Kosovo's independence... - Printable Version +- Forums (https://eu-forums.com) +-- Forum: EU Forums (https://eu-forums.com/forum-19.html) +--- Forum: Hot Topics (https://eu-forums.com/forum-4.html) +--- Thread: Kosovo's independence... (/thread-1.html) |
Re: Kosovo's independence... - TEUTA - 03-05-2008 AuLoNa Wrote:Hmmm really? She is the best case here, really.. Re: Kosovo's independence... - TEUTA - 03-05-2008 Let's see little history.."albanian" towns in 17. century and turkish as oficiall language of 17-century "albanians" ..origin from where??? Quote:1670 Re: Kosovo's independence... - TEUTA - 03-05-2008 AuLoNa Wrote:The only 'authocton' language in Balcan is albanian language (and greek). It is spoken uninterrupted for at least 10000 years.100 000 years ,from ameba till now? Lets say 1 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years- sounds better. Present Albanians are not balcan nation at all.They came in 11 century, with byzantine army general Georgios Maniacos (from Sicily).Their language are most similar to chechen.. Some facts to concider: a)The Albanians were never mentioned in Byzantine, (not even of the works by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus), Arab, Armenian or any other texts before the 12th cent. b)Language: Albanian is classified as an IE language only because no one has been able to classify it into any other group, and this is because no one has yet studied all the Caucasus languages. Albanian might have IE sounding words, but its basic structure and syntax are more similar to Chechen and Udish than to any IE language. Many Albanian words do sound Indo- European, because Albanian has borrowed over 80% of its vocabulary, more than any other European language. The Chechen language is similar to Albanian. They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in Caucasus languages like Chechenian. The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar" or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR", "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". see: CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA c)Their alphabet interestingly enough, had Arabic letters untill 1908 when the alphabet they use today was adopted. d)The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Rumanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria. e)The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages. f)Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords. g)Just a few, of the many identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus: Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti (Turks and Balkan peoples call Albanians by this name; likely from arch. Turk: Arran) Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe) Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti Albo-Baka -Caucasus-Bako Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.) Albo-Demir Kapia - Caucasus-Demir Kapia (Turkish term: "iron gates"; term by which Turks refered to the Caspian Sea or arch: Albanian Sea) Albo-Kish, Kisha... - Caucasus-Kish (Eight different toponyms in Albania begin with "kish") Albo-Kurata,Kuratem,Kurateni(villages)-Caucasus-Kura (river) (Nine different toponyms in Albania begin with "Kura") Albo-Luginasi - Caucasus-Lugini Albo-Rusani - Caucasus-Rusian Albo-Sheshani, Shoshani, Shashani - Caucasus-Shashani Albo-Sheshaj, Sheshi - Caucasus-Sheshleti Albo-Skalla - Caucasus-Skaleri Albo-Shiptari Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi Albo-Shkoder - Caucasus-Shkeder, Shked, Shkoda Albo-Shekulli - Caucasus-Shekouli Albo-Skuraj - Caucasus-Skuria h) The fact that Albanian is totally alien to the Illyrian language based on the Messapic inscriptions found in tombs. So we must come to the conclusion that they either came from a different location (Caucasus theory) or the Illyrian tribes had absolutely NO ability of comunicating with eachother. (that does sound stupid don't you think?) i) The Illyrian city names mentioned in ancient times that were kept do not follow the Albanian sound change laws, suggesting that they were late borrowing from an intermediary language (most likely Romance or Slavic), rather than inherited (for example ancient Aulona should have been inherited in modern Albanian as Alor? instead of Vlore. j)Ptolemy in Book 5 chapter 15 titled "Location of Illyria or Liburnia, and of Dalmatia" (The Fifth Map of Europe) Never mentions the alleged "albanopolis" that they support he has, and can be found at 46 degrees and 41 degrees 45', but when you look up what he really has writen, you find the city of Thermidava Ptolemy's Goegraphy can be found at : penelope.uchicago.edu/Tha.../home.html k) Now, when we look at apostle Bartholomew's life, we find he labored in the area around the south end of the Caspian Sea, in the section that was then called Armenia. The modern name of the district where he died is Azerbaijan and the place of his death, called in New Testament times ALBANOPOLIS!!!, is now Derbend which is on the west coast of the Caspian Sea. l) Out of a list of 40-50 Illyrian city names known to us only 2-5 of the Albanian city names can be connected to them. m) There is NO MEMORY!!! of the Illyrian past in the Albanian cultural heritage. n) One of the interesting facts that connect the Albanians to the Caucasus and that they are not the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and Byzantine lands. o) Hard evidence is the Turkish censuses carried out in 1455, they indicate that Albanian names are found in only 80 of the 600 villages listed in the area, and that they did not constitute territorial groups, ruling out any assumptions that zones evenly and continuously inhabited by Albanians existed at the time. p) The first Albo dictionary was published in 1635 and contained only 5,000 words, when today any pocket dictionary contains at least 250.000 proving that their language was still under development. q) The most interesting fact is our knoledge of the Arab conquer of the Albanian Caucasus sometime around the 7th cent based on Byzantine, Arab and Armenian sources. They were converted to Islam and used as military troops to attack Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus. Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the yong Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgius Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercanaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers. Re: Kosovo's independence... - TEUTA - 03-05-2008 Only Chechen language is similar to Albanian. They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in Caucasus languages like Chechenian. examples: CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA Or what about the coincidense of many common place names:??? Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti (Turks and Balkan peoples call Albanians by this name; likely from arch. Turk: Arran) Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe) Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti Albo-Baka - Caucasus-Bako Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.) Albo-Demir Kapia - Caucasus-Demir Kapia (Turkish term: "iron gates"; term by which Turks refered to the Caspian Sea or arch: Albanian Sea) Albo-Kish, Kisha... - Caucasus-Kish (Eight different toponyms in Albania begin with "kish") Albo-Kurata,Kuratem,Kurateni(villages)-Caucasus-Kura (river) (Nine different toponyms in Albania begin with "Kura") Albo-Luginasi - Caucasus-Lugini Albo-Rusani - Caucasus-Rusian Albo-Sheshani, Shoshani, Shashani - Caucasus-Shashani Albo-Sheshaj, Sheshi - Caucasus-Sheshleti Albo-Skalla - Caucasus-Skaleri Albo-Shiptari Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi Albo-Shkoder - Caucasus-Shkeder, Shked, Shkoda Albo-Shekulli - Caucasus-Shekouli Albo-Skuraj - Caucasus-Skuria How about the fact that Albanian is totally alien to the Messapic words found from inscriptions?? (if any Albanian word is misspelled or wrongly translated correct me, I'm using an online translator) Illyrian-"alt"= (a stream) Albo -"LUMË, RRYMË, CURRIL, RRËKE, PËRRUA, NIVEL" Illyrian-"barba"= (a swamp) Albo -"MOÇAL" Illyrian-"bra"= (brother) Albo-VËLLA, SHOK Illyrian-"mag"= (great) Albo- FAMSHËM, KRYESOR, FISNIK, SHKËLQYER Illyrian-"brisa"= (grapes) Albo-RRUSH Illyrian-"metu"=(between) Albo-MES,NDËRMJET Illyrian-"oseriates"=(lake) Albo-LIQEN, PELLG Illyrian-"plo"=(strong) Albo-FORTË, THANTË Illyrian-"rinos"=(cloud) Albo-HIJE, RE, TUFË Illyrian-"sybina"=(a spear) Albo-SHTIZË Illyrian-"teuta"=(a tribe/people) Albo-FIS, KLAN/ POPULL, KOMBËSI, GJINDE Illyrian-"ves"=(kind) Albo-MIRË, DASHUR, SJELLSHËM Sources for the Illyrian words: 1. Neroznak, V. Paleo-Balkan languages. Moscow, 1978. 2. Katicic, R. Ancient Languages of the Balkans. The Hague, 1976. English-Albo translator: <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.foreignword.com">http://www.foreignword.com</a><!-- w --> Shall we continue? well why not??? The most important facts and considerations for determining the origin and original home of the Albanians are the following. 1. The Illyrian toponyms known from antiquity, e.g. Shköder from the ancient Scodra (Livius), Tomor from Tomarus (Strabo, Pliny, etc.), have not been directly inherited in Albanian: the contemporary forms of these names do not correspond to the phonetic laws of Albanian. The same also applies to the ancient toponyms of Latin origin in this region. 2. The most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Rumanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria. (this is from another theory that proves your origin to be somewhere in Carpathia) 3. The Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages. 4. Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords. 5. The Albanians are not mentioned before the 10th century a.d., although place names and personal names from the whole region of Albania are attested in numerous documents from the 4th century onwards. 6. The old home of the Albanians must have been near to that of the proto-Rumanians. The oldest Latin elements in Albanian come from proto-Rumanian, i.e. eastern Balkan Latin, and not from Dalmatian, western Balkan Latin that was spoken in Illyria. Cf. the phonetic development of the following words: Vulgar Latin caballum 'horse' Rum. cal, Alb. kal Vulgar Latin cubitum 'elbow' Rum. cot. Alb. kut Vulgar Latin lucta 'struggle, fight' Rum. lupt, Arum. luft, Alb. luftë (same theory mentioned) Sources : H. Kronasser, ‘Zum Stand der Illyristik’ (Linguistique Balkanique, IV, 1962, pp. 5 ff.); R. Katicic', 'Namengebiete im römischen Dalmatian" (Die Sprache, X, Vienna, 1964, pp. 23 ff.); id., Illyrii proprie dicti (iva Antika, Skopje, XIII/XIV, 1964, pp. 87 ff.); id., 'Suvremena istraivanja o jeziku starosjedilaca ilirskih provincija' (Nauno društvo SR Bosne i Hercegovine, IV, Sarajevo, 1964, pp. 9 ff.); G. Alföldy, 'Die Namengebung der Urbevölkerung der römischen Provinz Dalmatia’ (Beiträge zur Namenforschung, 15, Heidelberg, 1964, pp. 54 ff). Re: Kosovo's independence... - BG1 - 03-05-2008 Kosovo is Serbian, Macedonia is Bulgarian, Moldova is Romanian, Cyprus is Greek. Back off from the Balkans and stop creating duplicate states !!! Kurdistan has a right to exist, wyu the USA do not recognize it as Kurds are tens of millions and are being oppressed? Double Standards :?: Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 The Illyrians and Bosnia’s valley of Pyramids 12000 BC Semir Osmanagic believes Pyramid was made by the the Illyrian people, who inhabited the Balkan peninsula long before Slavic tribes conquered it around A.D. 600. Little is known about the Illyrians, but Osmanagic thinks they were more sophisticated than many experts have suggested. Illyria is a name that has been applied to the western part of the Balkan Peninsula but the origins of the Illyrians remain unclear. Archaeology has, though, been a little more helpful in explaining who the Illyrians were and ancient writings have provided clues as to their origins. It is understood that the Illyrians were a tribal people governed by chieftains, but the ancient written records tell little else of their culture, their language and their origins. Other research into ancient texts suggests evidence of an Illyrian migration from what is now present day Turkey. Albanian scholars and philologists alike contend that the meaning of the Illyrian name comes from the Albanian interpretation of the Illyrians, ‘Iliret’. The root in ‘Iliret is ‘i lir’ which simply means, ‘free’. Thus, the meaning of ‘Iliret’ is ‘freemen’ and the meaning of Illyria is ‘land of the free’. It appears that the Illyrians settled in the Balkan Peninsula at the end of the Bronze Age and the beginning of the Iron Age, sometime in the middle to late second millennium BC, although there is also evidence of artifacts resembling Illyrian types that date much earlier. The Illyrians were bearers of the Hallstatt culture - a period in history that denotes the transition from the use of bronze to iron in Central and Western Europe. Objects found in Illyrian burial places suggest more than average funeral rites; a known characteristic of the Hallstatt culture. Some other things are known about the life of Illyrians. Human sacrifice, for example, played a role in their ceremonies. The ancient historian, Arrian, records the Illyrian chieftain, Kleitus, sacrificing three boys, three girls and three rams just before his battle with Alexander the Great. Much of what we have learned about the Illyrians has come through archaeological exploration. The most common type of burial among the Illyrians was ‘tumulus’ or ‘mound’ burial. The kin of the first tumuli would be buried around that and the higher the status of those in these burials, the higher the mound. Archaeology has brought forth numerous artifacts placed within these tumuli such as weapons, ornaments, garments, and clay vessels – items needed for the journey into the Illyrian afterlife. Through archaeology, it is known that the Illyrians used many weapons and excavations have produced swords, javelins, battle-axes, bows and arrows as well as battle knives. When it came to defences, the Illyrian military equipped itself with wooden and leather shields that were embossed with metal. Their defences also included breastplates, helmets and leg protection, but those were probably reserved for the military elite. The geographical location of Illyria, deeply wooded and mountainous, made them a difficult race to conquer. The Illyrians, who were known to be a warlike people, were naturally incorporated into the Roman military and Illyricum itself became a leading recruiting grounds for Roman legions. The Romans even used the territory of Illyricum as a strategic defence because of its mountain ranges and valleys. In the late fourth century AD, when the Roman Empire became divided into the western and eastern empires, Illyricum would also be divided. The southern half of Illyricum was incorporated into the Byzantine, or Greek empire and northern Illyricum remained as part of the Roman, or Latin empire with the river Drin as the boundary between northern and southern Illyricum. The Illyrians in the highlands were not as Romanized as their lowland counterparts and some Illyrian highlanders would continue to reject Roman rule or ignore it altogether, such as the Albani tribe, or the Albanians as they are modernly known. The Roman geographer, Ptolemy, first records the Albani in the first century AD. Obviously, modern day Albania gets its name from them - although the Albani would soon be able to overthrow their Roman rulers. During the fifth century, Rome was overrun by the Visigoths - Germanic tribes who ransacked everything in their path, eventually capturing the western empire and ending Roman rule in 476. The Illyrians in the highlands were protected from these invaders and there was also little impact on the southern Illyrians, who were still under the protection of the Eastern empire. Later, however, the Slavic tribes - the Serbs, the Croats, and the Slovenes - conquered all of what was once Illyria proper. The inhabitants of Illyria then had to adapt to Slavic domination and culture. Thus, the Illyrians became thoroughly Slavonized and by the late ninth century AD, they disappeared into Slavic society all together except for the Albanians. As the last surviving tribe of the Illyrians, the Albanians have preserved a part of the Illyrian tongue and tradition that exists to this day. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 The Illyrians The origins of the Albanian people are not definitely known, but data drawn from history and from linguistic, archaeological, and anthropological studies have led to the conclusion that Albanians are the direct descendants of the ancient Illyrians and that the latter were natives of the lands they inhabited. Similarly, the Albanian language derives from the language of the Illyrians, the transition from Illyrian to Albanian apparently occurring between the 4th and 6th centuries AD. Illyrian culture is believed to have evolved from the Stone Age and to have manifested itself in the territory of Albania toward the beginning of the Bronze Age, about 2000 BC. The Illyrians were not a uniform body of people but a conglomeration of many tribes that inhabited the western part of the Balkans, from what is now Slovenia in the northwest to (and including) the region of Epirus, which extends about halfway down the mainland of modern Greece. In general, Illyrians in the highlands ofAlbania were more isolated than those in the lowlands, and their culture evolved more slowly--a distinction that persisted throughout Albania's history. In its beginning, the kingdom of Illyria comprised the actual territories of Dalmatia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, with a large part of modern Serbia. Shkodra (Scutari) was its capital, just as it is now, the most important center of Northern Albania. The earliest known king of Illyria was Hyllus (The Star) who is recorded to have died in the year 1225 B.C. The Kingdom, however, reached its zenith in the fourth century B.C. when Bardhylus (White Star), one of the most prominent of the Illyrian kings, united under scepter the kingdoms of Illyria, Molossia (Epirus*) and a good part of Macedonia. But its decay began underthe same ruler as a result of the attacks made on it by Philip of Macedon, father of Alexander the Great. In the year 232 B.C. the Illyrian throne was occupied by Teuta, the celebrated Queen whom historians have called Catherine the Great of Illyria. The depredations of her thriving navy on the rising commercial development of the Republic forced the Roman Senate to declare war against the Queen. A huge army and navy under the command of of Santumalus and Alvinus attacked Central Albania, and, after two years of protracted warfare, Teuta was induced for peace (227 B.C.) The last king of Illyria was Gentius, of pathetic memory. In 165 B.C. he was defeated by the Romans and brought to Rome as a captive. Henceforth, Illyria consisting of the Enkalayes, the Taulantes, the Epirotes, and the Ardianes, became a Roman dependency. She was carved out into three independent republics the capitals of which were respectively Scodar (Shkoder), Epidamnus (Durres) and Dulcigno (todays' Ulqin in Montenegro) Authors of antiquity relate that the Illyrians were a sociable and hospitable people, renowned for their daring and bravery at war. Illyrian women were fairly equal in status to the men, even to the point of becoming heads of tribal federations. In matters of religion, Illyrians were pagans who believed in an afterlife and buried their dead along with arms and various articles intended for personal use. The land of Illyria was rich in minerals--iron, copper, gold, silver--and Illyrians became skillful in the mining and processing of metals. They were highly skilled boat builders and sailors as well; indeed, their light, swift galleys known as liburnae were of such superior design that the Romans incorporated them into their own fleet as a type of warship called the Liburnian. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 The Greeks. From the 8th to the 6th century BC the Greeks founded a string of colonies on Illyrian soil. In the 3rd century BC the colonies began to decline and eventually perished. Roughly parallel with the rise of Greek colonies, Illyrian tribes began to evolve politically from relatively small and simple entities into larger and more complex ones. At first they formed temporary alliances with one another for defensivor offensive purposes, then federations and, still later, kingdoms. The most important of these kingdoms, which flourished from the 5th to the 2nd century BC, were those of the Enkalayes, the Taulantes, the Epirotes, and the Ardianes. After warring for the better part of the 4th century BC against the expansionisMacedonian state of Philip II and Alexander the Great, the Illyrians faced a greater threat from the growing power of the Romans. Seeing Illyrian territory as a bridgehead for conquests east of the Adriatic, Rome in 229 BC attackeand defeated the Illyrians, led by Queen Teuta, and by 168 BC establisheeffective control over Illyria. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 The Roman Empire. The Romans ruled Illyria--which now became the province of Illyricum--forabout six centuries. Under Roman rule Illyrian society underwent great change, especially in its outward, material aspect. Art and culture flourished, particularly in Apollonia, whose school of philosophy became celebrated in antiquity. To a great extent, though, the Illyrians resisted assimilation into Roman culture. Illyrian culture survived, along with the Illyrian tongue, though many Latin words entered the language and later became a part of the Albanian language. Christianity manifested itself in Illyria during Roma ruleabout the middle of the 1st century AD. At first the new religion had to compete with Oriental cults--among them that of Mithra, Persian god of light--which had entered the land in the wake of Illyria's growing interaction with eastern regions of the empire. For a long time it also had to compete with gods worshiped by Illyrian pagans. The steady growth of the Christian community in Dyrrhachium (the Roman name for Epidamnus) led to the creation there of a bishopric in AD 58. Later, episcopal seats were established in Apollonia, Buthrotum (modern Butrint), and Scodra (modern Shkodrë). By the time the empire began to decline, the Illyrians, profiting from a long tradition of martial habits and skills, had acquired great influence in the Roman military hierarchy. Indeed, several of them went on from there to become emperors. From the mid-3rd to the mid-4th century AD the reins of the empire were almost continuously in the hands of emperors of Illyrian origin: Gaius Decius, Claudius Gothicus, Aurelian, Probus, Diocletian, and Constantine the Great. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 The Byzantine Empire. From Illyria to Albania. When the Roman Empire divided into east and west in 395, the territories of modern Albania became part of the Byzantine Empire. As in the Roman Empire, some Illyrians rose to positions of eminence in the new empire. Three of the emperors who shaped the early history of Byzantium (reigning from 491 to 565) were of Illyrian origin: Anastasius I, Justin I, and--the most celebrated of Byzantine emperors--Justinian I. In the first decades under Byzantine rule (until 461), Illyria suffered the devastation of raids by Visigoths, Huns, and Ostrogoths. Not long after these barbarian invaders swept through the Balkans, the Slavs appeared. Between the 6th and 8th centuries they settled in Illyrian territories and proceeded to assimilate Illyrian tribes in much of what is now Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Serbia. The tribes of southern Illyria, however--including modern Albania--averted assimilation and preserved their native tongue. In the course of several centuries, under the impact of Roman, Byzantine, and Slavic cultures, the tribes of southern Illyria underwent a transformation, and a transition occurred from the old Illyrian population to a new Albanian one. As a consequence, from the 8th to the 11th century, the name Illyria gradually gave way to the name, first mentioned in the 2nd century AD by the geographer Ptolemy of Alexandria, of the Albanoi tribe, which inhabited what is now central Albania. From a single tribe the name spread to include the rest of the country as Arbri and, finally, Albania. The genesis of Albanian nationality apparently occurred at this time as the Albanian people became aware that they shared a common territory, name, language, and cultural heritage. (Scholars have not been able to determine the origin of Shqiperia, the Albanians' own name for their land, which is believed to have supplanted the name Albania during the 16th and 17th centuries. It probably was derived from shqipe, or "eagle," which, modified into shqipria, became "the land of the eagle.") Long before that event, Christianity had become the established religion in Albania, supplanting pagan polytheism and eclipsing for the most part the humanistic world outlook and institutions inherited from the Greek and Roman civilizations. But, though the country was in the fold of Byzantium, Albanian Christians remained under the jurisdiction of the Roman pope until 732. In that year the iconoclast Byzantine emperor Leo III, angered by Albanian archbishops because they had supported Rome in the Iconoclastic Controversy, detached the Albanian church from the Roman pope and placed it under the patriarch of Constantinople. When the Christian church split in 1054 between the East and Rome, southern Albania retained its tie to Constantinople while northern Albania reverted to the jurisdiction of Rome. This split in the Albaniachurch marked the first significant religious fragmentation of the country. Medieval culture. In the latter part of the Middle Ages, Albanian urban society reached a high point of development. Foreign commerce flourished to such an extent that leading Albanian merchants had their own agencies in Venice, Ragusa (modern Dubrovnik, Croatia), and Thessalonica (now Thessaloniki, Greece). The prosperity of the cities also stimulated the development of education and the arts. Albanian, however, was not the language used in schools, churches, and official government transactions. Instead, Greek and Latin, which had the powerful support of the state and the church, were the official languages of culture and literature. The new administrative system of the themes, or military provinces created by the Byzantine Empire, contributed to the eventual rise of feudalism in Albania, as peasant soldiers who served military lords became serfs on their landed estates. Among the leading families of the Albanian feudal nobility were the Thopias, Balshas, Shpatas, Muzakas, Aranitis, Dukagjinis, and Kastriotis. The first three of these rose to become rulers of principalities that were practically independent of Byzantium. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 The decline of Byzantium. Owing partly to the weakness of the Byzantine Empire, Albania, beginning in the 9th century, came under the domination, in whole or in part, of a succession of foreign powers: Bulgarians, Norman crusaders, the Angevins of southern Italy, Serbs, and Venetians. The final occupation of the country in 1347 by the Serbs, led by Stefan Dusan, caused massive migrations of Albanians abroad, especially to Greece and the Aegean islands. By the mid-14th century, Byzantine rule had come to an end in Albania, after nearly 1,000 years. A few decades later the country was confronted with a new threat, that of the Turks, who at this juncture were expanding their power in the Balkans. The Ottoman Turks invaded Albania in 1388 and completed the occupation of the country about four decades later (1430). But after 1443 an Albanian of military genius--Gjergj Kastrioti (1405-68), known as Skanderbeg--rallied the Albanian princes and succeeded in driving the occupiers out. For the next 25 years, operating out of his stronghold in the mountain town of Kruj, Skanderbeg frustrated every attempt by the Turks to regain Albania, which they envisioned as a springboard for the invasion of Italy and western Europe. His unequal fight against the mightiest power of the time won the esteem of Europe as well as some support in the form of money and military aid from Naples, the papacy, Venice, and Ragusa. After he died, Albanian resistance gradually collapsed, and many Albanians fled to Italy enabling the Turks to reoccupy the country by 1506. Skanderbeg's long struggle to keep Albania free became highly significant to the Albanian people, as it strengthened their solidarity, made them more conscious of their national identity, and served later as a great source of inspiration in their struggle for national unity, freedom, and independence. The Ottoman Empire. The nature of Turkish rule. The Turks established their dominion over Albania just as the Renaissance began to unfold in Europe, so that, cut off from contact and exchanges with western Europe, Albania had no chance to participate in, or benefit from, the humanistic achievements of that era. Conquest also caused great suffering and vast destruction of the country's economy, commerce, art, and culture. Moreover, to escape persecution by their conquerors, about one-fourth of the country's population fled abroad to southern Italy, Sicily, and the Dalmatian coast. Although the Turks ruled Albania for more than four centuries, they were unable to extend their authority throughout the country. In the highland regions Turkish authorities exercised only a formal sovereignty, as the highlanders refused to pay taxes, serve in the army, or surrender their arms--although they did pay an annual tribute to Constantinople. Albanians rose in rebellion time and again against Ottoman occupation. In order to check the ravages of Albanian resistance--which was partly motivated by religious feelings, namely, defense of the Christian faith--as well as to bring Albania spiritually closer to Turkey, the Ottomans initiated a systematic drive toward the end of the 16th century to Islamize the population. This drive continued through the following century, by the end of which two-thirds of the people had converted to Islam. A major reason Albanians became Muslims was to escape Turkish violence and exploitation, an instance of which was a crushing tax that Christians would have to pay if they refused to convert. Islamization aggravated the religious fragmentation of Albanian society, which had first appeared in the Middle Ages and which was later used by Constantinople and Albania's neighbours in attempts to divide and denationalize the Albanian people. Hence leaders of the Albanian national movement in the 19th century used the rallying cry "The religion of Albanians is Albanianism" in order to overcome religious divisions and foster national unity. The basis of Ottoman rule in Albania was a feudalmilitary system of landed estates, called timars, which were awarded to military lords for loyalty and service to the empire. As Ottoman power began to decline in the 18th century, the central authority of the empire in Albania gave way to the local authority of autonomy-minded lords. The most successful of these lords were three generations of pashas of the Bushati family, who dominated most of northern Albania from 1757 to 1831, and Ali Pasa Tepelen of Janina (now Ionnina, Greece), a colourful Oriental-type despot who ruled over southern Albania and northern Greece from 1788 to 1822. These pashas created separate states within the Ottoman state until they were overthrown by the sultan. After the fall of the pashas, in 1831 Turkey officially abolished the timar system. In the wake of its collapse, economic and social power passed from the feudal lords to private landowning beys and, in the northern highlands, to tribal chieftains called bajraktars, who presided over given territories with rigid patriarchal societies that were often torn by blood feuds. Peasants who were formerly serfs now worked on the estates of the beys as tenant farmers. Ottoman rule in Albania remained backward and oppressive to the end. In these circumstances, many Albanians went abroad in search of careers and advancement within the empire, and an unusually large number of them, in proportion to Albania's population, rose to positions of prominence as government and military leaders. More than two dozen grand viziers (similar to prime ministers) of Turkey were of Albanian origin. By the mid-19th century Turkey was in the throes of the "Eastern Question," as the peoples of the Balkans, including Albanians, sought to realize their national aspirations. To defend and promote their national interests, Albanians met in Prizren, a town in Kosovo, in 1878 and founded the Albanian League. The league had two main goals, one political and the other cultural. First, it strove (unsuccessfully) to unify all Albanian territories--at the time divided among the four vilayets, or provinces, of Kosovo, Shkodr, Monastir, and Janina--into one autonomous state within the framework of the Ottoman Empire. Second, it spearheaded a movement to develop Albanian language, literature, education, and culture. In line with the second program, in 1908 Albanian leaders met in the town of Monastir (now Bitola, Macedonia) and adopted a national alphabet. Based mostly on the Latin script, this supplanted several other alphabets, including Arabic and Greek, that were in use until then. The Albanian League was suppressed by the Turks in 1881, in part because they were alarmed by its strong nationalistic orientation. By then, however, the league had become a powerful symbol of Albania's national awakening, and its ideas and objectives fueled the drive that culminated later in national independence. When the Young Turks, who seized power in Istanbul in 1908, ignored their commitments to Albanians to institute democratic reforms and to grant autonomy, Albanians embarked on an armed struggle, which, at the end of three years (1910-12), forced the Turks to agree, in effect, to grant their demands. Alarmed at the prospect of Albanian autonomy, Albania's Balkan neighbours, who had already made plans to partition the region, declared war on Turkey in October 1912, and Greek, Serbian, and Montenegrin armies advanced into Albanian territories. To prevent the annihilation of the country, Albanian national delegates met at a congress in Vlorë. They were led by Ismail Qemal, an Albanian who had held several high positions in the Ottoman government. On Nov. 28, 1912, the congress issued the Vlorë proclamation, which declared Albania's independence. Shortly after the defeat of Turkey by the Balkan allies, a conference of ambassadors of the Great Powers (Britain, Germany, Russia, Austria-Hungary, France, and Italy) convened in London in December 1912 to settle the outstanding issues raised by the conflict. With support given to the Albanians by Austria-Hungary and Italy, the conference agreed to create an independent state of Albania. But, in drawing the borders of the new state, owing to strong pressure from Albania's neighbours, the Great Powers largely ignored demographic realities and ceded the vast region of Kosovo to Serbia, while, in the south, Greece was given the greater part of Çamria, a part of the old region of Epirus centred on the Thamis River. Many observers doubted whether the new state would be viable with about one-half of Albanian lands and population left outside its borders, especially since these lands were the most productive in food grains and livestock. On the other hand, a small community of about 35,000 ethnic Greeks was included within Albania's borders. (However, Greece, which counted all Albanians of the Orthodox faith--20 percent of the population--as Greeks, claimed that the number of ethnic Greeks was considerably larger.) Thereafter, Kosovo and the Çamria remained troublesome issues in Albanian-Greek and Albanian-Yugoslav relations. The Great Powers also appointed a German prince, Wilhelm zu Wied, as ruler of Albania. Wilhelm arrived in Albania in March 1914, but his unfamiliarity with Albania and its problems, compounded by complications arising from the outbreak of World War I, led him to depart from Albania six months later. The war plunged the country into a new crisis, as the armies of Austria-Hungary, France, Italy, Greece, Montenegro, and Serbia invaded and occupied it. Left without any political leadership or authority, the country was in chaos, and its very fate hung in the balance. At the Paris Peace Conference after the war, the extinction of Albania was averted largely through the efforts of U.S. President Woodrow Wilson, who vetoed a plan by Britain, France, and Italy to partition Albania among its neighbours. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 LANGUAGES ... I The Illyrian Language It is the purpose of this writing to inspire thought; to enlighten the people of the Illyrian (Albanian) heritage; to help the Jews understand the ancient roots of their religion and hopefully enlighten the peoples of Christianity and Islam as well by placing in proper perspective these monotheistic (one God) religions within the context of the evolution of man. Prehistoric man created the ideas, names of the gods and religious stories through his perceptions and understandings of the natural surroundings. It is the Illyrian (Albanian) language that appears to translate this phenomenon. This attempt may help to reconcile Darwin's Theory of Evolution of 1859 with the creationist idea of a beginning that took place some 5764 years ago. As Darwin's theory might be referred to as the 'language of nature', the Illyrian (Albanian) language could be referred to as the 'language of god'. This may all have become possible because the 'Greek code' had been deciphered when parts of Hesiod's 'Theogony' (Genesis of the Gods)c. 700 B.C., was analyzed and placed within an Illyrian (Albanian) context in 1980, using the Albanian language as the tool in gaining a new insight into his work. Hesiod was a Greek farmer/shepard turned poet. Albanian is the oldest language in Europe and by some accounts has been compared to Etruscan (Z. Mayani, 'Etruscans Begin to Speak'). The Albanian alphabet was not developed until 1878 and the majority of the population was illiterate as recent as 1945. The Albanians are considered the descendents of the Illyrians. There is little record of the Illyrian civilization as they supposedly left no writings, a fact that I find increasingly hard to believe. The Greeks were the scribes for the translations of the books of the Bible from Hebrew to Greek. They may have been the unknowing scribes for some of the Illyrian history though it appears they did not understand the stories past on to them by the Illyrian people. 'From what parents the gods are derived or whether they were in existence from all time, and what they are like in shape, the Greeks do not know till this day when I write these lines' says Herodotus, Greek historian (c. 485-425 B.C.) (Book II, 53). It should be noted that the translation of the Bible, wherein the monotheistic concept was introduced to the western world, had been completed during the beginning of the first millenium. While this translation process was taking place the Alexandria (Egypt) Library was destroyed. It was said that this library contained the story of mankind. It should have been the wonder of the ages how the Greeks could have been the scribes of both the early Illyrian vocal histories and have understood none of it, as has been proven with the analysis of Hesiod's work, and some centuries later became the translators for one of the most important religious documents, the Bible, yet understood little of the roots of the evolution of religion in their world. Maybe now that we might begin to recognize that there is a 'language of god', a language that gave translation to the evolution of religion that we know in our world, we can begin to view this evolution with a clearer perspective. II An Illyrian World It is my contention that long before the 'beginning of the world' as expressed in Genesis, the first book of the Bible, there was an Illyrian world in the prehistoric era. It was one that had great religious influence over the Mediterranean world and the areas of the regions known as the Middle East and northern Africa. Though some of this Illyrian influence may have been lost to the Jews in their early culture it is probable that the teachers of Abraham, the Patriarch of the Jews, were aware of it. The concepts of 'west' and 'ancestors' were important parts of the prehistoric cultures in the ancient world. In Albanian the word 'perendim' translates to 'west'. The word 'Perendia' translates to 'God' or 'god-like'. In Albanian the words 'ze fare' translates to 'the voice (or message) of the ancestors'. The Greek name for 'west wind' was 'zephyr' which probably derives from the Albanian word 'ancestors'. Some European scholars have tried to find the key to the Illyrians because they sensed that it might have been a missing link to understanding the religious evolution in the western world. They were unsuccessful in finding this Illyrian world, and it appears that they could not imagine a wider implication. A reasoning process may enlighten us - help us to understand the religious and spiritual phenomenon in nature that enlightened prehistoric man. It seems to have been lost almost from the beginning of the historic era and became more political in its evolution. III The Concepts: Ou, Ra, and Tos In Greek, Ouranos was considered the first god, the god of heaven. If one were to separate the name 'Ouranos', to 'Ou' 'ra', it would translate into Albanian 'I' 'fell'. 'Ou' survives in Albanian as the personal pronoun 'I'. It was my contention that 'Ou' was the name of the first god in the line of succession of gods. Imagine yourself as a cave-dweller living many thousands of years ago. When you stand on the earth and view the earth and sky, does not the sky appear to fall to the earth in every direction you view? You do not have the understanding that the world is round. It appears that a dome forms over the earth. Hesiod states: "And Earth first bare starry Heaven, equal to herself, to cover (extend over) her on every side,..." (c.700 B.C.) It is my contention that this concept, the sky appearing to fall to earth, may have been the most significant to the people of the prehistoric era when their religious ideas were evolving. As a result, the 'ra' expressing this understanding, found its way throughout the cultures of the Middle East and North Africa over hundreds, maybe even thousands of years, in the prehistoric era. We see the word in the name Mediterranean. In Albanian that would translate as 'with the falling day'. Of course this analysis has never been made because the scholars could only see 'Latin'. This has been true with many analyses of the ancient world, the scholars see 'Latin' or 'Greek', or 'Hebrew' then fit a reasoning process to it. Of course, to some extent, I do the same with Illyrian (Albanian) but there is one difference - the Illyrian language is coincident with ideas that are better explained by the 'view' in prehistoric man's world, the evolutionary timetable within which he lived, than any subsequent document left behind by man. One point should be made clear with regard to the first god. This should not be confused with the idea of a supreme god within the Illyrian scheme. The supreme god to most people of the prehistoric world was the Mother-Earth. In some cultures she survived the prehistoric world and it is a familiar concept in recorded history. The concept 'Tos' ... When Hesiod was describing the beginning of the world he mentions that in the beginning there was 'Chaos' an emptiness or a state of disorder. And next was formed 'Ge', the earth... In Albanian there are four principal divisions of people that have emerged from an unrecorded past. The four divisions include the tribes Geg, located north of the Shkumbini River in central Albania (the ancient name of the river was Genusus; 'north' in Albanian 'veri' translates to 'the place of the egg'; 'Shkumbe' in Albanian translates to 'foam', and the oldest story of Aphrodite is of a foam birth, though the Greek version of that birth is not coincident with any Illyrian understanding). To the south of the river were the Tosk, Lab and Cham. With regard to Hesiod's first two names 'chaos' and 'ge', my thought was that they represented two of the four Albanian divisions. I did not allow the dialect of 'Kaos' to dissuade my observation from the Albanian 'Cha'. (The discussion and subsequent persuasion in this writer's book 'Oh Albania, My Poor Albania' satisfied many doubts as to the possible validity since it resulted in the breaking of the 'Greek code' and made many new analyses of the prehistoric world possible. In fact it was a factor in solving the 'mystery' of the Illyrian world.) My conclusion had been that if the 'Ge' was the mother, in the north, the place of the egg, then the 'Tos' might be the father in this scheme - something that had eluded the Greeks. In Albanian the word 'tos' refers to 'pluhur' which translated to mean 'dust'. The Albanian word 'plehu' translates as 'fertilize'. My thought was that the moisture or perhaps the drizzle of rain in the air on a moonlit night might have been likened to the dust-like appearance one might see in the air during daylight. The prehistoric peoples may have equated this 'dust' as a 'fertilizing' of Mother Earth - not in the factual scientific terms we know today, but in some reasoning that they could comprehend in their time. It is my belief that the 'tos' was synonymous with the concept of 'fertilization'. IV The Names: 'Torah', 'Ur' The Torah is one of the most important documents in Jewish culture. It may be said that the Torah is the whole body of Jewish religious literature including the Scriptures (the Bible). More specifically the Torah is considered the first five books of the Old Testament of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Levitus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. In the Jewish tradition, it is the introduction of the 'One God' to the Jewish people, and subsequently to a large part of the human race represented by the people of Christianity and the people of Islam. Abraham was the founder of Judaism, the first great patriarch who introduced the concept of monotheism - the doctrine in the belief that there is only one God. He was born in Ur, a place in Iraq. Quite simply it is my contention that the 'To' in 'Torah' represents the 'fertilization', and the 'rah', that which 'fell to earth', or the 'fatherhood which fell to earth'. This is what I believe to be the etymology - the origin and prehistorical development of this name. And it is quite fitting, and no wonder, that the patriarch and founder of this 'One God' concept should be born in a place called 'Ur', a name that I believe developed from the Illyrian concept 'Ou' 'Ra'... Albania, including Kosova, should be viewed not only as a nation that had been established in 1912, (KosovA was stolen from Albania by the Great Powers of early 20th century Europe and pillaged by neighbors) but also a culture, a living, breathing heritage for many thousands of years despite the lack of an alphabet until 1878 and an illiterate population as recent as 1945. There are prehistoric concepts within this heritage that can be the only source of explanation for the origin of religious ideas and tradition that exist in many cultures with regard to the 'west' and 'ancestoral reverence'. And it becomes apparent that the ideas pre-date any recorded civilization's claim to antiquity by the very nature of its preservation - they can be found, even though lost for thousands of years, not through documents, not by investigating pottery or other artifacts, but through a reasoning process that applies the Albanian language to the same natural surroundings that were readily available to prehistoric man as it is to ourselves today. It is important to understand that the Illyrian (Albanian) and Jewish peoples at one time lived in a prehistoric world, one culture subsequently left writings, one supposedly did not; one culture lost some of the understandings of that world, the other culture remained a mystery for thousands of years until 1980. In Albanian 'Genusus' would translate to 'Mother Earth as a bride'. 'Nuse' translates to 'bride'... It is most probable the origin of the Greek word 'Genesis', 'the beginning', derives from this concept. In Albanian the word 'dhenderr' translates to 'groom'. 'Dhe' translates to 'earth', and 'nderr' translates 'to extend' or 'spread over'. From Homeric Hymn, c.800 B.C.: 'Hail Mother of the gods, wife of starry Heaven'. From Hesiod, c.700 B.C.: 'And earth first bare starry Heaven, equal to herself, to cover (extend over) her on every side..." V The Bridge to the Blessed Father Thousands of years have passed without the benefit of insight into the prehistoric Illyrian world, without an awareness that there was and still is a 'language of god'. It is a 'language' which may help man to understand the prehistoric evolution of the religious and spiritual phenomenon that rooted in that era and in some aspects survived in the world we know today. It is a 'language' which might answer questions that can help man to better understand his world, his religion. The reader must recognize that we live in a very dangerous world where technology has given humanity some very unforgiving powers. The Illyrian (Albanian) language might teach something. Hopefully it can be the catalyst which could take us from Day One of the evolutionary process to Day Two. It is a new awareness of an old phenomenon. If one were to point to the place where the heaven meets the earth and follow the path of the sun overhead and toward the west, an imaginary bridge would be drawn. In Albanian 'ura' translates to 'bridge'. 'Urat' translates to 'the blessed father'. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 Now to answer your question about Illyrian-Albanian correlation: 1. The national name Albania is the name Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by the geographer Ptolemy of Alexandria. 2. The Albanoi territory then centered at Albonopoli between Durres and Kruja, the heartland of modern Albania. 3. Four peoples speaking their own languages lived in the Balkans in ancient times: the Greeks in the south, the Macedonians in the center, the Thracians in the east and the Illyrians in the west. Today Albanian is spoken in most of the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times. 4. Those few language elements which are known as Illyrian can be explained through the Albanian language, and no other. 5. A linguistic comparison of Albanian with ancient Greek and Latin indicates that Albanian was formed as a language at an earlier period than those other ancient languages. 6. Archeological and historical data witness to the cultural continuity from the Illyrians to the Albanians. Continual contact with other peoples and languages has left its traces in the Albanian vocabulary. Foreign words have been borrowed from Greek, Latin, Slavic, and Turkish, yet Albanian has been preserved as a separate language, its grammatical system remaining virtually unchanged. 7. Linguists point out many technical similarities between Illyrian and Albanian words. 8. Borrowings from northern Greek and from Latin incorporated in the Albanian language reflect the well-known political and cultural pressures on Illyrian territory. Linguistic studies indicate that Albanian developed from Illyrian as a distinct language between the 4th and 6th centuries A.D. Thus ancient borrowings of Greek and Latin vocabulary could not have moved directly into Albanian, but into Illyrian, through which these words entered into Albanian. Historical linguists point out that these borrowings from ancient Greek were in the Dorian dialect and penetrated into Illyrian through Corinthian commercial colonies in Corfu, along the Adriatic coast, and through border towns. Latin borrowings come later during the lengthy Roman occupation. These ancient Greek and Roman contacts occurred precisely in the territory of old Illyria, leaving their traces in the Illyrian language from which they later passed into the Albanian language. 9. Illyrian toponyms, ancient Illyrian place names for cities, rivers and mountains, are preserved today in the Albanian language, and only in Albanian. The names of Balkan villages usually lasted only a few centuries, for villages were often destroyed altogether during wartime. Cities lasted longer, so their names were usually older. Albanian linguists have found more than 300 names of ancient cities like Shkodra, rivers like the Drin and mountains like Tomor which were mentioned by ancient Greek and Roman geographers or historians and which are still in use in Albania. Scholars show how the rules of historical phonetics explain any changes of spelling over the centuries from Illyrian to Albanian, as Scupi to Shkup, Drinus to Drin, Mathis to Mat. Certainly the Albanian language is derived from the Illyrian. 10. Illyrian proper names continue in use among present-day Albanians. Many of the individual Illyrian names of persons were preserved on epitaphs and inscriptions on coins. Then the names of other people like the Illyrian rulers Agron and Teuta were mentioned by Greek or Roman historians. The Albanian scholar Mahri Domi claims to have identified 800 of these. 11. The numerous marine terms for sea plants and animals in the Albanian language show that these people lived along the coast on what would correspond with Illyrian territory. 12. Then there are other words in Albanian which Greek or Roman writers long ago explicitly identified as Illyrian in origin. Re: Kosovo's independence... - avlona - 03-05-2008 This stele is 2300 year old, found in epirus albania, its pure albanian. The first word means DIELLI which means 'the sun'. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 Friday, February 29, 2008 Kosovo: Time For Serbia To Wake Up By Gordana Knezevic Kosovo -- An ethnic Serb waves the Serbian flag during a demonstration of about a hundred Serbs at Mitrovica bridge, 17Feb2008 Serbs protesting in Mitrovica (AFP) Last week's pictures from Belgrade were ugly. Broken windows in the city center, the burned flags of foreign embassies, and thinly veiled justifications of the violence by Serbian officials. A government minister, Velimir Ilic, went so far to say that violence against foreign embassies was the appropriate answer to the "violence" committed against Serbia by taking away its province. However, Kosovo left Serbia a long time ago. Most Serbs did not notice that departure, since Kosovo was not present in their conscience as a place to visit or, God forbid, a place to move to with a business or the family. Despite this ignorance of the real Kosovo, the former Serbian province plays a key role in Serbian identity -- an identity that is very much shaped by the idea that Serbs have always been victims, throughout history. In the hands of local politicians, Kosovo is inevitably mentioned as a symbol of a great loss, producing an instant image of a battle against the Turks -- a battle that took place 600 years ago. It has always been packaged as an event that took place yesterday (or might as well have), and conversely, what happened as recently as yesterday is somehow directly related to that medieval battle. The myth of Kosovo, as an integral part of Serbian identity, was created and cemented by Serbian writers, poets, politicians, and academics. If Serbs happened to disagree on other issues, Kosovo would always be their common ground, their rallying point. A romantic picture of Serbs as both heroes and victims at the hands of brutal Ottoman Turks would suspend all disputes and produce an idyllic picture of national unity. In other countries, politicians have to work hard and come up with good ideas and policies in order to get reelected. In Serbia, it was always enough to just mention Kosovo and to have the entire nation clapping hands. But what Serbs want to have is not Kosovo as it is, inhabited by an ethnic-Albanian majority. It is Kosovo as it was a few centuries ago, inhabited by Serbs. Or, in the face of the demographic reality, inhabited by whomever, but run by the Serbs. Selective Curfew In 1981, as a young journalist, I was sent to Kosovo in the aftermath of large student demonstrations that took place a year after Tito's death. The demonstrations were brutally suppressed by the Yugoslav Army. By the time I arrived in Pristina, hundreds of Albanians had been imprisoned, special police units from all over Yugoslavia had been deployed in the streets of the Kosovo capital, and a curfew was in force after 8 p.m. Apart from me, two other journalists from Zagreb and Ljubljana were the only guests at the Grand Hotel, run by the Serbian secret police. It was rather unpleasant to have to listen to the frequently drunk policemen singing at the hotel bar every evening. We felt that we were trapped in that place as a result of the curfew. After many boring and uneventful nights at the hotel, we decided to test the curfew and to leave the building long after 8 p.m. Thus the three of us started our dangerous walk through the empty streets of a city that had not yet recovered from the violent demonstrations and the brutal army action. Without ever being stopped or asked for any ID, we spent most of the night moving from one bar and restaurant to another. The only obvious conclusion was that the curfew was only in force for Albanians, and that each and every police officer in Pristina was aware of the three journalists from outside, so they didn't even ask for our identification. Humiliation and torture by the police were meant for Albanians only. We left Kosovo with the bitter taste of injustice and oppression against the Kosovar Albanians. Even in those fractious times, most Albanians thought of themselves as Albanians as well as Yugoslavs -- and they did not feel any necessary contradiction between those two identities. Once Yugoslavia ceased to exist, however, they couldn't possibly declare themselves to be Albanians and Serbs, since in that case one clearly excluded the other. No Serbian policeman or army officer has been allowed in Kosovo since 1999. The terrible crimes committed by Serbs in Kosovo before the NATO intervention were hardly an invitation for Albanians to remain inside the borders of Serbia. Breakup was imminent, and it was not a question of whether it would happen, but when the separation would take place. Even as Serbian officials extended the talks about Kosovo's future, they continued to advance only legal arguments, and never expressed any desire to share a country with Albanians. They wanted only a piece of paper that would give them ownership of Kosovo. A Serbian historian from the beginning of the last century once said that the Serbs would "grow up" as a nation only once they realize that Albanians are human. It is time for Serbs to grow up. (Gordana Knezevic is the director of RFE/RL's South Slavic and Albanian Languages Service.) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rferl.com/featuresarticle/2008/02/943ed01b-c809-4ca5-a92c-452ed441c08c.html">http://www.rferl.com/featuresarticle/20 ... 1c08c.html</a><!-- m --> Re: Kosovo's independence... - niko - 03-05-2008 BelgradeBoy Wrote:Jovan82 Wrote:Kosovo and Metohija is part of Serbia since 9 century.Well Jovan I'm ashamed of you and all serbian chetnik's. Please let Kosovo go and take look into our yard is fully with sh... If you think just like that you can get OUT one nation than this is not only stupid but is damnific and harmful for us serbians too. Please don't count on me to follow the stupid primeminister Kostunica and war criminals like Seselj & co. I'm pride to be serbian but i dont know how long will last this if you continue in this way.... You are not Serbian, and it would be better to go to Alona and take drugs together, because she has good stuff , see how she is so high. Re: Kosovo's independence... - Ventimille - 03-05-2008 @Aulona I could easily copy paste the articles and photographs showing Serbs suffering by Albanians, but what does it prove? I'd appreciate more if u write down YOUR thoughts, feelings, comments, your own opinions, not just mechanical copy pasting 20000 articles, cause we all can do that. And believe me, there r also many many articles showing Albaninas as bad guys, doing ethnic cleansing over Serbs, doing classical terrorism, mafia stuff and other. Moreover, do u really expect anyone to read all that text u copied and pasted? I wish u can stop with that silly propaganda (it reminds me of Miloshevic's methods during 90's). And please stop spreading hatred for Serbia, if possible. As long as u r that bitter and full of hatred I don't think it's possible to have a rational conversation with u, 'cause u never say anything, just copy-paste. We all can copy paste, but where's conversation than? Re: Kosovo's independence... - Ventimille - 03-05-2008 OK, as for Kosovo's independence, I wanna say I'm not in favor. Mainly because this is an illegal partition of Serbia, without any doubts. EU simply trampled on UN Charter and other international treaties, so why do we have all those lows than? What for? I feel like no matter how valid Serbia's arguments are (and this is actually some of the rare cases that Serbia has right over something), nobody cares about it and nobody shows any respect for it. How I see the whole situation: several months/years from now on...EU will be forced to deal the reality that no self-respecting country would willingly accept loss of part of its territory through an illegality. With all due respect, there can't be stability or peace if one ethnic group (Albanians) is encouraged and got everything they asked for and the other group (Serbs) lost everything and pushed behind. This unilateral declaration of independence is far from being fair, moral or democratic. At the end, negotiations will have to be continued, but the fair negotiations. Until now, Serbs constantly had been asked to reach out and offer the independence, which is simply unbelievable. I'm amazed how many countries in Europe misses the whole point or ignore the problem. Everyone happy? Well, not really... And one more thing, I haven't read all the posts in this forum, it would take too much time. I just wanted to write down my opinion, so... if anyone got annoyed or insulted by my comment, I apologize. I would also like to ask kindly other people to write without insulting others, without (ultra) nationalistic and barbarian vocabulary, in atmosphere of tolerance and respect for all. Please avoid fights, just real arguments and tolerance. Re: Kosovo's independence... - oesophagus - 03-05-2008 In my humble opinion as ex KFOR solider, I think that Serbs and Albanians are right and wrong at the same time about Kosovo. There is a lot of B... S... about this subject, a lot of albanian and serbian propaganda. Thing that i know, things are not black and white in this matter and that we came to Kosovo to save ethnic albanian population from raging serbs, and we ended saving serbs from albanians. I also noticed there some interesting (to me) facts: Oldest buidings on kosovo are serbian fortresses and churches from 9 th century, and albanian have 300 yrs old mosques. Albanians are large ethnic majority and serbs are minority. About time of 1st WW (1914) and serbs and albanians was 50 % of Kosovos population, and had good relations. Average albanian family have 4 or 5 children, and serb family has one or 2 children. Serbs are afraid of albanians, albanians are not afraid of serbs. Serbs familyes mostly are poor and live in small and old houses, and albanians are not so, and live in bigger houses. Older serbians and older albanians live together and help each other, at the same time young serbs and albanians hate each other. Most of populated places in Kosovo with ethnicly clean albanian population have serbian origin names, and old and half ruined serbian graveyards in centre. Word "Kosovo" on serbian means hills with tall grass, on albanian language means nothing. And at the end I think that real bad guys in this sad story are US and EU administration. Instead to help them to find some acceptable solution for problem they decided to take one side in this conflict. Kososvo's independence is triumph of our force and clumsiness over justice, another big explosive mess up, just hidden under the carpet. Re: Kosovo's independence... - TEUTA - 03-05-2008 Ausgabe 25/07The Kosovo on the way into independence Constitutional state? Rather not! Of Juergen Roth The Kosovo is on the way into independence, which cannot please three leaders of the country. The world week is present a secret paper, which occupies, how the Politgroessen dominates the organized crime. They found support for their mafioesen business also in Switzerland. If the negotiations begin shortly over the international-law status of the Kosovo, the most burning problem will not be topic: the connection between political decision makers and powerful criminal clan in the Serbian province, which is administered since 1999 by the UN. So three of the most important kosovo Albanian politicians are deeply into the organized criminality complicated, in particular into drug smuggling. That can be done out out of top secret documents of the German Federal Information Service (Federal Intelligence Service), the UN and the international colonial force Kfor, which is present the world week. In these documents in particular Ramush Haradinaj, which was until March an Prime Minister, become heavily loaded Hashim Thaci, which lead today the democratic party of the Kosovo, and Xhavit Haliti, which sits in the presidency of the parliament. Pikant: Thaci will participate as a member of the kosovo Albanian delegation with the status negotiations. All three made career in the UCK, the Kosovo Befreiungsarmee, lived long years in Switzerland and maintain still today personal or business relations with our country. In for 67 sides a strong analysis Federal Intelligence Service over the organized criminality (OK ONE) in the Kosovo, which dates 2005 from 22 February, stands literally to read: "over the key Player (e.g. Haliti, Thaci, Haradinaj) exist closest entwinements between politics, economics and internationally operating ok structures in the Kosovo. The criminal networks standing behind it promote there the political instability. They do not have interest in the structure of a functioning national order, by their flourishing business to be impaired can." Therefore, the German Federal Information Service writes, strove "relevant participants of the OK ONE on the Balkans either in high government or party offices and/or maintains good relations with these circles". The organized criminality provides in such a way "a suitable political surrounding field", is called it in the analysis of the Federal Information Service, marked as "classified material - officially secretly held". One of these key figures in the Kosovo, in which Switzerland admits in the best way, is Hashim Thaci, pointed name "queue", the chairman of the democratic party of the Kosovo. If one believes the Federal Intelligence Service, he controls today a weighty part of the criminal activities in the Kosovo. And: "Thaci applies beside Haliti [... ] as a client of the professional killer Afrimi", on whose account at least eleven order murders are to go. Thaci, 36, lived before the Kosovokrieg starting from 1995 as a recognized refugee for five years in Switzerland and studied at the University of Zurich - with a scholarship - Eastern European history. It was 1992 one later the founder of the UCK and their political leader. At one blow famous it became 1999, when it appeared with the Serbian-Albanian peace negotiations of Rambouillet as a delegation leader of the kosovo Albanian side - and thus as politicians of the international community one recognized. Thaci controlled a "security agency" at this time, writes "a criminal network" active in the entire Kosovo, the German Federal Information Service: "also direct contacts are to have existed conditions 2001 to the Czech and Albanian mafia." And in October 2003 Thaci, so the Federal Intelligence Service, "in connection with extensive drug and arms traffic business in close contact" to a clan, is to have confessed to which also money laundering and extortion are accused. Thacis entangling into the organized criminality, which are stressed, are based on intelligence sources and did not have legally so far not to be proven. The clan of the Kosovo Albanians A second "key Player", Ramush Haradinaj, 37, is probably one of the most disputed politicians in the Kosovo. In the Federal Intelligence Service report is located: "the structure around Ramush Haradinaj, which is based in the area Decani on family clan, is concerned with the entire spectrum of criminal, political and military activities, which affect safety conditions in the entire Kosovo substantially. The group counts approx.. 100 members and works in the smuggling of arms and drug and in the illegal trade with goods liable to duty. In addition it controls local government organs." The Kfor calls this group in a confidential report from 10 March 2004 "the most powerful criminal organization" the region and writes, also the distribution of humanitarian auxiliary goods controlled for Haradinaj and as power instrument abused. It could make its career owing to energetic assistance of the international community of states, in particular the USA. Ramush Haradinaj, which speaks English and French flowing, came in the year 1989 as an immigrant worker into Switzerland and was Rausschmeisser of a Disco in the ski place Leysin. In February 1998 it returned to the Kosovo and organized military operations of the UCK. After end of war it was noticeable because of armed arguments with other clan, which were interpreted for the time being of the UN authorities as "act of revenge ions" and as "payment of old calculations". Actually it might have concerned struggles for power among mafia families, the as also following example shows. The central Intelligence unit (CIU) describe an informative case with diplomatic entangling, the intelligence service of the UN, in a confidential report from 29 December 2003. Therefore Haradinaj with armed men attacked the house of a rivaling clan, which obviously konkurrenzierte him in the drug business on 7 July 2000. According to CIU he wanted to steal 60 kilograms cocaine from the family, which kept her allegedly hidden in the house. With a shooting it was wounded and had to flee. Before Haradinaj could be cross-examined by UN policemen, he was initiated set by two presumed CIA agents, into an Italian military helicopter in a lightning action, and to an army basis of the USA flown, stands in the report of the UN intelligence service. And the UN officials received the instruction from their headquarters in Pristina, "without measures against Ramush Haradinaj to do". The reason for this irritating restraint: It was feared, the arrest or only already the accusation of a hero of the liberation struggle could bring the strained situation in the Kosovo to the explosion. Haradinaj was brought in the USA after this incident from the field of fire: "during its stay in the USA it received training, and the American services guaranteed it support for its political career. If the Kosovo should become independent, he would be the favored presidency candidate ", is located in the CIU report. Back in the Kosovo the Protégé of the USA created a new party, the alliance for the future Kosovos. Ramush Haradinaj became in December 2004, as it the USA wished itself, Prime Minister in the Kosovo. But only three months long. In March 2005 it withdrew from its office and placed themselves to the war crimes tribunal into the Hague. One accuses to him during the Kosovo conflict systematically ethnical cleanings to have accomplished connected with tortures and rapes of Serbs and Roma. It denies all reproaches. In June it, on solid pressure of the US government and against the will of the Chefanklaegerin Carla Del Ponte, became from the remand to dismiss. It may work provisionally also politically again. The process into the Hague against it will presumably begin 2007. The reproach of the organized criminality was not brought yet before the law. Notice in Zurich Importantly in the Kosovo is also Xhavit Haliti, pointed name "Bunny". If one believes realizations of the Kfor, the member of the parliament presidency (and the deputy chairman of the party of the democratic party Kosovos) is involved a "well-known criminal figure, in the weapon and drug trade". Also in the Federal Intelligence Service report it is brought "with money laundering, drugs -, weapons -, human being and fuel smuggling, woman trade and the prostitution business in connection and assigned to the internal circle to the mafia. As key figure in the OK ONE moving (E) it constantly large sums of money." Haliti, 49, began its career, like Haradinaj and Thaci, in Switzerland. Here it stopped end of the eighties and studied themselves psychology. 1990 were committed on it in Zurich a politically motivated bomb attack. One year later it belonged already to the presidency of the people movement Kosovos and operated from Switzerland the organization of the UCK. Forwards and during the war he is to have procured weapons for her and to have controlled the "Homeland Calling find". For this fund, more or less voluntarily, kosovo Albanian emigrants donated particularly in Switzerland and in Germany 400 million US dollar. When the donations decreased/went back after end of war, the Kfor writes, "turned Haliti on a large scale the organized criminality too". Thus it is not according to the secret Kfor dossier an individual case: "remarkable is that under all the names, which circulate on the ok agencies it acts almost exclusively around UCK commanders and/or leaders of special-purpose forces." Also Haliti was proven to today nothing court-usable. Switzerland, then shows up by these three prominent examples once more, was a trick and a pivot of the UCK activities. Here before the Kosovo conflict millions for weapons and propaganda were collected and fighters were recruited, in order to finance and steer the so-called liberty fight of the suppressed Albanians in the Kosovo. In the summer the Upper House of Parliament decided 2001 that prominent representatives of the kosovo Albanian organizations may have to stop its political activities and also no more money collect. Against Haliti it imposed an entry barrier. Opium for Europe The kept secret reports of the intelligence services permit the conclusion that the Kosovo, despite UN administration and international colonial force, is one of the most important criminal turntables of Europe. One of the reasons is that profitable business with drugs: A large part of the constantly growing Opiumernte in Afghanistan arrives in the form of heroin over Albania and the Kosovo at the Western European and US market. Daily 500 to 700 Kilos by the Kosovo and Albania is smuggled and partly in own laboratories processed, says Klaus Schmidt, boss of the PAMECA, the European mission to the support of the police in Albania. Daily in the Albanian capital Tirana on the grey money market a million euro at drug funds are exchanged. Experts speak of the "world-wide largest drug trust", which developed in the past years. Even the excesses in March 2004, which brought the Kosovo to the edge of a renewed civil war, were consciously geschuert by criminal wire-pullers, so that these could follow to their business in all peace, are in the Federal Intelligence Service report to be read: "at the beginning of of April 2004 became from safety circuits on the Balkans admits that recent unrests are to have been prepared in the Kosovo by the organized criminality and accomplished in their order." During the riots whole trucks were smuggled by heroin and cocaine over the not controlled border, because the UN policemen and the Kfor soldiers were completely overtaxed with the damming of unrests. These realizations confirm police officers of the UN in Pristina, which must remain anonymous for their security. And they deplore themselves that up to the today's day nothing was undertaken against the criminal Strippenzieher. The UN and the Kfor did not even get the problem ansatzweise into the grasp. Not least the means are missing to the UN police. "we go to one of the highest UN police officers with a wood sword into the battle", complain before place above all however are missing it to it at the political support, in order to be able to proceed effectively against the mafia-clans. "neither, the Federal Information Service writes regional government circles nor the executive", would have "due to their own entangling an interest in their fight". And a leading civil servant of the UN police, department for the fight of the organized criminality, said the world week: "considerable persons, up to the former prime minister, were behind March unrests, which were prepared by a well-known criminal structure. This is not numerous services well-known, nevertheless anything against this structure is undertaken." Its explanation for it: "one wants here no further unrest, and which would give it, if one would lead against Ramush Haradinaj ok determinations." A consequence of this restraint: In Western Europe - in particular in Switzerland, in Germany and Italy - is kosovo Albanian clan today a prominent criminal power. The Federal Intelligence Service sees therein a "high Bedrohungspotenzial for Europe". In the Kosovo in the meantime many agencies to the UN police to the native Kosovo policy service will transfer. There however the old cadres sit at the point, which in the suspicion, closest, to maintain partial family relations with well-known mafia-groessen. The documents Federal Intelligence Service, which became Kfor and the UN against it deeply in the safe deposits of the Regierungskanzleien buried. Quote:Das Kosovo auf dem Weg in die Unabhängigkeit<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.weltwoche.ch/artikel/?AssetID=12373">http://www.weltwoche.ch/artikel/?AssetID=12373</a><!-- m --> Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 Ventimille Wrote:@AulonaI would not come here to put history that has been written by historians and not by priests, if our neighbors come back with medivial history, when we have an ancient one. So if you talk to me start talking to everyone else. I already said once, that even though we have longer history in Balkans, Kosovas Independence was given mostly based on human rights. Serbs have had problems all the time with everybody, cause of how good they are. It won't work anymore, people are I tried to stop, but our dear neigh awake and can see who is who! Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 Ventimille Wrote:OK, as for Kosovo's independence, I wanna say I'm not in favor. How can it be partition of Serbia when it was not part of Serbia, but Yugoslavia. Please go and read real history not mythology.... :lol: Quote:How I see the whole situation: several months/years from now on...EU will be forced to deal the reality that no self-respecting country would willingly accept loss of part of its territory through an illegality. Please stop with your non-sense you still are not making any sense. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 oesophagus Wrote:In my humble opinion as ex KFOR solider, I think that Serbs and Albanians are right and wrong at the same time about Kosovo. There is a lot of B... S... about this subject, a lot of albanian and serbian propaganda. Thing that i know, things are not black and white in this matter and that we came to Kosovo to save ethnic albanian population from raging serbs, and we ended saving serbs from albanians. I would urge you not to read or hear propaganda, but do some deep research on this subject, if you want to be more knowledgeable and than come and talk here about right and wrong. Re: Kosovo's independence... - AuLoNa - 03-05-2008 Serbian mafia In Serbia The Mafia in Serbia is composed of 3 major groups, the Vozdovac, Surcin and Zemun clan. During the period starting with the Yugoslav wars and ending with the death of the Prime Minister of Serbia, connections between the mafia and the government were obvious and even exposed, corruption was rampant in most branches of the government, from border patrols to law-enforcement agencies. After Slobodan Milošević was ousted, organized crime in Serbia went underground and into hiding. But soon a bloody feud emerged amongst different clans. The feud grew into an open war in which many of the mafia bosses lost their lives. In 2003, shortly after Đinđić's assassination, the government set in motion a major anti-mafia operation - "Operation Sablja" (English: Sabre), which led to many arrests, eliminations and emigration of mafia members. Belgrade Leading members The leading Serbian criminals of Belgrade at that time were interviewed in the documentary "Vidimo se u čitulji" (English: "The Crime That Changed Serbia"). Some of those were: * Željko Ražnatović ("Arkan") - Serbian Mafia boss * Kristijan Golubović * Milorad "Legija" Ulemek Analysis: Gangsters' paradise lost Gangland killing Gangland killings have become commonplace in Serbia By Tim Judah Was it the end of an era? With all eyes on the fall of Slobodan Milosevic few noticed that two other significant figures in Serbian public life also ended their careers a few hours either side of the former president of Yugoslavia. Stalked by a gunman for three days, mafia kingpin Jovan "Simenda" Simendic was murdered on 4 October, the day before Milosevic fell. President Milosevic Now that Mr Milosevic is gone which way will the political wind blow? And the night after Yugoslavia's peoples' uprising, the powerful gangster boss, Vladislav "Vanya" Bokan was gunned down by two men outside his house in Athens. Over the last ten years Yugoslavia, or what remains of it, has been turned from a relatively crime-free country into a state in which gangsters have flourished. Gangster state They have carved the country into private fiefdoms and fought as shock troops in the wars in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. But, with the fall of Milosevic, an odd thing has happened. Organised crime has suddenly ceased as the country's mafia bosses take stock of developments, and wait to see which way the political wind will blow. According to Vojislav Tufegdzic, top crime reporter for the daily Blic, most gangland bosses are simply sitting on their hands waiting to see what sort of country will now emerge in the wake of Milosevic's demise. "If our country becomes a serious state of law they can't expect anything good because they are the product of the regime of Slobodan Milosevic and their future is not good." says Mr Tufegdzic. The fact that the gangland bosses, who deal in everything from people smuggling to drugs to arms exports, are currently keeping a very low profile is having several immediate effects. The first is that Serbia's heroin supply has suddenly dried up leaving addicts desperate and distraught. Zeljko Raznatovic aka Arkan Arkan was the gangsters' 'boss of bosses' Close ties The links between the former regime and Serbia's underworld date from the early 1990s. Serbia's gangsters rode to power and riches on the back of state-sanctioned plunder during the wars of the former Yugoslavia. Zeljko Raznatovic "Arkan", the infamous Serbian "boss of bosses" and paramilitary leader who was shot dead in Belgrade on 15 January was responsible for recruiting many criminals into special units outside the regular military and police structures. These units did much of the dirty work of ethnic cleansing in the wars in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. According to Mr Tufegdzic, policemen were in a desperate position. They arrested the gangsters but then politicians ordered their release or corrupt judges set them free. Blood feuds Belgrade anti-Milosevic demos Yugoslavia's peoples' revolution has changed the rules for gansters This led to the emergence of powerful groups of armed mafia barons who carved up Serbia between them, co-operating with the authorities when it suited them. Now the wars are now over and Serbia is bankrupt. While by the mid-1990s there were 10 big bosses, their constant internecine warfare, means that almost all of that generation are now dead. The deaths of the big bosses has resulted in a fragmentation of the Serbian mafia. There are now believed to be some 80 small-time bosses, and it is they who are now waiting to see what will happen. So, while many now sip coffee quietly waiting to see how things develop, Mr Tufegdzic believes some are considering the classic gangster "next step". They are thinking of "going legit". |