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+--- Thread: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? (/thread-1734.html)
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Eka - 08-20-2008
Russia not agressor Wrote:хахаха))) Мы ударились лицом в грязь?????? Да ты что, как раз наоборот...
Лады, слушай тогда вот что...
))) Грузию напихали НАТОВским оружием... они оставили когда бежали боевой техники и вооружений на 3 миллиарда долларов 6))) откуда у Грузии такие деньги?
ситуация следующая Грузию несколько лет накачивали оружием... Я приводил примеры.... в 2008 году Военный Бюджет Грузии составил более 900 млн. долларов. России более 20 млрд. долларов.... США более 600 млрд. Украны 2 млрд.
.... Но когда США поняли, что грузины не успели взять Осетию до того как вмешалась Россия а в итоге просто бегут...ограничилась "Резкими заявлениями" на которые Россия плевать хотела.... вот и получилось... сначала пихали в спинку когда в драку нужно было лезть, а когда пришло время вступится просто .умыли руки....
И вообще я за МИР!!! Нам не нужна ЭТА война!!! Просто в Осетии 90% с русским гражданством, что бы ты сделал на месте Медведева? Просто смотрел бы на смерть??? И как ты прокоментируешь мне слова Райз, что типо почему это Сибирь должна принадлежать только России??? И давай без оскорблений, у каждого своя точка зрения, мы же цивилизованные люди)))))))) respect
Russns have proverb:
Smeiotsa tot kto smeiotsa poslednim.
Your ideas are like Pavel Morozovs , I recomend you to read our all pages in this topic and then posheveli mozgami.
And you know whole world media is showing how Russian colonel and soldgers are steeling Amerikan navis Hamers from POti port. Maybe you suppose that it represents yiour glory, but world suppose that it is great shame ( pozo po vashemu).
If Russia will continue to " plevat xotela" you will never see European resorts in future, which your taicuns love so much, and then HUGE problems insiade your govermant and prezidents will begin.
Historicaly - every such mistake of Russia throws it to regression and destraction of itself.
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Tatiana_Kirovsk - 08-20-2008
I just recently have found blog <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.antiwar.com">http://www.antiwar.com</a><!-- w -->
Would you please to read and watch it!
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/08/14/american-girl-interviewed-on-fox-news-we-were-running-from-georgian-troops-thank-you-to-russian-troops/">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/08/14/ ... an-troops/</a><!-- m -->
------------------------------------------------------------
Some comments from there:
"Comment by Joe
2008-08-14 23:27:13
Goodness, truth from Fox News! I was not sure who was the original aggressor until I heard that -good job!. I suspect Russia has been ratcheting up tensions for quite some time and all they needed was an excuse for a pre-planned military operation. However, this young girl makes a very compelling witness implicating Georgian Government in mass murder their own citizens - committing war crimes of which there is no excuse and erases any good will or moral authority they gain by helping us in Iraq. Smells like another shameful, incompetent job by Condi Rice formulating a policy of arming and encouraging these morons.
Reply to this comment
Comment by Rah
2008-08-15 00:08:46
Comment by Ali
2008-08-15 05:54:31
To top of the lies she has told and crimes she has committed against humanity in her roles in the Bush administration, Condoleezza Rice fails with a bang, and with characteristic criminality, at her supposed specialty: Sovietology. She has declared that she is going back to "Academic Life" after the Bush presidency. Is it that the American Academia has become the last refuge of the scoundrel?
Reply to this comment
Comment by Ali
2008-08-15 05:54:31"
-----------------------------------------------
It's not me (naive Tatiana). It's jast ordinary US men!!!!
You are welcome!
Go ahead, pro-Saakasvili people! All together now…
"Keep your mouth closed...better for you and for the rest..
You have no right speeking about anything.(by IamGEORGIA on 16 Aug 2008, 20:48
), I would reccomend you to rely on Mr. Lukashenko and Hesbola.(by Frederic on Today, 09:11 ) , that was an interview of a little girl that said she didn't see or hear any bombarding,……….People in US don't even watch it! It's a mascaraed, a moppets Show. (by Lor on Yesterday, 15:47) and so on.
-----------------------------------------------
Indeed, very laughable!!!! (Oops,too late by now.... )
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Frederic - 08-20-2008
Russia not agressor Wrote:хахаха))) Мы ударились лицом в грязь?????? Да ты что, как раз наоборот...
Лады, слушай тогда вот что...
ситуация следующая Грузию несколько лет накачивали оружием... Я приводил примеры.... в 2008 году Военный Бюджет Грузии составил более 900 млн. долларов. России более 20 млрд. долларов.... США более 600 млрд. Украны 2 млрд.
.... Но когда США поняли, что грузины не успели взять Осетию до того как вмешалась Россия а в итоге просто бегут...ограничилась "Резкими заявлениями" на которые Россия плевать хотела.... вот и получилось... сначала пихали в спинку когда в драку нужно было лезть, а когда пришло время вступится просто .умыли руки....
И вообще я за МИР!!! Нам не нужна ЭТА война!!! Просто в Осетии 90% с русским гражданством, что бы ты сделал на месте Медведева? Просто смотрел бы на смерть??? И как ты прокоментируешь мне слова Райз, что типо почему это Сибирь должна принадлежать только России??? И давай без оскорблений, у каждого своя точка зрения, мы же цивилизованные люди)))))))) respect
I would be very greatfull if you respect the English language forum and post your commnets in English. If it is not acceptable, you can try to dissiminate your brilliant ideas through Russian Language forums. For the time being Russian is not the official language of EU, as I guess.
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Russia not agressor - 08-20-2008
Do you know what the дезинформация means????
Обьясни мне пожалуйста, О ВЕЛИКИЙ ШЕВЕЛИТЕЛЬ МОЗГАМИ, почему например в Грузии после начала военных действий закрыли доступ к сайтам .ru???www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dxh8QdBEmXZk%26feature%3Drelated
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DrwMWiHNoAT4%26feature%3Drelated">http://www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Drw ... %3Drelated</a><!-- m -->
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Eka - 08-20-2008
Russia not agressor Wrote:Do you know what the дезинформация means????Who tells you this ?
Обьясни мне пожалуйста, О ВЕЛИКИЙ ШЕВЕЛИТЕЛЬ МОЗГАМИ, почему например в Грузии после начала военных действий закрыли доступ к сайтам .ru???www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dxh8QdBEmXZk%26feature%3Drelated
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DrwMWiHNoAT4%26feature%3Drelated">http://www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Drw ... %3Drelated</a><!-- m -->
We have access ro russian weg (ru) but it is limited. You know way ? Your hackers are trying 2 times to cyber-attack our web. So thats way it is limited. We have access to your channels as well. So we can watch brilliant ideas which are verbalized by your prezidents and another officials. We have even acces to channels you have no access, for egzample -RTVI.
Kto tebia tak obmanivaet Pavlik ti moi marozov? Tvoi malchik- spalchiki?da ne ver ti im!! Isportiat!!!
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Eka - 08-20-2008
Tatiana_Kirovsk Wrote:I just recently have found blog <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.antiwar.com">http://www.antiwar.com</a><!-- m -->Tanechka - proverb to you:
Would you please to read and watch it!
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/08/14/american-girl-interviewed-on-fox-news-we-were-running-from-georgian-troops-thank-you-to-russian-troops/">http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2008/08/14/ ... an-troops/</a><!-- m -->
------------------------------------------------------------
Some comments from there:
"Comment by Joe
2008-08-14 23:27:13
Goodness, truth from Fox News! I was not sure who was the original aggressor until I heard that -good job!. I suspect Russia has been ratcheting up tensions for quite some time and all they needed was an excuse for a pre-planned military operation. However, this young girl makes a very compelling witness implicating Georgian Government in mass murder their own citizens - committing war crimes of which there is no excuse and erases any good will or moral authority they gain by helping us in Iraq. Smells like another shameful, incompetent job by Condi Rice formulating a policy of arming and encouraging these morons.
Reply to this comment
Comment by Rah
2008-08-15 00:08:46
Comment by Ali
2008-08-15 05:54:31
To top of the lies she has told and crimes she has committed against humanity in her roles in the Bush administration, Condoleezza Rice fails with a bang, and with characteristic criminality, at her supposed specialty: Sovietology. She has declared that she is going back to "Academic Life" after the Bush presidency. Is it that the American Academia has become the last refuge of the scoundrel?
Reply to this comment
Comment by Ali
2008-08-15 05:54:31"
-----------------------------------------------
It's not me (naive Tatiana). It's jast ordinary US men!!!!
You are welcome!
Go ahead, pro-Saakasvili people! All together now…
"Keep your mouth closed...better for you and for the rest..
You have no right speeking about anything.(by IamGEORGIA on 16 Aug 2008, 20:48
), I would reccomend you to rely on Mr. Lukashenko and Hesbola.(by Frederic on Today, 09:11 ) , that was an interview of a little girl that said she didn't see or hear any bombarding,……….People in US don't even watch it! It's a mascaraed, a moppets Show. (by Lor on Yesterday, 15:47) and so on.
-----------------------------------------------
Indeed, very laughable!!!! (Oops,too late by now.... )
POsle boia kulakami ne mashut!
Be quit and ask your govermant, if it will listen to you not to isolate Russia from Europe.
I can tell you such scered things about your brave soldgers that your hear will move on your head.and you know that there are asking money from weomen not rape them? World sees it, so you can of course not shut up ( its free world) but you are ashamed everywere. Maybe some radicals in world will assisst you, but think a little bit: during all your history everyone was mistaken with you and Russia is always right? Only few people support you abroad. So you can carefuly collect evidances of "brave Russia" against Georgia and represent them here. We are not doing it world media is doing it better.
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Russia not agressor - 08-20-2008
Да, iformation war это жесть... Нам друг друга все равно не переспорить, тем более меня отсюда уже выгоняют))) Никакого уважени.я.. Sorry, если что не так. Good luck all!
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Zarja87 - 08-20-2008
Теперь все встало на свои места: войну начала грузия с подачи Америкосов... Зачем спросите Вы... "США и Польша подписали соглашение о размещении американской ПРО"... Вот и все! Нужен был прецедент... И у них это получилось... Я вот одно не понимаю: Ведь эти ПРО теперь контролируют всю Европу... Зачем им разрешили это?!? Вндь не глупые же люди там сидят... ((( Я разочарован...
И все равно никто и никгда не сможет меня убедить в том, что Россия - агрессор!!!
Я горд за свою страну, что она стоит на своем, и не лижет *опу Америке...
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Eka - 08-20-2008
Zarja87 Wrote:Теперь все встало на свои места: войну начала грузия с подачи Америкосов... Зачем спросите Вы... "США и Польша подписали соглашение о размещении американской ПРО"... Вот и все! Нужен был прецедент... И у них это получилось... Я вот одно не понимаю: Ведь эти ПРО теперь контролируют всю Европу... Зачем им разрешили это?!? Вндь не глупые же люди там сидят... ((( Я разочарован...
И все равно никто и никгда не сможет меня убедить в том, что Россия - агрессор!!!
Я горд за свою страну, что она стоит на своем, и не лижет *опу Америке...
Blajenni veruiuchie, bog v pomoshch, Russia!
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - natka - 08-20-2008
Of course, the fault is all russian. for almost 2 decades russsian militiray has not had the possibility to be deployed outside their country. Now they are occuping sovereign independent state and will go further if not stopped in time.
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Tatiana_Kirovsk - 08-20-2008
Dear patriot Eka!
Russia have enough evidances, for example German' rifle
I do hope you apprehend (It seems very unlikely)
I don't want to waste my time in here, i have my job to do (not with home PC, at my kitchen). I really hate the wars, but sorry.....
Do you now ...
1) War begun, hell unchained.
2) Do as you would be done by.
Just fancy - I don't like fishy games, honestly!
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Eka - 08-20-2008
Tatiana_Kirovsk Wrote:Dear patriot Eka!DEAR tATIANA!
Russia have enough evidances, for example German' rifle
I do hope you apprehend (It seems very unlikely)
I don't want to waste my time in here, i have my job to do (not with home PC, at my kitchen). I really hate the wars, but sorry.....
Do you now ...
1) War begun, hell unchained.
2) Do as you would be done by.
Just fancy - I don't like fishy games, honestly!
UNFORTUNATLY YOU ARE NOT AS PATRIOT AS i AM.
kITCHEN AND COMPUTER ITS SOMETHING VERY NEW FOR ME.
i AM WORKING HARD AND WITH MANY OTHERS IN MY COUNTRY WATCHING CAREFULLY NFOR EVENTS IN WORLD. dONT BE CINIC. iT MEANS YOU LOST IN THIS WAR MORE THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE AT THIS MOMENT.
i AM GLAD THAT NOT ALL RUSSIAN CITIZENS ARE AS BLIND AS YOU ARE.
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Tatiana_Kirovsk - 08-20-2008
Dear oatriot Eka!
(Sorry, but by patriot i mean FANATIC )
I'm just plain Russian citizen, and I DO love my country!
Am I blind? Take a look for yorself!
And so on, and so on........
Don't you remember this post?
"by Lenus on 18 Aug 2008, 13:54
If you want to preach, get your facts straight first."
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - leoneo - 08-20-2008
Who was the first?
I will try to present the preface.
Russia threatens all Caucasus already 200 years. Bye the way Georgia has mach longer history than Russia. Georgia was occupied and annexed by Russian troops in 1801 please mention they come as allies to support Georgia against Iran and Turkey (they had different names that time).
Then after collapse of the Russian empire in 1917 Georgia declared independence that last 4 years. Soviet Russia invaded Georgia using the same method as today - support Ossetians. The Osetians were much less that time about couple of thousands.
USSR collapsed, Georgia is independent again in 1991. Immediately Osetians and Abkhaz declared, that they need to rejoin mother Russia- please note no independence. Only some period after it was modified and adjusted to proper marketing.
300,000 refugees from Abkhazia all Georgians, total population of Abkhazia was about 450,000 only 80,000 native Abkhaz among them. Guess who was fighting against Georgians?
At the same time Ossetia - problem the same thing but less bloody.
What kind of country could accept two wars at the same time?
Who was the first?
Georgia last couple of years presented steady grows of economy, wealth, happiness and peace.
Russia started pressing - trade embargo came first. Georgians were caught in Russia and sent to Georgia by cargo planes. Russia introduced Visa regime with Georgia none of CIS countries were in the list.
Population of Georgia currently is about 4, 5 million including all ethnical minorities. Georgian army has 30,000 troops.
Population of Russia is 142,008,838 million. Russian army has more than 1 million personnel on active duty.
Who was the first?
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Eka - 08-20-2008
Tatiana_Kirovsk Wrote:Dear oatriot Eka!TAnia,Tania, dont be so nervous. I understand you very well. Facts are here on this forum in huge amount. Web sites especially. Fact are in media and you in your kirovsk ( as I suppose) can watch them and analize.
(Sorry, but by patriot i mean FANATIC )
I'm just plain Russian citizen, and I DO love my country!
Am I blind? Take a look for yorself!
And so on, and so on........
Don't you remember this post?
"by Lenus on 18 Aug 2008, 13:54
If you want to preach, get your facts straight first."
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Patriot=Fanatic? first time I here such thing. If you are not so involved in your job, and have time to spent with computer can you explain to houskeaper
from Tbilisi ( who is prepearing food and posting as well) what you meen under this definition? But I am sure that you will dont do it! You know way? You understand very well that huge mashine is working against you and your soviet propaganda and only thing you can, its be cinic. Wait a little bit, as we are waiting and you can see the results soon. By .. ( moloko ubejalo nado prismpotret )
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Frederic - 08-20-2008
Tatiana_Kirovsk Wrote:Dear oatriot Eka!Dear Tatiana,
(Sorry, but by patriot i mean FANATIC )
I'm just plain Russian citizen, and I DO love my country!
Am I blind? Take a look for yorself!
And so on, and so on........
Don't you remember this post?
"by Lenus on 18 Aug 2008, 13:54
If you want to preach, get your facts straight first."
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
If I am not mistaken, you were too busy at work to get into disscussions with some patriots ,sitting in the kitchen? Plain russian citizen! Loving your country doesn`t mean being deaf and blind and justifing its any actions. Personal insulting is not the best way to wash off the blood from your government. So calm down and try to analyze the situation in more unbiased manner. As regards kitchen, I don`t know were you are sitting right now, but I am sure not in a capital, which was under the threat of russian bombardments just a couple of days ago (Mr. Kouchner(foreign minister of France) has confirmed on his press conference that this was the plan of russian military, which has been avoided only by EU activities. Sorry for being so emotianal, but I doubt you have any moral right to make any statements on patriotism just now. Be more open to the world, try to get more information and you will see that the world is not so hostile as russians imagIne. Prominent diplomat, Kenan, used to write once that Russia is a country which can have only enemies or vassals on its border. Unfortunatelly it turned out to be true.
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - euamerican - 08-20-2008
The war in South Ossetia was started by Georgia - and only Georgia is to blame.
Even Human Rights Watch has now stated this, along with independent observers that are not connectted to American media and government.
Human Rights Watch - Q & A: Violence in South Ossetia http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/08/08/georgi19577.htm
Guest Post by DIMITRI SIMES: What Exactly Did Saakashvili Think Would Happen? http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2008/08/guest_post_by_d_1/
Patrick J. Buchanan - Blowback From Bear-Baiting -http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28053
The Telegraph - Georgia: Mikheil Saakashvili, the man who lost it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2547517/Georgia-Mikheil-Saakashvili-the-man-who-lost-it-all.html
Those of you that voted and believe that Russia started this conflict are wrong - plan and simply wrong! :lol:
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - M.Helen - 08-20-2008
thank you for posting these links. At least I can see a Western source of information criticizing Georgia.
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - leoneo - 08-20-2008
Does it matter who shot first?
Do you believe that Georgians did not know that Russia would interfere and repay severely? You should understand that from the beginning (1991) it was not about ethnicity at all!
Russia wants to reintegrate USSR. Please look at Russian actions around the world.
euamerican Wrote:The war in South Ossetia was started by Georgia - and only Georgia is to blame.
Even Human Rights Watch has now stated this, along with independent observers that are not connectted to American media and government.
Human Rights Watch - Q & A: Violence in South Ossetia http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/08/08/georgi19577.htm
Guest Post by DIMITRI SIMES: What Exactly Did Saakashvili Think Would Happen? http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2008/08/guest_post_by_d_1/
Patrick J. Buchanan - Blowback From Bear-Baiting -http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28053
The Telegraph - Georgia: Mikheil Saakashvili, the man who lost it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2547517/Georgia-Mikheil-Saakashvili-the-man-who-lost-it-all.html
Those of you that voted and believe that Russia started this conflict are wrong - plan and simply wrong! :lol:
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - goga - 08-20-2008
these so called peace keepers already showed themselves how good war makers are they
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - takotako - 08-20-2008
Truly, peacekeepers of the country which finances sessecionist regimes and permanently imposes threat to georgian civilian population can not be called peace keeper. They failed to fulfil their mandate and did it deliberately.
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Lenus - 08-20-2008
Tatiana_Kirovsk Wrote:Dear oatriot Eka!
(Sorry, but by patriot i mean FANATIC )
I'm just plain Russian citizen, and I DO love my country!
Am I blind? Take a look for yorself!
And so on, and so on........
Don't you remember this post?
"by Lenus on 18 Aug 2008, 13:54
If you want to preach, get your facts straight first."
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Excuse me, but what was wrong with my post there?
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Lenus - 08-20-2008
M.Helen Wrote:thank you for posting these links. At least I can see a Western source of information criticizing Georgia.
Dear helen,
you should not jump to conclusions so fast.
Can't you notice, the post author offerred us a conclusion first, links next.
I ve only read tVe first link, I can assure, there will be no cocnlusion like GEORGIANS AND ONLY GEORGIANS ARE TO BE BLAMED coming from any of these.
how do I know? years of experience combatting Russian desinformators on web
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - Lenus - 08-20-2008
Quote:Georgia 27 38%
Russia 43 61%
I don't know 0 No votes
Still, its always and still Russia
Re: Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia? - M.Helen - 08-20-2008
Watch a Russian lawyer protesting against Saakashvili:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://life.ru/video/5240">http://life.ru/video/5240</a><!-- m -->