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Should the Ukraine join NATO?
#26
An interesting NATO survey results report:
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#27
DId you know that the Ukrainian constitution states that the Ukraine is a neutral country. Some political circles considers the Ukraine's joining to NATO to be unconstitutional.
“The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.”
A really nice forum for Parisians
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#28
I wouldn't call the Ukraine a neutral country. It participates in the world's decision making process. Especially, in the last years they influence many decisions in the matter of Russia.
“The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.”
A really nice forum for Parisians
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#29
Ask Yourself first! Do we know that more then 70% Ukranian citizens have their relatives (mothers, sisters, brothers ) in Russia and vice versa? And imagine how it will be if Ukraine in NATO - one brother is NATO soldier and other in Russian army? And who of these two brothers will against his mother or father?
Ask Yourself second! Why Europe needs Ukraine in NATO? if Russia but NATO has already direct border contacts with Russia in Baltic Countries (not far from S.Petersbourg and Moscow). If Iran but NATO has good positions in Turkey and Azerbaidjan. May be americans who except of brains proсessing and oil drilling doesn't know geography and other countries history want to see Ukraine there?
Ask Yourself third! Imagine Ukraine became NATO member and put itself opposite to Russia. But Ukrain is historically young state. Exactly after this Poland, Romania and Hungaria will ask their lands back from western part of Ukraine. If so Russia exactly will ask back their historical lands of Eastern Ukrain and Cremean as well. And what will happened if some countries will get their lands back and other no?
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#30
Of course they should not. Who they need protection against? Terrorists? please, have you heard about treatening terrorist activity in Ukraine? In Russia we are wery concerned about NATO expansion. They talk about peace but treat is still there.
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#31
yea from terrorist... from russian goverment :evil: georgia was going to have MAP and u see whats happening in georgia so if they will get closer to nato i hope they will have a normal military... but russia will be more modest with them cause they are much more than 4 million(georgia)
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#32
tushimeomari Wrote:yea from terrorist... from russian goverment :evil: georgia was going to have MAP and u see whats happening in georgia so if they will get closer to nato i hope they will have a normal military... but russia will be more modest with them cause they are much more than 4 million(georgia)

They have almost half of thier country considering Russians thier brothers too. It is wery unclever (to say the least) to accept them in NATO. Russia is not a treat to any country that is respecting international laws and do not seek konfrontation with Russia.
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#33
LION Wrote:Terry,why is that you think that Russia doesn't care about Ucraine :lol: Actually russian authorities repeatedely said that if Ucraine joins Nato,they will consider this a threat to their national security.
Russia has a lot of resources and power,but still,it's not enough for them - they want to rule the region.


dear lion, dear terry

may be russia does not really care for Ukraine, but it surely is concerned about NATO. . . but, russia had it's interests in ukraine, when nato was not even planned to be founded.
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#34
Askyourself Wrote:Ask Yourself third! Imagine Ukraine became NATO member and put itself opposite to Russia. But Ukrain is historically young state. Exactly after this Poland, Romania and Hungaria will ask their lands back from western part of Ukraine. If so Russia exactly will ask back their historical lands of Eastern Ukrain and Cremean as well. And what will happened if some countries will get their lands back and other no?

Why do you think Romania, Poland and Hungary is gonna ask for their lands back if Ukraine joins NATO?
If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is "Probably because of something you did."

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#35
Given the current situation in Georgia, Ukraine shouldn't make a move, in order to tense the atmosphere.
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#36
There is more in that question than just Ukraine. Remember that there is LARGEST MILITARY ALLIENCE in the world coming to our gates. It is expanding dispite our warnings and our concerns. Ukraine and Georgia are points were it will be decided what Europe wants for Russia (US desires are obvius). Would it realy serve global security? Would the world be safer after that?
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#37
THE BEST DEFENSE FOR UKRAINE IS TO JOIN NATO, LIKE GEORGIA ,OR ITS VERY DENGEROUS FOR ALL OTHER WORLD, RUSSIA STILL LIVES IN SSSR AND THEY MAY TAKE BACK EX SOVIET UNION COUNTRIES, SO BE CAREFUL AND TAKE THIS TWO COUNTRY IN, OR YOU DON'T KNOW WhITE BEARS APPETITE !! BE CAREFUL EUROPE RUSSIA IS COMING... :evil:
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#38
NO way! 70% of Ukrainian dont wanna join NATO! Russia is our brother!
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#39
Definetely yes...
If they want to be free and apart from russia, then they not should, but must join NATO...
But its on them to decide and nobody can decide on their behalf..

We supprt Ukraine whatever decision they take..
This is madness!
Madness???
This is GEORGIAA!!!

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Я Грузин, И пусть навеки враг запомнит, Что лишь тогда встаем мы на колени, когда целуем Грузинский флаг...
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#40
NATO should not accept it to join.
There are ambitious politics willing to get popularity with demagogy - if only
backed up with NATO
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#41
IamGEORGIA Wrote:Definetely yes...
If they want to be free and apart from russia, then they not should, but must join NATO...
But its on them to decide and nobody can decide on their behalf..

We supprt Ukraine whatever decision they take..


do u really think that our president will listen to his people? huh? he never did and i reckon never will
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#42
maryusha Wrote:
IamGEORGIA Wrote:Definetely yes...
If they want to be free and apart from russia, then they not should, but must join NATO...
But its on them to decide and nobody can decide on their behalf..

We supprt Ukraine whatever decision they take..


do u really think that our president will listen to his people? huh? he never did and i reckon never will

I do not know..and its not my business..Smile
but we support your president, as a politician, because hi supports us..
That means than we support Ukrainians, and whataver they decide, its their choice..
but we will remaim to be freinds from now..
This is madness!
Madness???
This is GEORGIAA!!!

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Я Грузин, И пусть навеки враг запомнит, Что лишь тогда встаем мы на колени, когда целуем Грузинский флаг...
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#43
maryusha Wrote:NO way! 70% of Ukrainian dont wanna join NATO! Russia is our brother!

70% is a real reason for not doing this, at least because it's more than a half. The Ukrainian officials can't decide to join NATO without people's will.
“The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.”
A really nice forum for Parisians
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#44
Thats teh Russian Officials Opinion.

Ukraine cannot join Nato, as people do not support the idea.
With Georgia, the reasoning is changed - apparently Georgia cannot join Nato, because Tbilisi has disputed conflicts.

How can you change the reason from one country to the other?

In such case, my reasoning would be: Ukraine Can Join NATO as they dont have teritorial disputes, and Georgia can Join NATO as people expressed their willing to join the alliance.

Smile
"Europe should switch to nuclear and use the old gas pipes as sewers. The destination should be the Kremlin." @ a reader at timesonline.co.uk
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#45
And some hot news re subject :

Ukraine offers West radar warning
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Ukraine has said it is ready to make its missile early warning systems available to European nations following Russia's conflict with Georgia.

The foreign ministry said Moscow's abrogation earlier this year of an accord involving two tracking stations allowed it to co-operate with others.

President Viktor Yushchenko said his country could ensure its sovereignty only through collective security.

Last week, Kiev limited the freedom of movement of Russia's Black Sea Fleet.

The move came after several of the fleet's warships, based at Sevastopol in Ukraine's Crimea's peninsula, were deployed along the Georgian coastline.

Moscow denounced the restrictions as anti-Russian and said its military commanders would answer only to the Russian president.

'Unprecedented situation'

In a statement, Ukraine's foreign ministry said that because the country was no longer party to the 1992 agreement with Russia on the use of its radar stations, it could now "launch active co-operation with European nations".

This might include "the integration of Ukrainian elements of missile early warning and space control systems with those of foreign countries that are interested in gathering space data", it said.

Earlier this week, President Yushchenko issued a decree putting an end to Ukraine's participation in the accord in view of Russia's abrogation of it.

He said the situation was unprecedented and showed that his country could only ensure its national sovereignty through collective security.

Only that, he said, "could prevent any actions like those which occurred on 7-8 August at first in South Ossetia, and then in other regions of Georgia".

BBC diplomatic correspondent James Robbins says the decision is evidence Ukraine is now more desperate to embrace the West as its fear of Russia intensifies and Moscow seemingly becomes more determined to prevent any neighbouring states from joining Nato.

Russia clearly sees Nato as America's sphere of influence, despite US President George W Bush's insistence that it is a purely defensive alliance of sovereign democracies, our correspondent says.

Increasingly, the events of the past 10 days demonstrate Russia has gone back to arm-wrestling with its neighbours and the West after the immediate post-Soviet years, when it felt too weak, he adds.

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Russia has definitely LOST in Georgian Conflict, By significant margin.
"Europe should switch to nuclear and use the old gas pipes as sewers. The destination should be the Kremlin." @ a reader at timesonline.co.uk
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#46
Ukraine people will deside thier own destiny by themselves. But if Yshchenko will try to ignore his own people and try to use military FORCE to make them do what he wants he will end up like Saakashvilli.
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#47
SiD

I disagree.

Tell me what is the main criterium for a country to enter NATO - People's will?
"Europe should switch to nuclear and use the old gas pipes as sewers. The destination should be the Kremlin." @ a reader at timesonline.co.uk
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#48
Lenus Wrote:SiD

I disagree.

Tell me what is the main criterium for a country to enter NATO - People's will?

You want to say that peoples will is not a reason not to join NATO?
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#49
SiD Wrote:
Lenus Wrote:SiD

I disagree.

Tell me what is the main criterium for a country to enter NATO - People's will?

You want to say that peoples will is not a reason not to join NATO?

Smile I definetely dont.
But what is your opinion then, can Georgia Join Nato? (67% already voted for joining).
"Europe should switch to nuclear and use the old gas pipes as sewers. The destination should be the Kremlin." @ a reader at timesonline.co.uk
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#50
Lenus Wrote:
SiD Wrote:
Lenus Wrote:SiD

I disagree.

Tell me what is the main criterium for a country to enter NATO - People's will?

You want to say that peoples will is not a reason not to join NATO?

Smile I definetely dont.
But what is your opinion then, can Georgia Join Nato? (67% already voted for joining).


Juts little remark - 72 % as i remember..
(sorry for unterupting)
This is madness!
Madness???
This is GEORGIAA!!!

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Я Грузин, И пусть навеки враг запомнит, Что лишь тогда встаем мы на колени, когда целуем Грузинский флаг...
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