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Russian modern Geo-politics
Tamsa. You are not right. Putin is a man who gave us a hope, he made the new state, state where I don't afraid to walk alone the street, where I can earn money for a normal life and travel around the world ect. Putin "killed" (if killed) not much people as a Bush. And Ivan IV died over 500 years ago, forget about him Smile .Do not worry everything will be allright, there will be no war against Russia, or the russian war against the , so called, West.
The best political regime for the nation is a regime which was saved this nation like an entire one. (M. Montein)

Tamsa Wrote:Once upon time there was Ivan IV Grozny (terrible_ 1533-1584), his favorite game in childhood was: gathering little cats, taking them up to the highest floor in his tower (14th) and then throwing and dropping them on the ground one by one ! after this he was walking down and watching this picture with plesure, this was an every day tradition in Ivans early life! Some time passed and in modern world was born new Ivan called Putan, who's favorite game became also killing, torturing with plesure, the diffrence is one : he likes to do this on man, as cat life is more important to him then human being!!!


second diffrence Ivan IV Grozny he was Grand Prince of Moscow & Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is ..... :twisted: no mother no fother difficalt childhood (from <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.russiaprofile.org/resources/whoiswho/alphabet/p/putin.wbp">http://www.russiaprofile.org/resources/ ... /putin.wbp</a><!-- m -->
Putin’s mother, Maria Nikolaevna Putina, died in February 1999, and his father, Vladimir Spiridonovich Putin, died August 2, 1999. false story after became acting President 1999) like Joseph Stalin and all TYRAN

Newrussian town Wrote:Tamsa. You are not right. Putin is a man who gave us a hope, he made the new state, state where I don't afraid to walk alone the street, where I can earn money for a normal life and travel around the world ect. Putin "killed" (if killed) not much people as a Bush. And Ivan IV died over 500 years ago, forget about him Smile .Do not worry everything will be allright, there will be no war against Russia, or the russian war against the , so called, West.

Not Putin, modern world gives chance to Russia to be a member of 21 sentury civilization but Putin is trying to cut all way to US & EU by to be aggressor and occupant to return in CCCP

disagree, he is a great man, a good leder. For example the Georgia. If they understood that they do not need Russia and the USA, both, they need to make their economy with tools that they have.- beautiful nature. fruits, vine, mineral water, ect.Brought appologises to those who suffered after theirs actions, made tires with russians people that realy loved Georgia, we could visit this country as a tourists, buy theirs vine, make business together, ect .Georgia might be neutrality, did not be the tool in the big games. and this breakaway republics returned in Geargia if you were not attack them. If your economy, not army, was stong they will came back. and now it is too late.
The best political regime for the nation is a regime which was saved this nation like an entire one. (M. Montein)

Newrussian town Wrote:disagree, he is a great man, a good leder. For example the Georgia. If they understood that they do not need Russia and the USA, both, they need to make their economy with tools that they have.- beautiful nature. fruits, vine, mineral water, ect.Brought appologises to those who suffered after theirs actions, made tires with russians people that realy loved Georgia, we could visit this country as a tourists, buy theirs vine, make business together, ect .Georgia might be neutrality, did not be the tool in the big games. and this breakaway republics returned in Geargia if you were not attack them. If your economy, not army, was stong they will came back. and now it is too late.

He is leader like Joseph Stalin and killer who have done chechnia, georgian-russian conflict and to try to split us

Giorgi Wrote:He is leader like Joseph Stalin and killer who have done chechnia, georgian-russian conflict and to try to split us

Split whom?

SiD Wrote:
Giorgi Wrote:He is leader like Joseph Stalin and killer who have done chechnia, georgian-russian conflict and to try to split us

Split whom?

Georgian territory Abkasia, osetia & normal relationship with russia

Giorgi Wrote:
SiD Wrote:
Giorgi Wrote:He is leader like Joseph Stalin and killer who have done chechnia, georgian-russian conflict and to try to split us

Split whom?

Georgian territory Abkasia, osetia & normal relationship with russia

Your problems with S Osetia and Abkchazia started long before Putin became president.
I take it you think that joining NATO is bringing us closer? Parhaps it is Putin idea too?
Not to mention that using force against S Osetia and our peacekeepers is act of agression.

Parhaps Saakashvili is Putins agent? Becouse he done all that you think Putin have done.

''Putin is a man who gave us a hope, he made the new state, state where I don't afraid to walk alone the street, where I can earn money for a normal life and travel around the world ect'''

Putan gave u hope?! what an interesting condition! so u can earn money now and live safely when ur govt destroies little nations?! u live normally and trevel when in ur influanced Chechnya (btw ur citizens) live in less then poverty?! where 80 % is unemployed and the rest works for Russian govt?! go on my frind and after this i don't want any Russian to say here : we are defensing our citizens , becouse u are not, u just use them for ur evil goals! and one more thing only in Moscow can say ppl they live better after putan's govt..
see this link please : <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2008/feb/11/women.of.slyozi">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... .of.slyozi</a><!-- m -->

Tamsa Wrote:Putan gave u hope?! what an interesting condition! so u can earn money now and live safely when ur govt destroies little nations?!

I would say the govt which protects small nations from aggression

Dear Tamsa. Did you realy think that states can be honest or merciful, there are only their interests. Even the stronghold of Democracy Smile such as The Union of the Saint States do not resist this fact. The small nations were, are, and will be the small change coin for a big games. Iraq, is it the right thing? Serbia? Afganistan? it is the same thing as, A and SO-Kosovo. Georgia-Serbia. Why do you thing that this world isn't a cruel thing, and it doesn't matter USA or RF. We all have our own interests such as - money. influence, lands, oil and gas. Please open your eyes! And about USA, how they can travel around the world if 60% of the world population earn less then 1$ in a day? I know why! Becouse they CAN. And I can, and you can for sure. :banghead
The best political regime for the nation is a regime which was saved this nation like an entire one. (M. Montein)

huh to be honest i don't anderstand what u are trying to say! and i don't anderstand why all russians take the discussion about USA and blame that country in everything?! don't u think that Georgians also have conscious to deside their own destiny?! any time about this conflict u make too many comparisons with America!! to tell u the truth i don't care about that big country games, i know perfectly that every tiny one is oppressed by stronger, but in this case we georgiens have choosen our direction (NATO) RF likes this or not and this organization is not only USA, u have to respect the other 25 country ,if u hate the States! we have chosen the west and u better accommodate to the oppinion that we can't be close any more! so many lies are coming from ''ru'' that Georgians will never get over their proud, becouse this little nation has a huge dignity..and the problem is that russia doesn't interested in this! they never considered us as a nation, and now ossetians and abkhzians became their brothers and sisters? after when? ah forgot u pretect little nations! what a lovely story_ i almost forgotten about enslaving of caucasian ethnic groups in RF and treating tham as an ''monkey posterity''. do u forget that? not me! now u became kind and frienly to them? where the hell u been doing during this 16 years? why didn't russia helped them and improved their statement, when abkhazians and ossetians were living in less level then poverty? why do u remember this ppl now and not before, i'm sure 90% of russian knew about this conflicts after 08/08/08...so don't try to prove me u are the angel who has saved ossetian and abkhazians lives! but forgot to save chechens and so on...

I think that ossetians resived more help from Russia then from Georgia. Today we were signed the docs. about frendship and support. RF rebuild Tshinval, rebuild schools and hospitals, give them opportunity to work in RF, gave to each ossetian family 100.000 for the first time ( who loss their homes), and building new houses right now, when we are talking. Georgia did nothing for this regions since 1992, only Russia helped this people, we even have given pensions for their oldmen,Russians did not killed their children, fathers, grandfathers. And what Georgia did? Distruction, death, and poverty. You have chosen NATO and West,so Abkhazia and South Ossetia did not, they chose Russia. Your goverment thought that they could win this war? I heard from Georgians, long before, something like- ha ha ha the russian army is old rubbish, and we have m-16, hammers, ect. in common USA weapons, and one F-16 can destroyed the whole squadron of our SU-27 ect. Did you realy think that you can attack SO, destroyed them, and then crushed Russian Army? For what? This is realy stupid thing. You lost the war, and lost some territory it is the rule for all wars in history.
The best political regime for the nation is a regime which was saved this nation like an entire one. (M. Montein)

EU1 Wrote:
Tamsa Wrote:Putan gave u hope?! what an interesting condition! so u can earn money now and live safely when ur govt destroies little nations?!

I would say the govt which protects small nations from aggression

Sure..
I'm thinking: Russia might be the best assurance company, only if you buy their assurance policy - the Russian citizenship.

The new five principles of Russian foreign policy:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7591610.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7591610.stm</a><!-- m -->

In essence, the new five principles could be reduced to two:
1. Russia and its Tsar are always right.
2. If Russia and its Tsar are wrong, see the first principle.
Smile
Other trials to introspect their thinking:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21772">http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21772</a><!-- m -->
Georgia and the Balance of Power By George Friedman
“The Russian invasion of Georgia has not changed the balance of power in Eurasia. It has simply announced that the balance of power had already shifted.”
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://edwardlucas.blogspot.com/2008/09/thoughts-on-friedman.html">http://edwardlucas.blogspot.com/2008/09 ... edman.html</a><!-- m -->
Friday, September 12, 2008
Thoughts on Friedman (Europe View no 98)
The weakness of the West, Sep 11th 2008, From Economist.com

Ossetian’s feel themselves in Georgia better then in Russian federation
There was such fact that in 1985 north Ossetian’s government send letter to Georgian government and they wanted to become part of Georgia but Russian KGB catch this people and after that thanks by Russian KGB start problems between Georgians and Ossetian’s
There was Ossetian theaters, schools, and cultural centers in Georgia which never was in Russian federation
Russian government need Ossetian’s only for destabilizations in Caucasus

Yalta1945 Wrote:The new five principles of Russian foreign policy:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7591610.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7591610.stm</a><!-- m -->

In essence, the new five principles could be reduced to two:
1. Russia and its Tsar are always right.
2. If Russia and its Tsar are wrong, see the first principle.
Smile

Fruits of globalization, You see. Russians has learned the "American way"...
Exactly the same foreign policy as US realizes. Ok, americans call their Tsar
as president of US, but it is the only difference...

zzura Wrote:Ossetian’s feel themselves in Georgia better then in Russian federation
There was such fact that in 1985 north Ossetian’s government send letter to Georgian government and they wanted to become part of Georgia but Russian KGB catch this people and after that thanks by Russian KGB start problems between Georgians and Ossetian’s
There was Ossetian theaters, schools, and cultural centers in Georgia which never was in Russian federation
Russian government need Ossetian’s only for destabilizations in Caucasus

Yeah and "georgian friends" of osetian people desided to help them to rebuild thier capitall by destroyng it with anyone who could not escape. Parhaps you should better stick to facts not prapoganda.

SiD Wrote:
zzura Wrote:Ossetian’s feel themselves in Georgia better then in Russian federation
There was such fact that in 1985 north Ossetian’s government send letter to Georgian government and they wanted to become part of Georgia but Russian KGB catch this people and after that thanks by Russian KGB start problems between Georgians and Ossetian’s
There was Ossetian theaters, schools, and cultural centers in Georgia which never was in Russian federation
Russian government need Ossetian’s only for destabilizations in Caucasus

Yeah and "georgian friends" of osetian people desided to help them to rebuild thier capitall by destroyng it with anyone who could not escape.<...>
SiD was so long and so much "economical with the truth" that he has now got tangled with his own "truths", and no wonder he can no longer remember his previous statements:
SiD Wrote:
Yalta1945 Wrote:Why do you not consider a possibility that the most gruesome damage to Tskhinvali and lives of people might have been brought about by the Russian counter-attack, by Russian airstrikes?
Our peacekeepers were ingaged into military action <...> Of course they missed georgian attack, but they have shown russian counter attack. And of course they cant sort out who ruined what.
[/quote]
It was posted on 28 Sep 2008 in Russia Exagerating Death Toll, and you can check it while it is not re-edited Wink
Must it be a "change of view"?

Yalta this
Yalta1945 Wrote:Our peacekeepers were ingaged into military action <...> Of course they missed georgian attack, but they have shown russian counter attack. And of course they cant sort out who ruined what.
was said about western media. It is common myth that Russian forces demaged Skchinvali while counter attack, not georgians ruined it. So i dont see how i changed my view.

SiD Wrote:Yalta this
Yalta1945 Wrote:Our peacekeepers were ingaged into military action <...> Of course they missed georgian attack, but they have shown russian counter attack. And of course they cant sort out who ruined what.
was said about western media. It is common myth that Russian forces demaged Skchinvali while counter attack, not georgians ruined it. So i dont see how i changed my view.
I have made analogies with the previous acts of Russia that should make us think it would be nothing new if the Russian military wrought more damage on Tskhinvali than the Georgian side.
I’d like also to add questions raised by another person (Aleksandre Ramishvili) on August 25th on the internet (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://lawiscool.com/2008/08/17/the-russia-georgia-war-and-the-international-law/">http://lawiscool.com/2008/08/17/the-rus ... ional-law/</a><!-- m -->) :
Can this be the scenario:
South Ossetian militaries under the Russian peacekeeping control had been bombing Georgian villages previous to the conflict. Georgian authorities several times announced this to Russia. On 7 august Georgian forces directed their artillery shelling to the points where the attacks had been coming from, i.e. Tskhinvali (it is absolutely possible to bomb Georgian troops from there) making the Russian party to the peacekeeping agreement in breach of it for failure to restrain the Ossetian militia. Casualties would definitely follow. Russia announced to defend its civilians after Georgian troops announced ceasefire for several hours to ensure the civilians were out of the war theatre. there was no civilians left in the city when Russia decided to defend them. and if there were why did they bombed the city after? So there can be points identified:1.The peacekeeping mandate became void for failure from Russian party to enforce it. 2. civilians were out of the war zone when Russia announced the necessity to defend them.3.Tskhinvali was under effective control of Georgia before the Russian offensive making it de facto Georgian territory(not to mention the de jure recognition of it as Georgian territory by Russia itself).

Just repeating “it’s myth, it’s myth, it’s myth” serves a bad argument.
But, Frankly, I don’t remember if Russia under Putin (and now Medvedev) has ever admitted any mistake.
Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum.

Yalta1945 Wrote:I have made analogies with the previous acts of Russia that should make us think it would be nothing new if the Russian military wrought more damage on Tskhinvali than the Georgian side.
I’d like also to add questions raised by another person (Aleksandre Ramishvili) on August 25th on the internet (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://lawiscool.com/2008/08/17/the-russia-georgia-war-and-the-international-law/">http://lawiscool.com/2008/08/17/the-rus ... ional-law/</a><!-- m -->) :
Can this be the scenario:
South Ossetian militaries under the Russian peacekeeping control had been bombing Georgian villages previous to the conflict. Georgian authorities several times announced this to Russia. On 7 august Georgian forces directed their artillery shelling to the points where the attacks had been coming from, i.e. Tskhinvali (it is absolutely possible to bomb Georgian troops from there) making the Russian party to the peacekeeping agreement in breach of it for failure to restrain the Ossetian militia. Casualties would definitely follow. Russia announced to defend its civilians after Georgian troops announced ceasefire for several hours to ensure the civilians were out of the war theatre. there was no civilians left in the city when Russia decided to defend them. and if there were why did they bombed the city after? So there can be points identified:1.The peacekeeping mandate became void for failure from Russian party to enforce it. 2. civilians were out of the war zone when Russia announced the necessity to defend them.3.Tskhinvali was under effective control of Georgia before the Russian offensive making it de facto Georgian territory(not to mention the de jure recognition of it as Georgian territory by Russia itself).

Just repeating “it’s myth, it’s myth, it’s myth” serves a bad argument.
But, Frankly, I don’t remember if Russia under Putin (and now Medvedev) has ever admitted any mistake.
Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum.

You know - indeed it doesn't matter. World is not about justice, it is not divided to right and wrong and
common sense is not valuated. Its all about money, power and selfishness. So don't take it too seriously. :nonnon

independent Wrote:
Yalta1945 Wrote:I have made analogies with the previous acts of Russia that should make us think it would be nothing new if the Russian military wrought more damage on Tskhinvali than the Georgian side.
I’d like also to add questions raised by another person (Aleksandre Ramishvili) on August 25th on the internet (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://lawiscool.com/2008/08/17/the-russia-georgia-war-and-the-international-law/">http://lawiscool.com/2008/08/17/the-rus ... ional-law/</a><!-- m -->) :
Can this be the scenario:
South Ossetian militaries under the Russian peacekeeping control had been bombing Georgian villages previous to the conflict. Georgian authorities several times announced this to Russia. On 7 august Georgian forces directed their artillery shelling to the points where the attacks had been coming from, i.e. Tskhinvali (it is absolutely possible to bomb Georgian troops from there) making the Russian party to the peacekeeping agreement in breach of it for failure to restrain the Ossetian militia. Casualties would definitely follow. Russia announced to defend its civilians after Georgian troops announced ceasefire for several hours to ensure the civilians were out of the war theatre. there was no civilians left in the city when Russia decided to defend them. and if there were why did they bombed the city after? So there can be points identified:1.The peacekeeping mandate became void for failure from Russian party to enforce it. 2. civilians were out of the war zone when Russia announced the necessity to defend them.3.Tskhinvali was under effective control of Georgia before the Russian offensive making it de facto Georgian territory(not to mention the de jure recognition of it as Georgian territory by Russia itself).

Just repeating “it’s myth, it’s myth, it’s myth” serves a bad argument.
But, Frankly, I don’t remember if Russia under Putin (and now Medvedev) has ever admitted any mistake.
Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum.

You know - indeed it doesn't matter. World is not about justice, it is not divided to right and wrong and
common sense is not valuated. Its all about money, power and selfishness. So don't take it too seriously. :nonnon
No, it is just what yellow press wants us to believe the world is about, because they capitalize on this belief.

Yalta1945 Wrote:No, it is just what yellow press wants us to believe the world is about, because they capitalize on this belief.

Majority has bought it - so I call it reality...

independent Wrote:
Yalta1945 Wrote:No, it is just what yellow press wants us to believe the world is about, because they capitalize on this belief.

Majority has bought it - so I call it reality...
Thanks, it just confirms the way I typify some persons on the forum:
Instead of taking thinking as a part of reality, they try to follow the line that the reality is what one thinks/believes.
I know this technique is used by brainwashers producing for the brainwashed the effect of self-fulfilling prophesy. But the brainwashers do not take it seriously themselves. God only know what they think. Maybe, they believe in no more than the formula that “means justify ends”. If you look at the history of the mankind openly, then you will discover it is the main menace to human beings.





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