lashachochua Wrote:One more thing, who made you right to decide for us that you do not want NATO members on your border. This decesion should be made by Georgians not buy you.........Thanks god and I hope we were saved from this terrible russian aggression... And I hope that the whole world sow the real face of Russia and rubbish behavoiur of Russian troops.........I was told that Russia is bed, but here it is what Great Rssuans think about Russians:

"Народ который блуждает по Европе и ищет что можно разрушить, уничтожить только ради развлечения." Достоевский
" Не народ ,а скотина, хам, дикая орда, душегубов и злодеев." Булгаков
"Наиважнейшею приметою удачи русского народа есть его садистская жестокость". Горький
"Русский есть наибольший и наинаглейший лгун во всем свете". Тургенев
"Народ, что ненавидит волю, обожает рабство, любит цепи на своих руках и ногах, грязный физически и морально...готовый в любой момент угнетать все и вся". Шмелев
"Народ равнодушный до наименьшей обязанности, до наименьшей справедливости, до наименьшей правды, народ, что не признает человеческое достоинство, что целиком не признает ни свободного человека ,ни свободной мысли". А.С. ПУШКИН.

Eka Wrote:

Platon Wrote:Who started the war? Of course the Georgians. Russians never do it. They never invaded the other countries.
How you don't :banghead understand the russian spiritual mission in the world, they are piece makers, every where, every time: in Poland, in Finland, In Prague, in Hungary. And the best achievement of piece was in Chechnia. georgians are fascists, they drink blood of ossetian children like jews of christian, russian children in Odessa.

Who tel you this things, are you really normall.Its great that here you are representing reall Russian soul - you hate everyone - Jews, Georgians and even Osetinas -they will soon understand who you are in reallity.

Russians were the same for Jew as Nazis were during WW2.So its indicator - attitude toward Jews, indicator how dengerous are your ideas, and indicator that Russia must not be dominante in world politics.

SVP Wrote:

Eka Wrote:

Platon Wrote:Who started the war? Of course the Georgians. Russians never do it. They never invaded the other countries.
How you don't :banghead understand the russian spiritual mission in the world, they are piece makers, every where, every time: in Poland, in Finland, In Prague, in Hungary. And the best achievement of piece was in Chechnia. georgians are fascists, they drink blood of ossetian children like jews of christian, russian children in Odessa.

Who tel you this things, are you really normall.Its great that here you are representing reall Russian soul - you hate everyone - Jews, Georgians and even Osetinas -they will soon understand who you are in reallity.

Russians were the same for Jew as Nazis were during WW2.So its indicator - attitude toward Jews, indicator how dengerous are your ideas, and indicator that Russia must not be dominante in world politics.

Eka, sorry, you are so stupid :-) He's provoking you. He actually says the same as you - that Russians are aggressive dirty bloodsuckers, who spoil the whole world :-)

SVP Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:One more thing, who made you right to decide for us that you do not want NATO members on your border. This decesion should be made by Georgians not buy you.........Thanks god and I hope we were saved from this terrible russian aggression... And I hope that the whole world sow the real face of Russia and rubbish behavoiur of Russian troops.........I was told that Russia is bed, but here it is what Great Rssuans think about Russians:

"Народ который блуждает по Европе и ищет что можно разрушить, уничтожить только ради развлечения." Достоевский
" Не народ ,а скотина, хам, дикая орда, душегубов и злодеев." Булгаков
"Наиважнейшею приметою удачи русского народа есть его садистская жестокость". Горький
"Русский есть наибольший и наинаглейший лгун во всем свете". Тургенев
"Народ, что ненавидит волю, обожает рабство, любит цепи на своих руках и ногах, грязный физически и морально...готовый в любой момент угнетать все и вся". Шмелев
"Народ равнодушный до наименьшей обязанности, до наименьшей справедливости, до наименьшей правды, народ, что не признает человеческое достоинство, что целиком не признает ни свободного человека ,ни свободной мысли". А.С. ПУШКИН.

Nice selection of sentences :-) This proves what sources you read (or you made the selection by yourself)?. Well, I tried to explain you the difference between an Economic-Political Union (EU) - which we have nothing against, and military union (NATO). I clearly showed you that the "correct" security" in Europe is the one with Russia included, not confronting it. Instead, your "security" is based on an outdated and huge NATO, whach was founded as anti-Russian organization. The facts are that NATO surrounds Russia in the interests of the US global influence, not the European security - I gave you the facts about direct talks of Poland and US (and they were against NATO to mediare), Chech and US, and you know yourself - Georgia and US. Why do you think they invest billions of dollars in Georgia? :-) You also did not notice that I said Russia wanted (and wants) real security in Europe, not confrontation, and what we offered to America about AMS. We cannot stop any country from joining NATO. But we'll have to take steps to provide our security. Shortly, you personally not a discussion partner. Because when somebody rejects ALL the opponent's views and info, not accepting a single one, omitting in his replies answers to statements that prove he's not right, and just saying that what he knows and says is the only truth - it is called biased person. And, finally, don't be mistaken about Russian army. If looting is true, I'm ashamed of it, and I want death sentence for it. But these are just mercenaries, like yours. But your well equipped mercenaries, in beaityful uniform and good equipment were running away from our beggars very fast and started playing hide-and-seek :-) Even you president could not find them in the end - by the way, I saw it on CNN (because I also read and view CNN, tens of western newspapers, and watch BBC). Your army are just cowards, but you'll never admit it. YOu say - huge Russia, small Georgia. But come on, we didn't send you the whole army, the Russian troops were less in number than the Georgians. Don't pretent to be Chechens, the fighters of the Caucasus :-) You are just Georgians :-) Write poems and make wine, not war :-) Your only hope was that NATO and US will bomb Russia in a few hours :-) They didn't. You know why? Because they are smarter than you and know, that Russia is still strong. Well, see no sense in further correspondence - it's useless.

SiD Wrote:Wow. It seems that georgians are all romantics, from the big road as it seems. :lol: .
Do you realy think that you are all alone in geopolitics?
SVP has explained everything to you in the way everyone can understand.
You call yourself free? than remember freedom is either responsobility for your actions.

lashachochua Wrote:Great, SiD, so now you can go and sleep, you have understood everything what SVP said....You got the wisdom, you even do not need to search for information.....Go and sleep...But believe me tha world will change while you sleep...................What responsibility are you talking about???? Tell me unresponsible actions of Georgian nation.....

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:Great, SiD, so now you can go and sleep, you have understood everything what SVP said....You got the wisdom, you even do not need to search for information.....Go and sleep...But believe me tha world will change while you sleep...................What responsibility are you talking about???? Tell me unresponsible actions of Georgian nation.....

Dont you see that your government get themselves cought between anwill and hammer? Look more carefully.
Your government was elected to defend interests of Georgia, were they successfull? Look at reality, not words or promises of foreign leaders.
Cant you see that Georgia lost A LOT?
You missanderstud your independance with ability to do anything you want. You are NOT ALONE in this world. Your actions can affect others and return to you like bumerang. But you have enough wisdom only to blame country your bummerang came from.

lashachochua Wrote:What we are doing inside Georgia it is our job...Here what we are discussing is Russian aggression...Come on SiD, How can I blame Georgian Government, when the whole evil is coming from Russian Government....Sorry, Once I said, I do not want to have government which will cooperate with Russia in the issues I think is not good for Georgia... So In this case, what Russia did, esp. recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia is terrible and fulishness.....No country other than russia ( I do not mean Cuba, Belarus and Syria) will follow Russia... Who can tell me why Russia is doing the things that whole world thinks is inadmissible?...Is it logical....Definately no....But I am sure consequances will be logical....

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:What we are doing inside Georgia it is our job...Here what we are discussing is Russian aggression...Come on SiD, How can I blame Georgian Government, when the whole evil is coming from Russian Government....Sorry, Once I said, I do not want to have government which will cooperate with Russia in the issues I think is not good for Georgia... So In this case, what Russia did, esp. recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia is terrible and fulishness.....No country other than russia ( I do not mean Cuba, Belarus and Syria) will follow Russia... Who can tell me why Russia is doing the things that whole world thinks is inadmissible?...Is it logical....Definately no....But I am sure consequances will be logical....

Well that is why i told you about responsability. Want to solve problem? cooperate with parties involved not with some man on defferent continent.

lashachochua Wrote:Ok, but cooperate in what?...Russia Finally showed that she was a party of conflict so far...How can we solve the problem, when russia uses it as part of trade...No Nato, if Yes NO abkhazia and S.Ossetia....Ivanov told to Rice that they want to change regime...Who gave them the right for that...This Government was elected by georgian population, we will decide to change it on elections....Not Ivanov and Russial antiliberal Government....Do you feel in freedom yourself while living in Russia, Plz answer honest....

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:Ok, but cooperate in what?...Russia Finally showed that she was a party of conflict so far...How can we solve the problem, when russia uses it as part of trade...No Nato, if Yes NO abkhazia and S.Ossetia....Ivanov told to Rice that they want to change regime...Who gave them the right for that...This Government was elected by georgian population, we will decide to change it on elections....Not Ivanov and Russial antiliberal Government....Do you feel in freedom yourself while living in Russia, Plz answer honest....

Well first of all cooperation should take place before the war. look what was happening.
One can not seat on two chairs. All we saw is how with one hand Saakashvili greeted Bush with other shown offendin figures to us.
In politics everything is used as part of trade. I do not blame them they acted in best interests of Russia it is natural for any government to act in thier country interests. Saakashvili should learn this conventional wisdom as you should.
I feel quite free, but some of my friends do not. We have disputes about it time to time, but believe me there are MANY opinions in Russia not just kremlins.

lashachochua Wrote:I am really happy for you...But still what is seen is that the critical mass of population live in total dependence...Give one reason, why it was in her best interest for Russia to invade Geogia and recognize the independence of Abkhazia and S. Ossetia? Have you ever heard long-run consequances?... Don't you think that after this processes western countries will never trust you, that they will start strategic beating of Russian Government?...Now I am watching how Russian soldiers are selling computers, TV-sets and even their own weapons for 1000 GEL, Granata for 100 USD....You call this army of great Nation.....M4 for 1000 USD....This is terrible........TERRIBLE.......Disreputable....

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:I am really happy for you...But still what is seen is that the critical mass of population live in total dependence...Give one reason, why it was in her best interest for Russia to invade Geogia and recognize the independence of Abkhazia and S. Ossetia? Have you ever heard long-run consequances?... Don't you think that after this processes western countries will never trust you, that they will start strategic beating of Russian Government?...Now I am watching how Russian soldiers are selling computers, TV-sets and even their own weapons for 1000 GEL, Granata for 100 USD....You call this army of great Nation.....M4 for 1000 USD....This is terrible........TERRIBLE.......Disreputable....

You cant understand that there is not such thing as trust in geopolitic. There are interests, treats, rivals, cooperation and so on. So there will be nothing new. Long run consiquences are not any concern becouse failing countrys national interests has no less long run consiquences but also has immidiete consequences.
So do not worry. And do not tell what others will do, you have no influence on them. And they have thier own interests in mind not yours you can be certain about that. And of course Russia is far more important in global scene than some pawn of US.

lashachochua Wrote:I am sorry I do not like to ask such questions but you deserve it...Name at least on geopolitician you have ever read, when you are talking about Geopolitics....Even in non-cooperative games there is equilibriums which largely is due to belives what others will do, but trust is providing always better outcome...Have you ever heard about game theory, about Nash, Harsanye....I do not think so...Sorry...But only leninizm, Markizm and modern Putinizm are not good foundation for modern thinking...

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:I am sorry I do not like to ask such questions but you deserve it...Name at least on geopolitician you have ever read, when you are talking about Geopolitics....Even in non-cooperative games there is equilibriums which largely is due to belives what others will do, but trust is providing always better outcome...Have you ever heard about game theory, about Nash, Harsanye....I do not think so...Sorry...But only leninizm, Markizm and modern Putinizm are not good foundation for modern thinking...

Cool. Than parhaps you will use all your deep modern knowledge and analyze your countrys actions and mine, and others. I realy want to hear. Go ahead. I ll wait. And i will read it all. So take your time.

lashachochua Wrote:SiD, sorry I have no time to make you know more...I prefer to go and do my job, I have to follow Doctorade level in economics in Carlos III, and I have to deal with real Numbers, do you know what does it mean?...If not, you will never nderstand it....I am not going to loose my time with you....You does not deserve it....I am askin questions you are indicating my level....I am providing arguments, you are telling some strange stories....Go and find someone who can understand you....I am not able to understand you, my level is too below from that of yours.....So find someone of your level..............

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:SiD, sorry I have no time to make you know more...I prefer to go and do my job, I have to follow Doctorade level in economics in Carlos III, and I have to deal with real Numbers, do you know what does it mean?...If not, you will never nderstand it....I am not going to loose my time with you....You does not deserve it....I am askin questions you are indicating my level....I am providing arguments, you are telling some strange stories....Go and find someone who can understand you....I am not able to understand you, my level is too below from that of yours.....So find someone of your level..............

SVP Wrote:SiD, hi.

The only thing I understood from talking to Georgians in this forum, is that you cannot have a dispute with them, at all. They just do not accept anything, absolutely anything, saying that all we say are either lies, or not true, or not smart, or stupid, etc. Now I understand, how difficult their Saakashvili is in talks, and why all the talks failed (there have never been a more irresponsible and reckless politic than Mr. Saakashvili).

Of course, what they say is always true and sincere, and you can trust them :-) This does not look modest, at least. By the way, what Ukrainians and Georgians have in common now (except the direct US financial, political and military support), they think of themselves as a highest race. They are so nice, smart, peaceful, and the Ukrainians even say that the Euporean civilization started from them, that they were the first people in Europe, etc. I'm happy about that, of course, because my wife is Ukrainian, and half of my family is from the Ukraine :-)

I tell them - we're not behind an iron curtain any more - we travel around the world, see countries, meet people. We do not reject the western values.We have enough freedoms not to call Russia a prison. Though we really have lots of other problems. They insist: "no, we know better, you're in prison, you have no freedoms, Saakashvili told us. And Human Rights Watch confirmed".

Our Georgian opponents do not recognize any other points of view, not only from Russian authors, but also from the West (I gave numerous links, asked what they thought, but nobody replied). Many direct questions like "Has Georgia recognized Kosovo?" remain unanswered. Also, nobody can explain me, what is the difference between Kosovo and South Ossetia.

The Georgian guys always reject that Stalin (the terrorist no 1 of the XXth Century), was Georgian ("he was more Russian"). Other bad Georgians like Schevardnadze, Ioseliani and Gamsakhurdia were either Russians or Russia's agents. Remember - only Russians are evil! He he.

We can acknoledge, that our presidents can be shitheads, they think that Georgian president cannot be insane dy definition. Such a blind faith. Whatever you do, Mishiko, whatever you do!

Also, the Georgians are using ugly methods, like humiliation of another ethnicity and reminding us that we are dirty, evil, bloody, etc. Somebody did a great job, finding and collecting negative characteristics of the Russian people by the Russian writers of the previous centuries. "See - your writers said you're shit, so what do you want from us?". I don't know how it contributes to better understanding each other. I think it just raises hatred.

They deny any geo-political reasons for the conflict: "You Russians just know nothing about geo-politics". Full stop." This is an argument, yep :-)

I explained in details which steps were offered by Russia to the US re the new joint security system, the joint AMD, etc. The Georgians did not notice any steps, practically deny them: "Russia cannot be trusted". All I wanna ask is - for you controntation is better? In this way you can get more money from the States? :-) For protection. Because, if we are in one security system, there'll be no enemy for Georgia :-) By the way, abt 5 million people die of starvation in Africa annually. The US does not help them. Georgia is more important :-) Why, I wonder.

So, I'm sick and tired of them. It's just a loss of time. So, from now on, I do not respond to Georgians here. Understand me right, nothing personal and it's not a childish caprice. Just due to uselessness of such "words exchange" - I cannot call it a dispute. But will still talk to other guys, who are really reasonable and ready to listen.

SiD Wrote:I agree with you.
You tried your best to explain to georgians our position but how can you argue with someone whos arguments are: You are BAD by default becouse all russians are bad they want only to conquer becouse they are that bad, your government is bad and so on?

lashachochua Wrote:It is better for you to read Dostoevsky!....

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:It is better for you to read Dostoevsky!....

look i think you misunderstud this site for literature club.
For you everyone who tries to explain something to you just speaks everything about nothing. But you told realy nothing. "All evill comes from Russia" it is your most briliant argument. Have no time for proper discussion? do not bother than.