the Theatre and Beslan and as he got away with these deeds, set to start foreign expansion.
He's surrounded by KGB and military conservators who convince the public about a worldwide conspiracy against Russia and who dream about the restoration of Russian empire innocently called the Soviet Union. While the tiny Baltic states have been lost for good and some countries rotate around the Kremlin's orbit, a few others have yet their fate to be determined. Imperialist ambitions are on rise and some officials are already itching their fingers for a next victim.
Putin lacks wisdom though. As he invaded another UN-member country and dismembered it, many in Eastern European countries hitherto thinking that Russia had changed its behaviour, have become anxious about their security. A wise politician wouldn't destroy civilian infrastructure well beyond the conflict area and wouldn't conduct ethnic cleansing. Wise people wouldn't organize an exhibition in museum showing military trophies and killed adversaries, most of them mutilated. Wise govt would remove a corrupt KGB general Zyazikov governing Ingushetia now and wouldn't carry out military exercises in the Caribbean in an attempt to show its muscles with its obsolete ships, because it looks ludicrous.
Sadly Putin's authocracy has managed to silence its citizens in a way that Soviet citizens were under the totalitarian regime. The policy of putinism is widely approved at home and its supporters can be called Putinists.
By the way, Putinism has even become a term. Some opponents of the Georgian leader (forgot his name!) claimed that domestically the putinization of the country had been completed, implying a poor record of human rights, although his proponents naturally are called differently.
#88
gomboreli Wrote:Putinists can be considered people who approve what their govt has been doing. In modern world the information war is waged, and Putin, who is not called president any longer but who still pulls the strings, has been doubtlessly successful in convincing his people in large-scale propaganda campaign. He largely failed abroad though. His prime goal is to restore a past Russian glory - which is understandable - but who doesn't care about human values at all. This megalomaniac has cracked down on independent media, usurped the whole power - turned Parliament into a notary bureau - organized massacre of tens of thousand of Chechen civilians, killed its own citizens in the Theatre and Beslan and as he got away with these deeds, set to start foreign expansion.

Does Georgia have independant media? Doesn't your president kill and arrest his opponents? Does Georgia care about human life value? Is there demorracy in Georgia?

Quote: He's surrounded by KGB and military conservators who convince the public about a worldwide conspiracy against Russia and who dream about the restoration of Russian empire innocently called the Soviet Union. While the tiny Baltic states have been lost for good and some countries rotate around the Kremlin's orbit, a few others have yet their fate to be determined. Imperialist ambitions are on rise and some officials are already itching their fingers for a next victim.

Did not Georgia try to restore Great Gergia which has never existed trying to occupy S. Ossetia and Abkhazia by any cost?

Quote:Putin lacks wisdom though. As he invaded another UN-member country and dismembered it, many in Eastern European countries hitherto thinking that Russia had changed its behaviour, have become anxious about their security. A wise politician wouldn't destroy civilian infrastructure well beyond the conflict area and wouldn't conduct ethnic cleansing. Wise people wouldn't organize an exhibition in museum showing military trophies and killed adversaries, most of them mutilated. Wise govt would remove a corrupt KGB general Zyazikov governing Ingushetia now and wouldn't carry out military exercises in the Caribbean in an attempt to show its muscles with its obsolete ships, because it looks ludicrous.
Sadly Putin's authocracy has managed to silence its citizens in a way that Soviet citizens were under the totalitarian regime. The policy of putinism is widely approved at home and its supporters can be called Putinists.
By the way, Putinism has even become a term. Some opponents of the Georgian leader (forgot his name!) claimed that domestically the putinization of the country had been completed, implying a poor record of human rights, although his proponents naturally are called differently.

Saakashvili lacks wisdom, he invaded the region where the citizens of another country lived, destroyed its capital, killed many civilians and thought that the USA would help him. And after that poor georgian population being under Saakashvili's totalitarian regime keep silence. After all that happened russian special forces had to capture Saakashvili, extradite him to south ossetia people so that they court-martial him and I guess he would have Saddam destiny for all his crimes.
#89
gomboreli Wrote:Putinists can be considered people who approve what their govt has been doing. In modern world the information war is waged, and Putin, who is not called president any longer but who still pulls the strings, has been doubtlessly successful in convincing his people in large-scale propaganda campaign. He largely failed abroad though. His prime goal is to restore a past Russian glory - which is understandable - but who doesn't care about human values at all. This megalomaniac has cracked down on independent media, usurped the whole power - turned Parliament into a notary bureau - organized massacre of tens of thousand of Chechen civilians, killed its own citizens in the Theatre and Beslan and as he got away with these deeds, set to start foreign expansion.
He's surrounded by KGB and military conservators who convince the public about a worldwide conspiracy against Russia and who dream about the restoration of Russian empire innocently called the Soviet Union. While the tiny Baltic states have been lost for good and some countries rotate around the Kremlin's orbit, a few others have yet their fate to be determined. Imperialist ambitions are on rise and some officials are already itching their fingers for a next victim.
Putin lacks wisdom though. As he invaded another UN-member country and dismembered it, many in Eastern European countries hitherto thinking that Russia had changed its behaviour, have become anxious about their security. A wise politician wouldn't destroy civilian infrastructure well beyond the conflict area and wouldn't conduct ethnic cleansing. Wise people wouldn't organize an exhibition in museum showing military trophies and killed adversaries, most of them mutilated. Wise govt would remove a corrupt KGB general Zyazikov governing Ingushetia now and wouldn't carry out military exercises in the Caribbean in an attempt to show its muscles with its obsolete ships, because it looks ludicrous.
Sadly Putin's authocracy has managed to silence its citizens in a way that Soviet citizens were under the totalitarian regime. The policy of putinism is widely approved at home and its supporters can be called Putinists.
By the way, Putinism has even become a term. Some opponents of the Georgian leader (forgot his name!) claimed that domestically the putinization of the country had been completed, implying a poor record of human rights, although his proponents naturally are called differently.

Thank you for explaining what you mean by putinist. I think you are Saakashvilists supported by Bushists and Sarkozists, Angelists Mercelists and others. Smile . We can find many funny "ists" in the world.
If you think that we like Putin becouse of his prapoganda machine you are mistaken. And your occusations about his involvment in terrorists actions are outrageus. That shows that YOU are under brainwashing for sure. Parhaps you want to condamn Bush for 11 september? Are you against his invasion into Iraq? Saakashvili sent your troops to help occupants.
About our foreign policy. He did what he had to. It is new for the west that we are defending our national interests, but they will learn. Medvedev continues his policy and that what exactly he was expected to do. Becouse he never hided it and that is why he won elections.
Do you thing it is unwise to defend our citizens and peacekeepers? It was unvise from you to try to invade S Osetia. If Saakashvili was defending your interests not foreign ones you would not loose S Osetia and Abkchazia.
#90
Saakashvili lacks wisdom, he invaded the region where the citizens of another country lived, destroyed its capital, killed many civilians and thought that the USA would help him. And after that poor georgian population being under Saakashvili's totalitarian regime keep silence. After all that happened russian special forces had to capture Saakashvili, extradite him to south ossetia people so that they court-martial him and I guess he would have Saddam destiny for all his crimes.

In this political prognozis I love this one most of all. Smile This was Presidents dream and second one was to cut Georgia in 2 parts, but not 1not 2 was reached. You only received corrupted Kokoiti and BAgabsh to spend your taxpears money on there residences in Moscow, but you lost, because Russia does not reach the goal of this agression:To despalce Saakashvili and to cut counrty in 2 parts.

I suppose that Russia needs some serios psychoterapist treatment to understand why they can not have normal relations with neibghors, why everyone hates them, why the persones who are somehow conected with Georgia ( spend childhood there) are so agressiv toward country which gaves them everythng in difficult times of there life( Lavrov) ?
You must ask many questions yourselfs and analize the information not only from Putins and ria novostis point of wiev, but from another sources too.
#91
Eka Wrote:In this political prognozis I love this one most of all. Smile This was Presidents dream and second one was to cut Georgia in 2 parts, but not 1not 2 was reached. You only received corrupted Kokoiti and BAgabsh to spend your taxpears money on there residences in Moscow, but you lost, because Russia does not reach the goal of this agression:To despalce Saakashvili and to cut counrty in 2 parts.

I suppose that Russia needs some serios psychoterapist treatment to understand why they can not have normal relations with neibghors, why everyone hates them, why the persones who are somehow conected with Georgia ( spend childhood there) are so agressiv toward country which gaves them everythng in difficult times of there life( Lavrov) ?
You must ask many questions yourselfs and analize the information not only from Putins and ria novostis point of wiev, but from another sources too.

Parhaps you dont get it but there are 2 independent countries on our border willing to build close friendly relations with Russia i think it is quite good. Intersting how could anyone split your country in half without occupation? Parhaps you can tell us.
There is no need to displace Saakashvili by force. Too much attention to his person.

Parhaps you will ask what are so many georgians doing in Russia if we are so bad? If you hate someone it doesnt mean everyone is doing same.
#92
Does Georgia have independant media? Doesn't your president kill and arrest his opponents? Does Georgia care about human life value? Is there demorracy in Georgia?

I already said about the level of democracy inside the country. ‘Putinization’ has become a word to describe the current state in regards with human rights.

Did not Georgia try to restore Great Gergia which has never existed

Be more specific please – if it never existed, how can someone restore it?! Your answer would make me understand what your level of knowledge in history is.

Saakashvili lacks wisdom, he invaded the region where the citizens of another country lived, destroyed its capital, killed many civilians and thought that the USA would help him. And after that poor georgian population being under Saakashvili's totalitarian regime keep silence. After all that happened russian special forces had to capture Saakashvili, extradite him to south ossetia people so that they court-martial him and I guess he would have Saddam destiny for all his crimes.

Be less emotional. You haven’t invented a new bicycle by saying that Saa-li lacks wisdom. His place is in the kindergarten at best. A propos his trial, I’d welcome it, but together with Putin for what he committed in Chechnya, he deserves punishment as severe as Saddam who officially was found guilty in killing about 300 Shi’a civilians only. Putin has slaughtered 300 multiplied by 1000!!

Do you thing it is unwise to defend our citizens and peacekeepers?

Let me ask you back how come behind the peacekeepers’ back Russia – such a proud mediator - issued passports to people in breakaway regions? Would you jump for joy if any great power would have taken advantage of your crushing defeat in Chechnya in 1996, issue passport to Chechens within the next three years and then under the pretext of protecting its citizens would interfere militarily?! If your leaders had been a little wise, they wouldn’t have literally cursed Saa-li so often like women because the longer they do so and longer their troops occupy parts of this country, the longer this man will stay in power.
I’m against the Russian, the US, Israeli, Ethiopian aggressions of respectively Georgia, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia etc. This list might be endless..
Even territorially such a big country lost some purely Russian lands in the course of history. Georgia lived four centuries with its present capital city in enemy's hands and liberated it as soon as the international situation afforded it, so if some people in the North nurture with illusions that everything is over now with this Russian military occupation, they’re gravely mistaken.
#93
gomboreli Wrote:[i]
If your leaders had been a little wise, they wouldn’t have literally cursed Saa-li so often like women because the longer they do so and longer their troops occupy parts of this country, the longer this man will stay in power.
I’m against the Russian, the US, Israeli, Ethiopian aggressions of respectively Georgia, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia etc. This list might be endless..
Even territorially such a big country lost some purely Russian lands in the course of history. Georgia lived four centuries with its present capital city in enemy's hands and liberated it as soon as the international situation afforded it, so if some people in the North nurture with illusions that everything is over now with this Russian military occupation, they’re gravely mistaken.
I agree that Saakashvili has been created by Russian politics toward Georgia. This Gay only plays on the general feeling of Georgians. I was reading a lot lately about Russia-Georgia relations and it does not sound that Russia had ever tried to establish normal relations with this country.I put responsibility on Russia only because it is Huge country who has an ambition of being superpower and it claims that Georgia and nearby countries are in its sphere of interests. I have an impression that with its actions Russia often scares off countries located at their border. If Georgia did not feel threatened it would never seek NATO membership. And even now, Russia sort of reinforces choice Georgia made. Small country can really do lots of damage if you do not consider its interest as well because, no matter how much troops you send there, as soon as they have possibility they will go against you.
#94
gomboreli Wrote:Do you thing it is unwise to defend our citizens and peacekeepers?

Let me ask you back how come behind the peacekeepers’ back Russia – such a proud mediator - issued passports to people in breakaway regions? Would you jump for joy if any great power would have taken advantage of your crushing defeat in Chechnya in 1996, issue passport to Chechens within the next three years and then under the pretext of protecting its citizens would interfere militarily?! If your leaders had been a little wise, they wouldn’t have literally cursed Saa-li so often like women because the longer they do so and longer their troops occupy parts of this country, the longer this man will stay in power.
I’m against the Russian, the US, Israeli, Ethiopian aggressions of respectively Georgia, Iraq, Lebanon, Somalia etc. This list might be endless..
Even territorially such a big country lost some purely Russian lands in the course of history. Georgia lived four centuries with its present capital city in enemy's hands and liberated it as soon as the international situation afforded it, so if some people in the North nurture with illusions that everything is over now with this Russian military occupation, they’re gravely mistaken.

No one took advantage in Chechnya becouse they could not. Terrorists in Chechnya had foreign support: mercs, money, and so on. But no one could interfere militarly. So there is difference betwenn Russia and Georgia becouse we suceded were you failed. So situations are different and you should act differently but you desided that you can use force and paid for it.
Our leaders are ocusing Saakashvili for good reason if you fail to see that than you deserve that kind of leader.
#95
I wrote about that possibility after your forces were driven out of Chechnya in August 96. 'Some terrorists' would have never been able to defeat your troops by the way. You don't even want to admit whom really Russia was fighting in Chechnya and repeat what the govt propaganda machine says. I wonder whether you regard Imam Shamil as terrorist as well..
A propos the Theather and Beslan, I meant the tactic employed by the Kremlin in such situations. Abroad and also in Russia under Yeltsin whenever hostages were taken, the priority was to save as many lives as possible. Putin was ready to sacrifice all hostages in desire to kill all hostagetakers. Sorry to say but I trust the Committee of Beslan's Mothers more than Russian Prosecution Office in their accounts of what happened in the school, because as they lost children, they don't have to fear of losing anything. So while Mothers say what they know, officials say what Putin wants them to say
So when this butcher points out at other people and accuse them of killing, it's only ridiculous - he's a killer of many more people, and if his supporters are inclined to forget or justify his deeds, others have a better memory and better judgement
#96
gomboreli Wrote:I wrote about that possibility after your forces were driven out of Chechnya in August 96. 'Some terrorists' would have never been able to defeat your troops by the way. You don't even want to admit whom really Russia was fighting in Chechnya and repeat what the govt propaganda machine says. I wonder whether you regard Imam Shamil as terrorist as well..
A propos the Theather and Beslan, I meant the tactic employed by the Kremlin in such situations. Abroad and also in Russia under Yeltsin whenever hostages were taken, the priority was to save as many lives as possible. Putin was ready to sacrifice all hostages in desire to kill all hostagetakers. Sorry to say but I trust the Committee of Beslan's Mothers more than Russian Prosecution Office in their accounts of what happened in the school, because as they lost children, they don't have to fear of losing anything. So while Mothers say what they know, officials say what Putin wants them to say
So when this butcher points out at other people and accuse them of killing, it's only ridiculous - he's a killer of many more people, and if his supporters are inclined to forget or justify his deeds, others have a better memory and better judgement

There was NO POSSOBILITY and thats it. First chechen war met strong apposition in Russia as well if you dont know. Anyway if you think that you and only you know all truth you are mistaken.
You blame Putin for his reaction? Dont you blame inhuman beings commiting those terracts? His policy is clear and understandable, we do not surrender to terrorists. Becouse it emboldens terrorists and spread fear among people. Facts that terrorists commited terracts on our territory is great failure of our secutity but we cant place all blame at one man, he was doing everything he could and he succeded. You should ask your government first why they needed war and what they gained, i think you just do not want to know the answer.
#97
Truth is a relative affair, based on a certain interpretation of events.
I've read tones of materials about the recent war and discussed many details with some people. But unlike you, I've never voted for any ruling party or person at any time and and my attitute towards the govt will always remain critical. The point is that when people from democratic countries condemn some events in the Caucasus, I may not only accept it, but also outdo them in condemnation. But when a killer of 100 teaches moral to a killer of 1 (compared with his Georgian counterpart Putin seems as a master in killings anyway), or his supporters talk about human rights' violation in other countries, it's just too much
#98
gomboreli Wrote:Truth is a relative affair, based on a certain interpretation of events.
I've read tones of materials about the recent war and discussed many details with some people. But unlike you, I've never voted for any ruling party or person at any time and and my attitute towards the govt will always remain critical. The point is that when people from democratic countries condemn some events in the Caucasus, I may not only accept it, but also outdo them in condemnation. But when a killer of 100 teaches moral to a killer of 1 (compared with his Georgian counterpart Putin seems as a master in killings anyway), or his supporters talk about human rights' violation in other countries, it's just too much

And man who lies to all world about WMDs and then invade other country is not much to you? How many people NATO killed? They are not much to you? They can teach you? Putin always acted for good of our people so your US puppet could learn much from him.
#99
Quote:Putin always acted for good of our people

If this is so, it means that good for your people means bad for other people and don't be surprised that so many nations, even the one having lived 350 years with yours side-by-side, are running away to the Euro-Atlantic Alliance.
If my friends and relatives start turning back on me, I'd logically want to find out what's wrong with me, coz they wouldn't dump me for good reason ...
gomboreli Wrote:
Quote:Putin always acted for good of our people

If this is so, it means that good for your people means bad for other people and don't be surprised that so many nations, even the one having lived 350 years with yours side-by-side, are running away to the Euro-Atlantic Alliance.
If my friends and relatives start turning back on me, I'd logically want to find out what's wrong with me, coz they wouldn't dump me for good reason ...

georgia joining NATO was bad for Russia did you cared? I think not. So if you dont care what is good for us why should we think what is good for you? That goes for everyone. And name me who is running away to atlantic allience? Parhaps they have 100% of thier people approving it?




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