Russia-Ukraine gas conflict - Printable Version +- Forums (https://eu-forums.com) +-- Forum: EU Forums (https://eu-forums.com/forum-19.html) +--- Forum: Hot Topics (https://eu-forums.com/forum-4.html) +--- Thread: Russia-Ukraine gas conflict (/thread-2356.html) |
Re: Please put Your attention on love to human in gas war! - Ukrainian - 01-19-2009 Please, don’t discuss or start here false and wrong topics like ”Ukraine wants…”.Ukraine had never said that ,the Head of Russian” Gasprom” said it. There is technological issue about the necessary amount of gas which makes possible transit if gas itself…The issue which can be discussed by specialists only. Don’t You remember what ideas for great Russians like Solzenitzin, Saharov, Shostakovitch ,Politkovskaya and others didn’t appreciate their own lives ?for freedom, for humanity ,for peace….Don’t You feel shame for what people write in here? Are You thinking about “moral violence”? Don’t put “bombs” in that war for Your sake! It is dangerous situation :we, Ukrainian people ,may become to be tired to faith ,if You press on us we gill give up and choose for next President the one who will obey to Russia, we don’t have too much variants of democracy in here, we have party in opposition, which was officially supported by Russia before Orange Revolution. Do You really believe that Ukraine is a machine for transit of Russian gas to Europe? And when it is not working You would call for “auto service”? No ,it is not ,there is people lives, people rights to live in free country, in safe country ,human rights ,the same for EVERY HUMAN ON THE EARTH !and when people discuss here the example like”…if Ukraine have no money to buy “Cadillac” or “Lincoln” ,Ukraine has not to buy”….no it is -10-20 degree below zero of cold in the winter is normal in here and if we pay any price which is offered to us, then our people and factories would be below the line of poverty…or will look for our own sources of heat, and in this case, to use our gas system for our own needs. Does anybody care about UKRAINIAN PEOPLE<NOT gas conflict? Think about simple issues as if in Your family ,in YOUR OWN country: will You survive if Your business partner wants to capture Your property, that has happened with transport gas system of Byelorussia, will You survive if there is enemy inside who betrays You in Your own family ,will You survive if Your neighbors look at You as at the reason of their troubles ?Discuss real simple matters….if we will sacrifice our human rights to be Ukraine ,not a part of Russian political system ,rights for respect of our work ,if theoretically there is the corrupting company would exist which related with Russian gas ,there should be a criminal case against this company, without mention people of Ukraine, our rights ,our country.If WE will not exist as a country,one day You may discover Russian gas Company cuts gas to You and there is no Ukraine to blame….Will You call for “Auto service”? Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - Ukrainian - 01-19-2009 Don’t You remember what ideas for great Russians like Solzenitzin, Saharov, Shostakovitch ,Politkovskaya and others didn’t appreciate their own lives ?for freedom, for humanity ,for peace….Don’t You feel shame for what people write in here? Are You thinking about “moral violence”? Don’t put “bombs” in that war for Your sake! It is dangerous situation :we, Ukrainian people ,may become to be tired to faith ,if You press on us we gill give up and choose for next President the one who will obey to Russia, we don’t have too much variants of democracy in here, we have party in opposition, which was officially supported by Russia before Orange Revolution. Do You really believe that Ukraine is a machine for transit of Russian gas to Europe? And when it is not working You would call for “auto service”? No ,it is not ,there is people lives, people rights to live in free country, in safe country ,human rights ,the same for EVERY HUMAN ON THE EARTH !and when people discuss here the example like”…if Ukraine have no money to buy “Cadillac” or “Lincoln” ,Ukraine has not to buy”….no it is -10-20 degree below zero of cold in the winter is normal in here and if we pay any price which is offered to us, then our people and factories would be below the line of poverty…or will look for our own sources of heat, and in this case, to use our gas system for our own needs. Does anybody care about UKRAINIAN PEOPLE<NOT gas conflict? Please, don’t discuss or start here false and wrong topics like ”Ukraine wants 700 mln$…”".Ukraine had never said that ,the Head of Russian” Gasprom” said it. There is technological issue about the necessary amount of gas which makes possible transit if gas itself…The issue which can be discussed by specialists only.Think about simple issues as if in Your family ,in YOUR OWN country: will You survive if Your business partner wants to capture Your property, that has happened with transport gas system of Byelorussia, will You survive if there is enemy inside who betrays You in Your own family ,will You survive if Your neighbors look at You as at the reason of their troubles ?Discuss real simple matters….if we will sacrifice our human rights to be Ukraine ,not a part of Russian political system ,rights for respect of our work ,if theoretically there is the corrupting company would exist which related with Russian gas ,there should be a criminal case against this company, without mention people of Ukraine, our rights ,our country.If WE will not exist as a country,one day You may discover Russian gas Company cuts gas to You and there is no Ukraine to blame….Will You call for “Auto service”? Re: Putin accuses Ukraine of holding Europe hostage over gas row - Ukrainian - 01-19-2009 Don’t You remember what ideas for great Russians like Solzenitzin, Saharov, Shostakovitch ,Politkovskaya and others didn’t appreciate their own lives ?for freedom, for humanity ,for peace….Don’t You feel shame for what people write in here? Are You thinking about “moral violence”? Don’t put “bombs” in that war for Your sake! It is dangerous situation :we, Ukrainian people ,may become to be tired to faith ,if You press on us we gill give up and choose for next President the one who will obey to Russia, we don’t have too much variants of democracy in here, we have party in opposition, which was officially supported by Russia before Orange Revolution. Please, don’t discuss or start here false and wrong topics like ”Ukraine wants…”.Ukraine had never said that ,the Head of Russian” Gasprom” said it. There is technological issue about the necessary amount of gas which makes possible transit if gas itself…The issue which can be discussed by specialists only.there is people lives, people rights to live in free country, in safe country ,human rights ,the same for EVERY HUMAN ON THE EARTH !and when people discuss here the example like”…if Ukraine have no money to buy “Cadillac” or “Lincoln” ,Ukraine has not to buy”….no it is -10-20 degree below zero of cold in the winter is normal in here and if we pay any price which is offered to us, then our people and factories would be below the line of poverty…or will look for our own sources of heat, and in this case, to use our gas system for our own needs. Does anybody care about UKRAINIAN PEOPLE<NOT gas conflict? Think about simple issues as if in Your family ,in YOUR OWN country: will You survive if Your business partner wants to capture Your property, that has happened with transport gas system of Byelorussia, will You survive if there is enemy inside who betrays You in Your own family ,will You survive if Your neighbors look at You as at the reason of their troubles ?Discuss real simple matters….if we will sacrifice our human rights to be Ukraine ,not a part of Russian political system ,rights for respect of our work ,if theoretically there is the corrupting company would exist which related with Russian gas ,there should be a criminal case against this company, without mention people of Ukraine, our rights ,our country.If WE will not exist as a country,one day You may discover Russian gas Company cuts gas to You and there is no Ukraine to blame… Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Max - 01-19-2009 Stop speculations about certain prices, folks… No one knows anything for sure till papers are signed. It will be not 201$ but also not 450$. Besides once again accordingly to so called “formula” prices are set for every QUARTER. So we only can discuss prices for first quarter. Next quarter price will lower. BK Wrote:If so, then the price of gas will remain low and in three to five years time, Russia and Ukraine will have lost most of their captive European market. Sorry BK, what market in EU Ukraine has exactly? We don’t sell anything to EU, we only transport. Since the Merkel declares “confidence in Russia is lost’ no one will build alternative ways for Russian gas. It will be still flowing only through Ukraine so we still have our lever, the transit rate. At the moment the cooperation with Russia is not profitable for us. If Russia will fail and stop export we will rebuild our GTS for Caspian pool… even if we stop it, it will not damage us economically at all. Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - russian999 - 01-19-2009 Max Wrote:Stop speculations about certain prices, folks… No one knows anything for sure till papers are signed. It will be not 201$ but also not 450$. Besides once again accordingly to so called “formula” prices are set for every QUARTER. So we only can discuss prices for first quarter. Next quarter price will lower. OOOO, common, Max! Just say, that Ukraine is loosing in this game!Do not be silly. Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Max - 01-19-2009 Loosing what? Unprofitable transit which makes 60% of Russian export? Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - russian999 - 01-19-2009 Max Wrote:Loosing what? Unprofitable transit which makes 60% of Russian export? Ukraine loosing Yuchenko and pink dreams about democratic country, were nobody can work, but everybody can be happy! Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Ukrainian - 01-19-2009 You know how to build a better world with sacrifice of human rights and freedom? We have heard this already... Can somebody answer for the question:How can be possible that Russian as Company "Gasprom"is not responsible for their own clients in EUROPEAN Union? How can become possible in Europe in XXI century that the Company took measures cutting gas supply without any officially proved cases against their transit partner and without agreement and warning of their clients in Europe? Does this undersrtable? Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Max - 01-19-2009 Russian999 Wrote:Ukraine loosing... pink dreams about democratic country! I can’t figure out your message about pink democratic countries… and blue dictatorships, right? The conditions of Russian transit may be profitable or not. At the moment due to political motives Russia creates unprofitable conditions of transit. OK. We should wait a bit while EU will find alternative ways in Caspian pool and Iran, we should also find alternative ways for Ukraine as own shelf producing and diversification of origins… and then to stop transit completely. Simple as that. Re: To a better world - Ukrainian - 01-19-2009 You say that. You know how to build a better world without human rights and freedom? We have heard that from Gitler and Stalin.... Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - russian999 - 01-19-2009 Ukrainian Wrote:You know how to build a better world with sacrifice of human rights and freedom? My frends, I know, what democracy is. I was in USA for quater of life. You never will be democratic country until you, guys, lift up you asses and throw away all corrupt gangs in you government. But you prefer to sit at you table and do nothing, exept writing posts. Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - russian999 - 01-19-2009 Max Wrote:Russian999 Wrote:Ukraine loosing... pink dreams about democratic country! You should gather your people and kick out all your hrushenkos, Simple as that. And after this Russia will be at your feet. But for now you just taking blow from your corrupt government. In Russia, at least, we dont have chaos. Re: Ukraina is a terrorist state? - Ukrainian - 01-19-2009 Please, don’t discuss or start here false and wrong topics like ”Ukraine wants 700 mln $…”.Ukraine had never said that ,the Head of Russian” Gasprom” said it. There is technological issue about the necessary amount of gas which makes possible transit if gas itself…The issue which can be discussed by specialists only. Don’t You remember what ideas for great Russians like Solzenitzin, Saharov, Shostakovitch ,Politkovskaya and others didn’t appreciate their own lives ?for freedom, for humanity ,for peace….Don’t You feel shame for what people write in here? Are You thinking about “moral violence”? Don’t put “bombs” in that war for Your sake! It is dangerous situation :we, Ukrainian people ,may become to be tired to faith ,if You press on us we gill give up and choose for next President the one who will obey to Russia, we don’t have too much variants of democracy in here, we have party in opposition, which was officially supported by Russia before Orange Revolution. Do You really believe that Ukraine is a machine for transit of Russian gas to Europe? And when it is not working You would call for “auto service”? No ,it is not ,there is people lives, people rights to live in free country, in safe country ,human rights ,the same for EVERY HUMAN ON THE EARTH !and when people discuss here the example like”…if Ukraine have no money to buy “Cadillac” or “Lincoln” ,Ukraine has not to buy”….no it is -10-20 degree below zero of cold in the winter is normal in here and if we pay any price which is offered to us, then our people and factories would be below the line of poverty…or will look for our own sources of heat, and in this case, to use our gas system for our own needs. Does anybody care about UKRAINIAN PEOPLE<NOT gas conflict? Think about simple issues as if in Your family ,in YOUR OWN country: will You survive if Your business partner wants to capture Your property, that has happened with transport gas system of Byelorussia, will You survive if there is enemy inside who betrays You in Your own family ,will You survive if Your neighbors look at You as at the reason of their troubles ?Discuss real simple matters….if we will sacrifice our human rights to be Ukraine ,not a part of Russian political system ,rights for respect of our work ,if theoretically there is the corrupting company would exist which related with Russian gas ,there should be a criminal case against this company, without mention people of Ukraine, our rights ,our country.If WE will not exist as a country,one day You may discover Russian gas Company cuts gas to You and there is no Ukraine to blame…. Re: Ukraina is a terrorist state? - Ukrainian - 01-19-2009 Can somebody answer for the question:How can be possible that Russian as Company "Gasprom"is not responsible for their own clients in EUROPEAN Union? How can become possible in Europe in XXI century that the Company took measures cutting gas supply without any officially proved cases against their transit partner and without agreement and warning of their clients in Europe? Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Justme - 01-19-2009 I agree with Russian999 in general but with all I know of the US I cannot call the country democratic. :roll: They even don't have direct electons. Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - justme - 01-19-2009 The most disgusting thing is that Ushenko was a success in creating hostility between two nations. Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - russian999 - 01-19-2009 Justme Wrote:I agree with Russian999 in general but with all I know of the US I cannot call the country democratic. :roll: They even don't have direct electons. Any way, they have democracy for internal use, but not for foreign affair Re: Ukraina is a terrorist state? - the truth - 01-19-2009 FIRST FACTt is that Ukraine doesn't have any business contract with Europe about gas,we have contract with russia about transit of russian gas from the border of russia to the border of European Union,and all of it was delivered in full measure which Europe paid to russia and Europe didn't make complains about that the reason why Russia cutted off the gas to Ukraine on the 1st of January was that there were no agreement beetwen"Gasprom"and ukrainian"Naftogas" for the gas for ukraine on 30th of december .becouse Russia started to deny previous agreement about the price for next three years and on 30th "Gasprom"put new price of 420 dollars for barel of gas,which Ukraine refused to sign becouse it is highest price in europe at the time when the price for transit remans the same.The reason why "Gasprom"hAD RIGHT TO CUT OFF the gas for European union which has deal with "Gasprom"is still unanswered.the same there is no answer why they blame Ukraine Russan"Gasprom"has a Goal for monopoly for gas in all Europe ,and Ukraine stands on its way,and as far as they capture it,they will have power on europe more and more,this is why they take risk to loose millions with each day and 18 countries of europe are without heat We have right to choose any President our people wish,that fact that the President of Ukraine is Yushenko means will of UKRAINIAN People and Ukrainian people had to faith for that during Orange Revolution for that right to choose OUR will,not anybody's else will.as We start to choose the President who RUSSIA would LIKE<THE NEXT STEP is that Europe WIIL do that too. Secondly,there is technological question:when they cut off the gas on the 1st of January ukrainian"Naftogas"was waiting for two hours,sending our own gas to Europe,and when the position of "Gasprom"becomes clear,they made the operation so called"revers"which means that they turned our gas sistem from transit to provide gas for our own needs for all ukraine:from east to west and they need to turn all pressure on the opposite way in order the our own gasfrom our own storages(becouse we have own gas here too,in the time ag Soviet Union Ukraine was the sourse of all gas,before they find it in Siberia and it becomes less in here and ,also we were prepared to this war and we saved the gas for which we had paid to russia untill the last month of 2008 and we warned )when Russia sent some amount of gas for europe on 13th of january,it is simply not possible to turn gas transport sistem for transit again with that pressure,and to put this sistem to "avers"instead of "revers",it is necessary that all sistem would return to ordinary prosidure for to satisfy transit and a the same time to work for inner needs for ukraine too. in this situation Ukrainian Goverment had to choose beetwen Ukrainian people or to sacrifice them in the name of any country of Europe,the same as any country of Europe woudn't sicrifice their own people for sake of ukraine Third position is that Ukraine owns it transit gas sistem and not going to give it to own someone else.So this comes to explanation why there is "information war"and lies they say against ukraine,the same as gas war of "Gasprom" and Russia,and our President don't even respond for what they say without any single provement becouse He is busy with actions. Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Max - 01-19-2009 russian999 Wrote:You should gather your people and kick out all your hrushenkos May be but it will not solve our problem of gas dependence on dictatorship, it will only deepen it. I have better idea: we should gain energy independence, alternative ways, devirsification and then... simply kick Russian gas off the markets of Europe and Ukraine. As moral compensation for troubles. It's not the end of cheep gas age... it's also the end of Russian gas in Europe age. Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - russian999 - 01-19-2009 Max Wrote:russian999 Wrote:You should gather your people and kick out all your hrushenkos Ok, I got you way of thinking. Re: To a better world - sektor_Gaza - 01-19-2009 Ukrainian Wrote:You say that. yes yes you're so right. Gosh, my brother, you've forgotten to mention dear Mr His Highness Ukrainian Yuschenko, great opportunist, along with German Nazi Hitler and Georgian Commie Spy Josef Djugashvili (a.k.a. Stalin), Mr Saakashvili's beloved uncle a.k.a. Koba. Look at the root to find out the truth to better world. Re: Putin accuses Ukraine of holding Europe hostage over gas row - Moskal - 01-19-2009 BK Wrote:Moskal Wrote:You are arrogantly trying here to discuss about things, which you know about only from your " free" media, the extent of your knowledge can be judged by the fact that you consistently distort proper Russian names including my nick here (do you mind my distorting yours). Pleasure for me too, professor! As to the monitors. I WAS at the Dispatch Center of Gazprom last Friday (together with many journalists, including CNN and Bloomber TV). I know from the monitors (including foreign) deployed there that they are instructed by the EC NOT TO GIVE ANY INTERVIEWS. That perfectly illustrates the desire to find out the truth by the European Commission, doesn't it. This is No.1. No. 2. Nabucco. Coincidentally it bypasses the Ukraine too. Let's now calculate a bit. Currently, the Ukrainian transportation system's capacity is about 140 bcm p.a. Nord Stream planned annual capacity is 55 bcm, South Stream - 30 bcm, and Nabucco - another 30 bcm. So, altogether they will not even make up the current Ukrainian system (in presumption it's gonna be excluded from the supplies). Hence Nabucco is not a competitor, but rather complements supplies to Europe. But only in case if it has supplies. Azerbaijani fields are not enough, while the Iranian gas is forbidden by US for obvious reasons. besides, if you look at the map, Nabucco is almost twice as long compared to SS. And finally CEOs of Gazprom and Italian ENI have just recently agreed to speed up the SS... For some reason. And finally, the solution for the Ukraine has been found: $360 for this year (this includes 20% discount) provided unchanged transit fees @ $1.7. A handsome solution for Gazprom isn't it? Given its initial offer of $250, if you remember. Although, some report that the Ukrainian real sector cannot survive at anything higher than $250. But let Europeans help them (though I very much doubt they will). Re: Ukraine wants $US 700 million worth of gas to resume transit - sektor_Gaza - 01-19-2009 Ukrainian Wrote:Please, don’t discuss or start here false and wrong topics like ”Ukraine wants…”.Ukraine had never said that ,the Head of Russian” Gasprom” said it. There is technological issue about the necessary amount of gas which makes possible transit if gas itself…The issue which can be discussed by specialists only. Should I care of Politkovskaya? No I am not interested. She tried to play with Chechen Mafia and paid for it! No politics in this case. I more worry of Russians, living in Ukraine. New Hitler revived, known as Pan Yuschenko, who calls himself a democrat and glorifies SS Nazis of Ukrainian nationals, who suppress Russian Language, who re-write history in the books using his sick-minded dreams. Poor people of Ukraine, stay alert as Vampire is close in Kiev! :twisted: Re: To a better world - Ukrainian - 01-19-2009 Please, without taking personal,can somebody answer for the question:How can be possible that Russian as Company "Gasprom"is not responsible for their own clients in EUROPEAN Union? How can become possible in Europe in XXI century that the Company took measures cutting gas supply without any officially proved cases against their transit partner and without agreement and warning of their clients in Europe? Will we go to the better world on those prinsiples? Re: To a better world - sektor_Gaza - 01-19-2009 Ukrainian Wrote:Please, without taking personal,can somebody answer for the question:How can be possible that Russian as Company "Gasprom"is not responsible for their own clients in EUROPEAN Union? World is cruel in fact. There is no truth -one for everyone. Just an example: If Russia points at snow and states that snow is "White", then any US Neocon Administration will declare that Russia's again flexing its muscles and force us to believe that snow is white when it is in no doubt -BLACK Reaction from some states: Ukraine: Russia had again provoked precedent by sending snow into sky, This is all from KGB! Russians want to freeze us! Everybody know that snow is white, but snow from Russia is Black! Georgia/Baltic States/Poland: YES YES YES. WE ARE IN PANIC!!!! Let's isolate from Russia as it declared that it is going to kills us by black snow. USA - free world HELP US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we are afraid. EU: We must declare that we feel very anxious about the The Statement from Russia. We urge all parties to enter into negotiations. Then we find out what colour is snow in Moscow!!! FUnny write, but i feel more said as it goes this way in reality! |