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+--- Thread: Russia-Ukraine gas conflict (/thread-2356.html)
Re: Ukraina is a terrorist state? - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
Guest Wrote:My dear Mata Hari!
I think the one who has ability to think, see and understand is able to see that there's no aggression from the side of Ukrainians and it is clearly seen from this forum as well. If the one read all the topics and comments, he will see the aggression from Russians when Ukrainians try to make the discussion, Russians do their best to offend Ukrainians and blame our country and goverment.
Dear Russian "brothers"! Our goverment is our choice, the choice of independent country and people. And it's not your business. Your agression makes us smile, because everyone who is able to use his brains can see the real state of things.
Sektor_Gaza, my strong opinion is that if there's a spy and a provocer, it is you! How much Mr. Putin pays you for your "dirty mission"? As I can see, you spend all your time here making stupid and provocative topics, offending Ukrainians and our country! You don't work? Mr. Putin gives you a bone from his table?But the truth is that Russia lost this war against Ukraine.
And you may continue to spread your stupid thoughts and offends, the fact is the fact..Just don't be ruined by your own agression!
You said that "our goverment is our choice, the choice of independent country and people. And it's not your business.". you're wrong. it is our business as fascists in your government suppress Russians in all spheres (business, culture, politics, language). Your elected government are no way ashamed to blackmail and lie, it is absolutely unacceptable in Europe!!!!! That's why it is our business!
You also asked "ow much Mr. Putin pays you".
ANSWER: Listen carefully! He pays me by his successful management of Russia, high level protection from aggressors like Saaki and Yushi, solving social and demographic issues. The greatest payment, I received from Putin, is my confidence of Russia's economic success in the closest future! Putin-like-workers are a dream for any company which wants to succeed in business! Putin is very honest and a great patriot of Holy Russia. Handover my respect with greetings to Putin if you see him any day!
Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
Ukrainian Wrote:i had never heard about"Rosukrenergo"etc,before this New Year,and I DON"T WANT TO know about it,Stop being a spammer! No one here is against you! Live a good life and enjoy it! I truly wish we would have some pleasant moments to discuss rather than scandals.
i want to pay my bills and to provide normal life.
I STOPPED my normal life and i started to post in here.
Re: Russia-Ukraine gas conflict - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
Max Wrote:BK, a million of regrets for loosing your great reply, my fault particularly … Yep, Brzezinski articles are far not entertainment; Washington oracles are completely merciless as regards the Russia. The sad truth is he never was wrong before.
To Russian guys who brag about so called “might” and “power” of a single country. If your country depends on West in export and import on 90% and it depends on former Soviet republics where you have only Belorus among obvious satellites on 10%... don’t you think your entire future depends on them, on their will to cooperate with Russia or not?
The subsequences of declaring the gas war of those your are in fact dependant upon may lead to economical catastrophe much faster then it happened 17 years ago.
Dear Max,
Russians are not against the West or neighbours. We do not need confrontations! You know it but you deny the truth that you clearly know! The problem is not in Puitn. All this shit is coming from President Yushi, appointed from US. He had made you so brainwashed. Russia wants partners to be pragmatic in cooperation and business. That's all. Russians want to earn money as more as possible legally!
Re: Russia-Ukraine gas conflict - Max - 01-21-2009
sektor_Gaza Wrote:The problem is not in Puitn.
My dear young friend, I'm not sure we are in one weight category to conduct such discussions... but let it be. The problem is entire hyper centralized repressive political system and mindset which produces one dictator after other.
What should your neighbors do to not follow you? Only to resist and just.
Quote:All this shit is coming from President Yushi
I think all this stuff comes from almost everywhere and especially from US and UK. The angry NATO is also in charge.
Not good for you at all because Russia is really lonely country. But is is so only due to its rulers.
Re: Russia-Ukraine gas conflict - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
Max Wrote:My dear young friend, I'm not sure we are in one weight category to conduct such discussions... but let it be. The problem is entire hyper centralized repressive political system and mindset which produces one dictator after other.
What should your neighbors do to not follow you? Only to resist and just.
Dear Max,
Have you any example of so-called repression as you stated there is "repressive political system" in Russia?
Who was repressed?
As concerning "neighbours", Russia takes actions only when "neighbour's acations" can harm Russia's security.
So Russia does not need Ukraine to love her. It wants Ukraine to be a partner!
Re: Russia-Ukraine gas conflict - Moskal - 01-21-2009
Max Wrote:If your country depends on West in export and import on 90% and it depends on former Soviet republics where you have only Belorus among obvious satellites on 10%... don’t you think your entire future depends on them, on their will to cooperate with Russia or not?
The subsequences of declaring the gas war of those your are in fact dependant upon may lead to economical catastrophe much faster then it happened 17 years ago.
Max, honey!
The problem is that such dependence is mutual. In other words, Russia depends on the European and other countries in terms of gas supplies as much as such countries depend on Russia. Moreover, experts unanimously say this dependence will only grow in a middle and longer term as the demand for oil and gas will grow significantley despite the current crisis. They predict the oil prices to rise to at least $70 as early as this coming fall.
If I were you, I'd rather worry and care about the Ukraine's potential default. According to some estimates, the Ukraine is one of the coutries of the world that was hit by the crisis most and its key economic indicators are very close to those of Equador, which has already declared a default.
Re: EXTRA: EU says NO Ukraine siphoning of Russia gas ! - Moskal - 01-21-2009
Olaf Wrote:Quote:Kiev - Siphoning of Russian gas moving to Europe by Ukraine was not taking place, a European Union official said Tuesday. "We do not have any information that Ukraine performed unsanctioned siphoning of (Russian natural gas earmarked for Europe) after December 31," said Andris Piebalgs, the European Union's Energy Commissioner, at a Kiev press conference.
Piebalgs' remarks came on the first day of a resumption of Russian natural gas shipments to Ukraine, cut off at the end of 2008 over a series of Russo-Ukrainian disputes, among them Russian allegations that Ukraine had stolen Russian gas in the past.
Gazprom Vice Chairman Aleksander Medvedev at a Moscow press conference called Ukrainian theft of Russian gas prior to 2009 "an established fact," and said his company reserved the right to sue Ukraine for compensation.
Ukrainian officials throughout Europe's recent gas crisis have said they stole no Russian gas.
Russia re-opened its gas taps into Ukraine's gas pipeline system early on Tuesday, after talks between the leaders of the Russian and Ukrainian governments in Moscow over the weekend.
Minor rises in gas export volumes had been detected at Ukraine's Slovakian and Hungarian borders by Tuesday afternoon, with a return of full pre-crisis flow volumes expected on Wednesday.
NO COMMENTS!
Hello to all Russian provocators and liers!
Monitors at all ends of the pipe keep saying the gas was stolen, but Piebalgs of course says no proof was found. Mr. Piebalgs is a russophobe by implication (nationality and background - noblesse oblige).
By the way, Oluh, the title of your posting here is misleading and communicates the opposite in fact - go to school and learn English!
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Kusnetsov - 01-21-2009
RussianRussianRussian Wrote:Да нет, на английском изъясняться надо. Пусть европейцы читают. Может поймут нас больше тогда и вообще умнее станут.Guest Wrote:Если не ошибаюсь, первоначальная идея ВК была абсолютно здравой. Если Россия с Украиной не будут держаться вместе, то не получат ничего. Если не брать в расчет Иран, то Турция рвется в ЕС и обещает бесперебойный транзит газа из Средней Азии. Мы-то тоже транзитная страна. Но вот Украинский президент - беда для всех.
Да давайте в конце концов переходить на Русский язык
Всеравно Русских и Украинцев на этом форуме больше чем европейцев
Для Ukrainian,
Да к черту газ! Забудь о газе! Газ суть призрак, он - ничто. Живи жизнью. В жизни есть много других удивительных вещей. Которые также могут вызвать злость в тебе. Мир населен огромным количеством живых существ (помимо русских), которых ты, честный украинский гражданин, можешь также легко ненавидеть. И к черту законы рынка! Они скомпрометировали себя.
The rest is English.
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Guest - 01-21-2009
[quote="Moskal"]
I work as part of a big international PR team based all over the world. We are engaged by Gazprom. And one of our tasks is to provide to the client RELIABLE info on how is Gazprom perceived by media, governments, general public, etc. (as opposed to pleasing info only - just in case for any of your speculation. Inter alia, we provide daily reports on US and EU media coverage regarding Gazprom. All the above said allows me (and anybody else with brain not washed by local media) to believe that I am much better informed than probably anyone else here.
Mr. Moskal, Thank you for telling us that you work in public relations for Gazprom and the Russian government. That explains what you and your coworkers are doing on this forum (and on a lot of other internet sites.) You are working. Your job is to distract, confuse, obscure, distort, spin, misrepresent and lie in order to protect Russias image. Obviously you cannot tell the truth here, even if you know the truth, which we doubt. If you did know the truth or tell the truth then you would lose your job, got to jail or get a bullet in your head like Stanislav Markelov. So we forgive you.
Re: Russia-Ukraine gas conflict - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
Posts on this theme from: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.russiatoday.com/forums/News/topic/203">http://www.russiatoday.com/forums/News/topic/203</a><!-- m -->
Marko January 21, 2009, 05:05
I think this is not the end of the gas dispute.Because the USA(satana)will tray some other vay to make more problems to Russia.
Long live greatest Russia.Broter tzar Putin and Medvedev GOD bless you and our mother Russia.
Serb who love Russsia and Serb come from Republic Srbska
Mihal Mihalich January 21, 2009, 04:27
Dear Ladies & Gentlemen
Lets get to the basics.
During 2008 Ukraine was buying Russian gas for 169$ for 1000 cubes and selling it for ALL Ukraine private and business sector for almost 300$. And ALL gas consumers: private, corporate and government have paid their bills for gas. ALL OF THEM. That means Ukraine HAS about twice much money they supposed to have to payoff 2 billions $ debt to Gasprom.
Ukraine asks for 2 billion $ credit claiming it doesn’t have the money, European bankers what how Ukraine currency inflating and that despite 18 billion$ they already loaned them Ukraine still comes short every year and in current Financial credit crisis banks are not willing to grand them a loan.
Ukraine singed transit charter that they guaranty energy transit no matter what. And January 1 2009 new contract gas for Ukraine was not signed, Ukraine siphoned gas from European pipeline and 6 days later stopped transit completely. Ukraine needs 1 pipeline and they closed 4 channeling all gas for themselves. Which is why Gas didn’t go though Ukraine at first attempt. TRANSIT pipeline was EMPTY while it supposed to constantly have over 100 million cubes of gas in it at all times(if I understand it correctly).
Ukraine has the money to pay for gas but they don’t.
Ukraine refused to sign best deal on the market right now of 250$ per 1000 cubic miters.
Ukraine ignored transit charter obligations to Europe and cut them gas without any warning.
It was PURELY Political decision that came from Ukraine president himself, and it originated from Nabucco pipeline scammers. The people who underestimated their desire to have energy security. Europe would rather send NATO troops to guard transit pipeline then invest into Nabucco and become vulnerable to many more unstable transit countries. Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Turkey already made their choice. They choose Russia.
Now Nabucco authors see a need to destabilize Ukraine as much as they can to create risks or gas piracy for years so it would make Europe unstable forcing investment capital to go to other countries like United States for example. Clinton Democrats will ensure Europe high risks Years. So I think as long as Americans have their man in Ukraine, Europe will have no guaranties for transit.
Standard and Poors will make sure that everybody has lower ratings than United States for next 100 years and offer World to buy sub prime derivatives version 2.0;
News Corp, CNN, BBC etc will advertise Failed Europe and Triple A sub prime derivatives versions 2 and 3
And Europe will be stuck with unpredictable Orange and Rose revolution fans for as long as they support it.
Best regards
russ January 20, 2009, 22:35
Timoshenko supposedly still wants Ukraine in NATO and the EU so this is far from over.
I personally doubt Ukraine will ever be in NATO considering now that Russia has a veto over NATO operations in part due to NATO needed Russian transit to resupply forces in Afghanistan and other major NATO powers like France and Germany do not want Ukraine in NATO because they do not want any possible conflict with Russia over Ukraine. France and Germany want energy and Russia provides that they see no need for a military conflict with Russia. Josh January 20, 2009, 18:31
It is clear, that Russia is implementing the plan to gain the control the all gas transporting system of the former USSR. It almoust got the control of the Belarus pipes, and wants to control Ukrainian. And all this theater which we saw during the last 3 week - it's just the big game of negotiating who will bite bigger part of the money cake. David January 20, 2009, 16:09
The Western Media have said that it is Russia who has turned on the taps, again. They have made it sound like it was Russia all along when, in fact, it has been Ukraine all along.
Russia needs to step up its activities in organising another route for the transfer of gas and oil, skirting Ukraine.
Trust Ukraine, never in a month of Sundays. Just turn the gas supply off to Ukraine the second they fail to pay. Make Ukraine pay up front - no money no service. fred January 20, 2009, 13:39
is this the end of crisis ?
i don't think so !
Ukraine is living on 2 items : Industrial production (heavilly dependent on Gas price) and Gas transit ...
up to now , GWB was sending checks more or less openly to have Ukraine playing the role of "in between" due to its position on the way from Russia to European Union ... (the fear = Ru/EU getting a bit too close to each other ... )
soon it is going to be election in Ukraine , Yulia has definitely scored a very good mark against other competitors ...
by getting back a little sens , she has managed to understand that the previous US checks are going to bounce now ...
that is the main issue with betrayers , as soon as they see it fit , they betray you for what they see better ...!
so she swallowed her pride and went to Moscow , making a deal with what was Evil in her eyes , not long ago ...
but her score came heavy on the Ukrainians , sooner or later the Gas transit is going to be memory (south and north pipelines) , Gas price is an announced near death state for the Ukrainian industrial production (in its actual form ...)
once again , it is a short term political decision aimed at benefiting someone from the serail !
so , it may be the case that the Gas Transit problems are over for a while (doubtful !) but it will be to the price of a deeper crisis , in this place on the way from European Union to Russia ...
A Crisis both Russia and E.U. CANNOT afford not to fix in a way or an other ...
long term cooperation between E.U. and Russia is therefor even more essential than before !
so thanks a lot to all the team of R.T. for bringing UNbiased news about Russia (at least to bring an other point of view )
joseph January 20, 2009, 13:32
Ukraine govt is not the only ones who cant pay thier gas bills,in england,the legalised gas companies have hiked prices as much as 35 percent,dont pay ,and thier legalised thugs will come and cut you off.anyway russia is only asking what other european countries pay for thier gas.ps ukraine is part of the eu,i think?,they can ask the eu.for cash. Vijay January 20, 2009, 13:32
U can bet ur last pajamas that Yush will raise the bogey when the time for next payment comes along!!
He wants anyhow, anyways, anymeans present a fait accompli to his non-orange successors that Ukraine cannot survive being under Russia's gas pressure tactics (Phew!!)and somehow or the other has to come under EU's financial umbrella...!!
Vadim 25 January 20, 2009, 09:27
It is clear that Ukraine has chosen wrong position in gas conflict. As well as it is clear that Putin is again successful and has shown himself as a strong and willingful politician. I do hope that Timoshenko will restore Ukraine transit country's reputation by fulfilling the agreement. Good Luck Yulia! TRIATHLON January 20, 2009, 04:19
WHO IS THE UKRAINE PAY MASTER?
Is this the really the end of the gas dispute? NO! You can bet dollars to donuts that the (IRI) International Republican Institute of the (USI/MIC) United States of Israel, Military Industrial Complex will create as much mischief to prevent end this dispute as posssible.
Comrade Chairman Putin of the Russian Federation met with his neighbors to sort a longstanding impasse over mineral rights underneath the Caspian Sea, where an estimated (257) two-hundred fifty seven trillion cubic feet in natural gas reserves have yet to be developed. Today three new countries, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and. The (IRI) web site showed and active and on going interest in Georgia oil pipeline, the (IRI) expected to refine the oil coming from the pipeline built to circumvent the Russian in return. A (USI/MIC)-led militarization of Georgia, which likely emboldened the former Soviet Republic to try to resolve the conflict over South Ossetia by military means. "Israel Backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia.
Does Ukraine play fair? It's not a matter of playing fair it's who paying the price on what the point spread should be, how many goals do you want missed and how much are you willing to pay? Donald Fraser January 19, 2009, 22:03
It is satisfying to see that Russia and Ukrainia can come to a mutual understanding on the transit of Russian gas to Europe through Ukrainia.
Even with increased independence of former Soviet republics in the modern world, cooperation and mutual problem-solving skills call for closeness and intimacy in the solutions necessary for nations living in an interdependent world. Margaret January 19, 2009, 19:08
It is the end of this episode of the ongoing gas dispute. It is only a battle, not the war. There is no way Ukraine can continue to pay for its gas; they could not pay for the low prices in 2008 and certainly cannot afford the higher prices in 2009. Ukraine cannot play fair, because they have no money. All they in their favor is propaganda and the EU distrust of Russia. Ukraine is going to play that gambit again, to hold Europe hostage while they point tearfully at Moscow, "they are being mean to us! boo-hoo!" I expect it later this year. And Russia will be the bad guy, again. noe January 19, 2009, 18:37
Ukraine is highly unreliable, Thymoshenko has good will to Russia, but Yushenko doesn't, the question is: does Thymoshenko have enough authority to end up the dispute by this last agreement? the answer is no she doesn't, so let's see what happens, Ukraine = unreliable
Re: EXTRA: EU says NO Ukraine siphoning of Russia gas ! - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
posts from <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.russiatoday.com/forums/News/topic/203">http://www.russiatoday.com/forums/News/topic/203</a><!-- m -->
Marko January 21, 2009, 05:05
I think this is not the end of the gas dispute.Because the USA(satana)will tray some other vay to make more problems to Russia.
Long live greatest Russia.Broter tzar Putin and Medvedev GOD bless you and our mother Russia.
Serb who love Russsia and Serb come from Republic Srbska
Mihal Mihalich January 21, 2009, 04:27
Dear Ladies & Gentlemen
Lets get to the basics.
During 2008 Ukraine was buying Russian gas for 169$ for 1000 cubes and selling it for ALL Ukraine private and business sector for almost 300$. And ALL gas consumers: private, corporate and government have paid their bills for gas. ALL OF THEM. That means Ukraine HAS about twice much money they supposed to have to payoff 2 billions $ debt to Gasprom.
Ukraine asks for 2 billion $ credit claiming it doesn’t have the money, European bankers what how Ukraine currency inflating and that despite 18 billion$ they already loaned them Ukraine still comes short every year and in current Financial credit crisis banks are not willing to grand them a loan.
Ukraine singed transit charter that they guaranty energy transit no matter what. And January 1 2009 new contract gas for Ukraine was not signed, Ukraine siphoned gas from European pipeline and 6 days later stopped transit completely. Ukraine needs 1 pipeline and they closed 4 channeling all gas for themselves. Which is why Gas didn’t go though Ukraine at first attempt. TRANSIT pipeline was EMPTY while it supposed to constantly have over 100 million cubes of gas in it at all times(if I understand it correctly).
Ukraine has the money to pay for gas but they don’t.
Ukraine refused to sign best deal on the market right now of 250$ per 1000 cubic miters.
Ukraine ignored transit charter obligations to Europe and cut them gas without any warning.
It was PURELY Political decision that came from Ukraine president himself, and it originated from Nabucco pipeline scammers. The people who underestimated their desire to have energy security. Europe would rather send NATO troops to guard transit pipeline then invest into Nabucco and become vulnerable to many more unstable transit countries. Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Turkey already made their choice. They choose Russia.
Now Nabucco authors see a need to destabilize Ukraine as much as they can to create risks or gas piracy for years so it would make Europe unstable forcing investment capital to go to other countries like United States for example. Clinton Democrats will ensure Europe high risks Years. So I think as long as Americans have their man in Ukraine, Europe will have no guaranties for transit.
Standard and Poors will make sure that everybody has lower ratings than United States for next 100 years and offer World to buy sub prime derivatives version 2.0;
News Corp, CNN, BBC etc will advertise Failed Europe and Triple A sub prime derivatives versions 2 and 3
And Europe will be stuck with unpredictable Orange and Rose revolution fans for as long as they support it.
Best regards
russ January 20, 2009, 22:35
Timoshenko supposedly still wants Ukraine in NATO and the EU so this is far from over.
I personally doubt Ukraine will ever be in NATO considering now that Russia has a veto over NATO operations in part due to NATO needed Russian transit to resupply forces in Afghanistan and other major NATO powers like France and Germany do not want Ukraine in NATO because they do not want any possible conflict with Russia over Ukraine. France and Germany want energy and Russia provides that they see no need for a military conflict with Russia. Josh January 20, 2009, 18:31
It is clear, that Russia is implementing the plan to gain the control the all gas transporting system of the former USSR. It almoust got the control of the Belarus pipes, and wants to control Ukrainian. And all this theater which we saw during the last 3 week - it's just the big game of negotiating who will bite bigger part of the money cake. David January 20, 2009, 16:09
The Western Media have said that it is Russia who has turned on the taps, again. They have made it sound like it was Russia all along when, in fact, it has been Ukraine all along.
Russia needs to step up its activities in organising another route for the transfer of gas and oil, skirting Ukraine.
Trust Ukraine, never in a month of Sundays. Just turn the gas supply off to Ukraine the second they fail to pay. Make Ukraine pay up front - no money no service. fred January 20, 2009, 13:39
is this the end of crisis ?
i don't think so !
Ukraine is living on 2 items : Industrial production (heavilly dependent on Gas price) and Gas transit ...
up to now , GWB was sending checks more or less openly to have Ukraine playing the role of "in between" due to its position on the way from Russia to European Union ... (the fear = Ru/EU getting a bit too close to each other ... )
soon it is going to be election in Ukraine , Yulia has definitely scored a very good mark against other competitors ...
by getting back a little sens , she has managed to understand that the previous US checks are going to bounce now ...
that is the main issue with betrayers , as soon as they see it fit , they betray you for what they see better ...!
so she swallowed her pride and went to Moscow , making a deal with what was Evil in her eyes , not long ago ...
but her score came heavy on the Ukrainians , sooner or later the Gas transit is going to be memory (south and north pipelines) , Gas price is an announced near death state for the Ukrainian industrial production (in its actual form ...)
once again , it is a short term political decision aimed at benefiting someone from the serail !
so , it may be the case that the Gas Transit problems are over for a while (doubtful !) but it will be to the price of a deeper crisis , in this place on the way from European Union to Russia ...
A Crisis both Russia and E.U. CANNOT afford not to fix in a way or an other ...
long term cooperation between E.U. and Russia is therefor even more essential than before !
so thanks a lot to all the team of R.T. for bringing UNbiased news about Russia (at least to bring an other point of view )
joseph January 20, 2009, 13:32
Ukraine govt is not the only ones who cant pay thier gas bills,in england,the legalised gas companies have hiked prices as much as 35 percent,dont pay ,and thier legalised thugs will come and cut you off.anyway russia is only asking what other european countries pay for thier gas.ps ukraine is part of the eu,i think?,they can ask the eu.for cash. Vijay January 20, 2009, 13:32
U can bet ur last pajamas that Yush will raise the bogey when the time for next payment comes along!!
He wants anyhow, anyways, anymeans present a fait accompli to his non-orange successors that Ukraine cannot survive being under Russia's gas pressure tactics (Phew!!)and somehow or the other has to come under EU's financial umbrella...!!
Vadim 25 January 20, 2009, 09:27
It is clear that Ukraine has chosen wrong position in gas conflict. As well as it is clear that Putin is again successful and has shown himself as a strong and willingful politician. I do hope that Timoshenko will restore Ukraine transit country's reputation by fulfilling the agreement. Good Luck Yulia! TRIATHLON January 20, 2009, 04:19
WHO IS THE UKRAINE PAY MASTER?
Is this the really the end of the gas dispute? NO! You can bet dollars to donuts that the (IRI) International Republican Institute of the (USI/MIC) United States of Israel, Military Industrial Complex will create as much mischief to prevent end this dispute as posssible.
Comrade Chairman Putin of the Russian Federation met with his neighbors to sort a longstanding impasse over mineral rights underneath the Caspian Sea, where an estimated (257) two-hundred fifty seven trillion cubic feet in natural gas reserves have yet to be developed. Today three new countries, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and. The (IRI) web site showed and active and on going interest in Georgia oil pipeline, the (IRI) expected to refine the oil coming from the pipeline built to circumvent the Russian in return. A (USI/MIC)-led militarization of Georgia, which likely emboldened the former Soviet Republic to try to resolve the conflict over South Ossetia by military means. "Israel Backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia.
Does Ukraine play fair? It's not a matter of playing fair it's who paying the price on what the point spread should be, how many goals do you want missed and how much are you willing to pay? Donald Fraser January 19, 2009, 22:03
It is satisfying to see that Russia and Ukrainia can come to a mutual understanding on the transit of Russian gas to Europe through Ukrainia.
Even with increased independence of former Soviet republics in the modern world, cooperation and mutual problem-solving skills call for closeness and intimacy in the solutions necessary for nations living in an interdependent world. Margaret January 19, 2009, 19:08
It is the end of this episode of the ongoing gas dispute. It is only a battle, not the war. There is no way Ukraine can continue to pay for its gas; they could not pay for the low prices in 2008 and certainly cannot afford the higher prices in 2009. Ukraine cannot play fair, because they have no money. All they in their favor is propaganda and the EU distrust of Russia. Ukraine is going to play that gambit again, to hold Europe hostage while they point tearfully at Moscow, "they are being mean to us! boo-hoo!" I expect it later this year. And Russia will be the bad guy, again. noe January 19, 2009, 18:37
Ukraine is highly unreliable, Thymoshenko has good will to Russia, but Yushenko doesn't, the question is: does Thymoshenko have enough authority to end up the dispute by this last agreement? the answer is no she doesn't, so let's see what happens, Ukraine = unreliable
Re: Russia-Ukraine gas conflict - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
Posts from <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.russiatoday.com/forums/News/topic/203">http://www.russiatoday.com/forums/News/topic/203</a><!-- m -->
Marko January 21, 2009, 05:05
I think this is not the end of the gas dispute.Because the USA(satana)will tray some other vay to make more problems to Russia.
Long live greatest Russia.Broter tzar Putin and Medvedev GOD bless you and our mother Russia.
Serb who love Russsia and Serb come from Republic Srbska
Mihal Mihalich January 21, 2009, 04:27
Dear Ladies & Gentlemen
Lets get to the basics.
During 2008 Ukraine was buying Russian gas for 169$ for 1000 cubes and selling it for ALL Ukraine private and business sector for almost 300$. And ALL gas consumers: private, corporate and government have paid their bills for gas. ALL OF THEM. That means Ukraine HAS about twice much money they supposed to have to payoff 2 billions $ debt to Gasprom.
Ukraine asks for 2 billion $ credit claiming it doesn’t have the money, European bankers what how Ukraine currency inflating and that despite 18 billion$ they already loaned them Ukraine still comes short every year and in current Financial credit crisis banks are not willing to grand them a loan.
Ukraine singed transit charter that they guaranty energy transit no matter what. And January 1 2009 new contract gas for Ukraine was not signed, Ukraine siphoned gas from European pipeline and 6 days later stopped transit completely. Ukraine needs 1 pipeline and they closed 4 channeling all gas for themselves. Which is why Gas didn’t go though Ukraine at first attempt. TRANSIT pipeline was EMPTY while it supposed to constantly have over 100 million cubes of gas in it at all times(if I understand it correctly).
Ukraine has the money to pay for gas but they don’t.
Ukraine refused to sign best deal on the market right now of 250$ per 1000 cubic miters.
Ukraine ignored transit charter obligations to Europe and cut them gas without any warning.
It was PURELY Political decision that came from Ukraine president himself, and it originated from Nabucco pipeline scammers. The people who underestimated their desire to have energy security. Europe would rather send NATO troops to guard transit pipeline then invest into Nabucco and become vulnerable to many more unstable transit countries. Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Turkey already made their choice. They choose Russia.
Now Nabucco authors see a need to destabilize Ukraine as much as they can to create risks or gas piracy for years so it would make Europe unstable forcing investment capital to go to other countries like United States for example. Clinton Democrats will ensure Europe high risks Years. So I think as long as Americans have their man in Ukraine, Europe will have no guaranties for transit.
Standard and Poors will make sure that everybody has lower ratings than United States for next 100 years and offer World to buy sub prime derivatives version 2.0;
News Corp, CNN, BBC etc will advertise Failed Europe and Triple A sub prime derivatives versions 2 and 3
And Europe will be stuck with unpredictable Orange and Rose revolution fans for as long as they support it.
Best regards
russ January 20, 2009, 22:35
Timoshenko supposedly still wants Ukraine in NATO and the EU so this is far from over.
I personally doubt Ukraine will ever be in NATO considering now that Russia has a veto over NATO operations in part due to NATO needed Russian transit to resupply forces in Afghanistan and other major NATO powers like France and Germany do not want Ukraine in NATO because they do not want any possible conflict with Russia over Ukraine. France and Germany want energy and Russia provides that they see no need for a military conflict with Russia. Josh January 20, 2009, 18:31
It is clear, that Russia is implementing the plan to gain the control the all gas transporting system of the former USSR. It almoust got the control of the Belarus pipes, and wants to control Ukrainian. And all this theater which we saw during the last 3 week - it's just the big game of negotiating who will bite bigger part of the money cake. David January 20, 2009, 16:09
The Western Media have said that it is Russia who has turned on the taps, again. They have made it sound like it was Russia all along when, in fact, it has been Ukraine all along.
Russia needs to step up its activities in organising another route for the transfer of gas and oil, skirting Ukraine.
Trust Ukraine, never in a month of Sundays. Just turn the gas supply off to Ukraine the second they fail to pay. Make Ukraine pay up front - no money no service. fred January 20, 2009, 13:39
is this the end of crisis ?
i don't think so !
Ukraine is living on 2 items : Industrial production (heavilly dependent on Gas price) and Gas transit ...
up to now , GWB was sending checks more or less openly to have Ukraine playing the role of "in between" due to its position on the way from Russia to European Union ... (the fear = Ru/EU getting a bit too close to each other ... )
soon it is going to be election in Ukraine , Yulia has definitely scored a very good mark against other competitors ...
by getting back a little sens , she has managed to understand that the previous US checks are going to bounce now ...
that is the main issue with betrayers , as soon as they see it fit , they betray you for what they see better ...!
so she swallowed her pride and went to Moscow , making a deal with what was Evil in her eyes , not long ago ...
but her score came heavy on the Ukrainians , sooner or later the Gas transit is going to be memory (south and north pipelines) , Gas price is an announced near death state for the Ukrainian industrial production (in its actual form ...)
once again , it is a short term political decision aimed at benefiting someone from the serail !
so , it may be the case that the Gas Transit problems are over for a while (doubtful !) but it will be to the price of a deeper crisis , in this place on the way from European Union to Russia ...
A Crisis both Russia and E.U. CANNOT afford not to fix in a way or an other ...
long term cooperation between E.U. and Russia is therefor even more essential than before !
so thanks a lot to all the team of R.T. for bringing UNbiased news about Russia (at least to bring an other point of view )
joseph January 20, 2009, 13:32
Ukraine govt is not the only ones who cant pay thier gas bills,in england,the legalised gas companies have hiked prices as much as 35 percent,dont pay ,and thier legalised thugs will come and cut you off.anyway russia is only asking what other european countries pay for thier gas.ps ukraine is part of the eu,i think?,they can ask the eu.for cash. Vijay January 20, 2009, 13:32
U can bet ur last pajamas that Yush will raise the bogey when the time for next payment comes along!!
He wants anyhow, anyways, anymeans present a fait accompli to his non-orange successors that Ukraine cannot survive being under Russia's gas pressure tactics (Phew!!)and somehow or the other has to come under EU's financial umbrella...!!
Vadim 25 January 20, 2009, 09:27
It is clear that Ukraine has chosen wrong position in gas conflict. As well as it is clear that Putin is again successful and has shown himself as a strong and willingful politician. I do hope that Timoshenko will restore Ukraine transit country's reputation by fulfilling the agreement. Good Luck Yulia! TRIATHLON January 20, 2009, 04:19
WHO IS THE UKRAINE PAY MASTER?
Is this the really the end of the gas dispute? NO! You can bet dollars to donuts that the (IRI) International Republican Institute of the (USI/MIC) United States of Israel, Military Industrial Complex will create as much mischief to prevent end this dispute as posssible.
Comrade Chairman Putin of the Russian Federation met with his neighbors to sort a longstanding impasse over mineral rights underneath the Caspian Sea, where an estimated (257) two-hundred fifty seven trillion cubic feet in natural gas reserves have yet to be developed. Today three new countries, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and. The (IRI) web site showed and active and on going interest in Georgia oil pipeline, the (IRI) expected to refine the oil coming from the pipeline built to circumvent the Russian in return. A (USI/MIC)-led militarization of Georgia, which likely emboldened the former Soviet Republic to try to resolve the conflict over South Ossetia by military means. "Israel Backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia.
Does Ukraine play fair? It's not a matter of playing fair it's who paying the price on what the point spread should be, how many goals do you want missed and how much are you willing to pay? Donald Fraser January 19, 2009, 22:03
It is satisfying to see that Russia and Ukrainia can come to a mutual understanding on the transit of Russian gas to Europe through Ukrainia.
Even with increased independence of former Soviet republics in the modern world, cooperation and mutual problem-solving skills call for closeness and intimacy in the solutions necessary for nations living in an interdependent world. Margaret January 19, 2009, 19:08
It is the end of this episode of the ongoing gas dispute. It is only a battle, not the war. There is no way Ukraine can continue to pay for its gas; they could not pay for the low prices in 2008 and certainly cannot afford the higher prices in 2009. Ukraine cannot play fair, because they have no money. All they in their favor is propaganda and the EU distrust of Russia. Ukraine is going to play that gambit again, to hold Europe hostage while they point tearfully at Moscow, "they are being mean to us! boo-hoo!" I expect it later this year. And Russia will be the bad guy, again. noe January 19, 2009, 18:37
Ukraine is highly unreliable, Thymoshenko has good will to Russia, but Yushenko doesn't, the question is: does Thymoshenko have enough authority to end up the dispute by this last agreement? the answer is no she doesn't, so let's see what happens, Ukraine = unreliable
Reply to Max on Russian-European gas conflict - BK - 01-21-2009
Max Wrote:BK, a million of regrets for loosing your great reply, my fault particularly … Yep, Brzezinski articles are far not entertainment; Washington oracles are completely merciless as regards the Russia. The sad truth is he never was wrong before.
Max, as you know Brzezinski, is a child of the cold war era (so is Putin and many of Russia and Ukraines current elite, and me too, for that matter.) Brzezinski has extreme views and although he has been accurate on many ocassions, I would prefer to believe that despite the postings from Moscal, sektor_Gaza et al, there is an emerging consciousness among the emerging Russian middleclass that Russia must change both its perceptions about the world, and about itself in order to be successful in the post soviet world. Perhaps I am dreaming. But if it does not do this then the majority of the Russian population is doomed to continue living in primitive poverty and those Russians who do not live in poverty will live in fear of their own rulers. Its their choice, although they dont seem to understand that.
To Russian guys who brag about so called “might” and “power” of a single country. If your country depends on West in export and import on 90% and it depends on former Soviet republics where you have only Belorus among obvious satellites on 10%... don’t you think your entire future depends on them, on their will to cooperate with Russia or not?
The idea of mutual interdependence is still not understood in Russia. (It IS understood in China.) The U.S. is not the world superpower because people are afraid of it. Paraphrasing Obama, a country is respected for what it can build, not for what it can destroy. For all of its stupidities, the United States is still a master builder. Russia has an educated population, plenty of living space, an incredible wealth of natural resources. But the majority of its peoples live in abysmal poverty. Why? It is tragic.
The consequences of declaring the gas war on those your are in fact dependant upon may lead to economical catastrophe much faster then it happened 17 years ago.
I suspect that Putin is beginning to realise this. It is not enough to hire public relations people to create an image. There must be substance behind the image. Putin has a chance to undo all of the damage that has been done and even to turn the anger to Russias advantage. Putin should publicly and unequivocably apologise to Europe for shutting off their gas and offer to compensate them for all of their damages. That simple act could change the world for the better .
Re: Reply to Max on Russian-European gas conflict - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
BK Wrote:Max Wrote:BK, a million of regrets for loosing your great reply, my fault particularly … Yep, Brzezinski articles are far not entertainment; Washington oracles are completely merciless as regards the Russia. The sad truth is he never was wrong before.
Max, as you know Brzezinski, is a child of the cold war era (so is Putin and many of Russia and Ukraines current elite, and me too, for that matter.) Brzezinski has extreme views and although he has been accurate on many ocassions, I would prefer to believe that despite the postings from Moscal, sektor_Gaza et al, there is an emerging consciousness among the emerging Russian middleclass that Russia must change both its perceptions about the world, and about itself in order to be successful in the post soviet world. Perhaps I am dreaming. But if it does not do this then the majority of the Russian population is doomed to continue living in primitive poverty and those Russians who do not live in poverty will live in fear of their own rulers. Its their choice, although they dont seem to understand that.
To Russian guys who brag about so called “might” and “power” of a single country. If your country depends on West in export and import on 90% and it depends on former Soviet republics where you have only Belorus among obvious satellites on 10%... don’t you think your entire future depends on them, on their will to cooperate with Russia or not?
The idea of mutual interdependence is still not understood in Russia. (It IS understood in China.) The U.S. is not the world superpower because people are afraid of it. Paraphrasing Obama, a country is respected for what it can build, not for what it can destroy. For all of its stupidities, the United States is still a master builder. Russia has an educated population, plenty of living space, an incredible wealth of natural resources. But the majority of its peoples live in abysmal poverty. Why? It is tragic.
The consequences of declaring the gas war on those your are in fact dependant upon may lead to economical catastrophe much faster then it happened 17 years ago.
I suspect that Putin is beginning to realise this. It is not enough to hire public relations people to create an image. There must be substance behind the image. Putin has a chance to undo all of the damage that has been done and even to turn the anger to Russias advantage. Putin should publicly and unequivocably apologise to Europe for shutting off their gas and offer to compensate them for all of their damages. That simple act could change the world for the better .
Не дождётесь!
Re: Reply on Russian-European gas conflict - BK - 01-21-2009
Max: The consequences of declaring the gas war on those your are in fact dependant upon may lead to economical catastrophe much faster then it happened 17 years ago.[/quote]
BK: I suspect that Putin is beginning to realise this. It is not enough to hire public relations people to create an image. There must be substance behind the image. Putin has a chance to undo all of the damage that has been done and even to turn the anger to Russias advantage. Putin should publicly and unequivocably apologise to Europe for shutting off their gas and offer to compensate them for all of their damages. That simple act could change the world for the better .[/quote]
sektor_Gaza: Не дождётесь![/quote]
BK: Any man who has an argument with a woman knows that the most effective way to end it is to say "You are right, I'm sooooo sorry, what can I do to make you forgive me?" Of course, she may yell and scream a little longer but in most cases the fight is over. I know that making an apology and accepting responsibilty is alien to the Russian mentality. That is precisely why it would be so effective. I am not saying that Putin has to really mean it, only that he should say it and give Europe a few flowers and a box of chocolates, or in this case, maybe a diamond necklace.
Re: Russia-Ukraine gas conflict - Kusnetsov - 01-21-2009
Quote:I know that making an apology and accepting responsibilty is alien to the Russian mentalityYou don't know Russians.
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Moskal - 01-21-2009
Guest Wrote:Moskal Wrote:I work as part of a big international PR team based all over the world. We are engaged by Gazprom. And one of our tasks is to provide to the client RELIABLE info on how is Gazprom perceived by media, governments, general public, etc. (as opposed to pleasing info only - just in case for any of your speculation. Inter alia, we provide daily reports on US and EU media coverage regarding Gazprom. All the above said allows me (and anybody else with brain not washed by local media) to believe that I am much better informed than probably anyone else here.
Mr. Moskal, Thank you for telling us that you work in public relations for Gazprom and the Russian government. That explains what you and your coworkers are doing on this forum (and on a lot of other internet sites.) You are working. Your job is to distract, confuse, obscure, distort, spin, misrepresent and lie in order to protect Russias image. Obviously you cannot tell the truth here, even if you know the truth, which we doubt. If you did know the truth or tell the truth then you would lose your job, got to jail or get a bullet in your head like Stanislav Markelov. So we forgive you.
Conspiracy theory is a well-known syndrom. However, every single word about the "job to distract, confuse, obscure, distort, spin, misrepresent and lie in order to protect Russias image" needs to be proven. Besides, you insulted not only me, but my colleagues.
And finally, Ukrainian Guest, maybe your own newsparer is a better source for you - facts they describe coincides with what I wrote here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2009/1/21/88199.htm">http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2009/1/21/88199.htm</a><!-- m -->
Re: Russian Gas flows back to EU! Who said gas was over? - Guest - 01-21-2009
You forgot to mention that Russia had bought Turkmenian gas
and paid extra price for it by the way))of course you have enough gas now :haha
Sektor_Gaza, you look like zombie with your maniac ideas about Mr. Putin. You are unable to see the real facts and discuss the matter. And I am very sorry about you
You like Putin's policy? So it is your right and your choice, but not the choice of Ukraininas. You think he's a great person and good ruler? Maybe for you, but not for me. My opinion that he is a great lier and a terrsorist! He tried to discredit my country and make Ukrainians and Europeans suffering. EU officials clearly reported that they DO NOT HAVE any evidence that Ukraine has stolen gas! So, Mr. Putin is a LIER!!!
Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - Ukrainian - 01-21-2009
sektor_Gaza Wrote:Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps onDoes somebody had to send true information about ukrainian people rather than calling"a spammer"?
by sektor_Gaza on Today, 06:03
Ukrainian wrote:
i had never heard about"Rosukrenergo"etc,before this New Year,and I DON"T WANT TO know about it,
i want to pay my bills and to provide normal life.
I STOPPED my normal life and i started to post in here.
Stop being a spammer! No one here is against you! Live a good life and enjoy it! I truly wish we would have some pleasant moments to discuss rather than scandals.
Could You,please, discuss,pleasant moment about work of Ukrainian people like my Father thanking to what You can use today Internet from satellite...!
Re: Reply to Max on Russian-European gas conflict - Moskal - 01-21-2009
BK Wrote:I suspect that Putin is beginning to realise this. It is not enough to hire public relations people to create an image. There must be substance behind the image. Putin has a chance to undo all of the damage that has been done and even to turn the anger to Russias advantage. Putin should publicly and unequivocably apologise to Europe for shutting off their gas and offer to compensate them for all of their damages. That simple act could change the world for the better .
Professor!
You amaze me more and more. Are you a Law assistant professor as you claim or somewhat else. You obviously can read and understand Russian (at least) and you continue acting as an agent provocateur on this forum.
Please answer a few questions honestly (if by honesty you mean the same thing as I do - I'm not sure):
1. What Gazprom has to do with Putin if not considering the fact that the government owns its controlling stake?
2. Is Gazprom the only company in the world to hire PR people? If not, please explain if it is a STANDARD PRACTICE, i.e. hiring PR services by big companies or not?
3. If Putin (or rather the Russian government) hired PR (let's assume they did), is it the only government who uses PR, or there are other countires as well? If there are, can you name them please?
As to your usual spin (see above) - Gazprom had warned the EU long before the Ukrainian crisis that it might happen. The EU did not take any measures and preferred waiting for developents until they happened. So, what should Gazprom apologize for and why then?
As to " changing the world for the better" the best way to achieve it is changing "for the better" the western arrogant attitude towards the rest of the world, including the Ukraine and its people btw, which is used by the west as a cannonfodder in a way.
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Canpee Further - 01-21-2009
Moskal Wrote:Guest Wrote:Moskal Wrote:I work as part of a big international PR team based all over the world. We are engaged by Gazprom. And one of our tasks is to provide to the client RELIABLE info on how is Gazprom perceived by media, governments, general public, etc. (as opposed to pleasing info only - just in case for any of your speculation. Inter alia, we provide daily reports on US and EU media coverage regarding Gazprom. All the above said allows me (and anybody else with brain not washed by local media) to believe that I am much better informed than probably anyone else here.
Mr. Moskal, Thank you for telling us that you work in public relations for Gazprom and the Russian government. That explains what you and your coworkers are doing on this forum (and on a lot of other internet sites.) You are working. Your job is to distract, confuse, obscure, distort, spin, misrepresent and lie in order to protect Russias image. Obviously you cannot tell the truth here, even if you know the truth, which we doubt. If you did know the truth or tell the truth then you would lose your job, got to jail or get a bullet in your head like Stanislav Markelov. So we forgive you.
Conspiracy theory is a well-known syndrom. However, every single word about the "job to distract, confuse, obscure, distort, spin, misrepresent and lie in order to protect Russias image" needs to be proven. Besides, you insulted not only me, but my colleagues.
And finally, Ukrainian Guest, maybe your own newsparer is a better source for you - facts they describe coincides with what I wrote here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2009/1/21/88199.htm">http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2009/1/21/88199.htm</a><!-- m -->
Oй oй oй! Conspiracy theory is a well-known syndrom??? Every word has to be proven??? You have been insulted?????? Oй oй oй! You poor little boy!!! Of course, we all know that it is ok for YOU, the mighty Russian purveyor of truth, to insult everyone who disagrees with you, and, of course, it is ok for YOU, the defender of the mighty Russia, to write anything you want without any proof and it is ok for YOU, the objective Russian patriot, to write about mysterious secret agreements and western conspiracies against poor innocent Russia. But now you and your colleagues are insulted???? GROW UP AND STOP CRYING LIKE A BABY. Get a real job. But of course, to do that, you will have to emigrate, otherwise you will go to jail or get a bullet in your head like Stanislav Markelov (which probably wont kill you because you do not seem to have a brain anyway)
Re: Russian Gas flows back to EU! Who said gas was over? - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
Guest Wrote:You forgot to mention that Russia had bought Turkmenian gas
of course you have enough gas now :haha
Sektor_Gaza, you look like zombie with your maniac ideas about Mr. Putin. You are unable to see the real facts and discuss the matter. And I am very sorry about you
the one laughs best who laughs last!
Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
Ukrainian Wrote:sektor_Gaza Wrote:Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps onDoes somebody had to send true information about ukrainian people rather than calling"a spammer"?
by sektor_Gaza on Today, 06:03
Ukrainian wrote:
i had never heard about"Rosukrenergo"etc,before this New Year,and I DON"T WANT TO know about it,
i want to pay my bills and to provide normal life.
I STOPPED my normal life and i started to post in here.
Stop being a spammer! No one here is against you! Live a good life and enjoy it! I truly wish we would have some pleasant moments to discuss rather than scandals.
Could You,please, discuss,pleasant moment about work of Ukrainian people like my Father thanking to what You can use today Internet from satellite...!
Why you are provoking me? I called you a spammer as you started posting the same message everywhere regardless the sense! Ukrainians are good people and clever enough! Change your mind! Be friendly!
Re: Reply on Russian-European gas conflict - Moskal - 01-21-2009
BK Wrote:I know that making an apology and accepting responsibilty is alien to the Russian mentality. That is precisely why it would be so effective.
Professor, making such statements is NOT politically correct, is it?
Are you saying that ALL RUSSIANS without exception never apologize and are always irresponsible for their deeds?
Isn't it a bit risky to say and write such things or russophobe statements are welcomed in Europe?
Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - sektor_Gaza - 01-21-2009
Dear Ukrainian,
I have great respect to your father!!!!