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+--- Thread: Should the Ukraine join NATO? (/thread-216.html)
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Karl.in.eu - 08-29-2008
why was S.Osettia's independence recognized by Russia, if this region belongs to somebody...
It is not independent in the end.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - SiD - 08-29-2008
Karl.in.eu Wrote:why was S.Osettia's independence recognized by Russia, if this region belongs to somebody...
It is not independent in the end.
Bah... Was it recognized by Georgia?
Now it is independent, for Russia. Georgia is telling that these territories are georgian. And they are recognized as part of georgia by every country untill they recognize them as independent.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - M.Helen - 08-31-2008
what does this recognition of Russia mean in practical manner? Would there be a kind of special regimes for South Ossetians within the relations with Russia?
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - SiD - 08-31-2008
M.Helen Wrote:what does this recognition of Russia mean in practical manner? Would there be a kind of special regimes for South Ossetians within the relations with Russia?You can imagine. Independent country is independent country. If they are recognized by Russia they can for example join her (if they want and Russia accepts) or have mutual defense treaty with Russia. That can garantee thier survival.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - EU1 - 08-31-2008
Hakan G Wrote:SiD Wrote:Hakan G Wrote:So you're now saying he killed Georgian people as well. Please make it your mind and make a clear statement once and for all.S Osetai WAS part of georgia so it means that Saakashvili ordered to attack his own people, i think this is logickal.
Could you please make up your mind once again?
You said that Russia got in Ossetia because it was defending its citizens, now you're saying Ossetia somehow belongs to Georgia and is in fact its territory.. This is getting hilarious.
Imagine, US citizens live, say, in a region of Ukraine (or any another country) which wants to be independent, ukranian army goes to that region and begins to kill US citizens. The question - what will be with Ukraine after these actions? Such country would never exsist. So Saakashvili is a lucky guy.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Hakan G - 08-31-2008
SiD Wrote:M.Helen Wrote:what does this recognition of Russia mean in practical manner? Would there be a kind of special regimes for South Ossetians within the relations with Russia?You can imagine. Independent country is independent country. If they are recognized by Russia they can for example join her (if they want and Russia accepts) or have mutual defense treaty with Russia.
Now that is what I call Independency, to accept to be swallowed by another country .. :haha :haha :haha
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - SiD - 08-31-2008
It were only examples. And i doubt that they would be swallowed by anyone anytime soon.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Benn - 08-31-2008
they certainly won't. Actually Ossetians claimed they want to be neither with Russia nor with Georgia. So, it seems they only need independence, nothing else.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - SiD - 08-31-2008
Benn Wrote:they certainly won't. Actually Ossetians claimed they want to be neither with Russia nor with Georgia. So, it seems they only need independence, nothing else.How about peace? I think they need it too.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Benn - 08-31-2008
that even shouldn't be mentioned, because it's normal they want it. I hope they'll get it and the entire international community will understand their will.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Giovane - 08-31-2008
Let's imagine that Ukraine has joined to Nato/
Do you know ukrain island that calling Crim...
On this island can hypothetical calim 2 forces: Russia (it's so very unreal), and Crim's tartars (it's very realistic and they already started such movement). And if Tartars will start conflict (it's licke a chechens war) do you ready to solve such problem (I mean NATO)????
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Benn - 08-31-2008
I wouldn't prefer any wars to take place in that region. It had enough from Georgia. Ukraine's NATO joining will grow from a small conflict to a world-wide one.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - IamGEORGIA - 08-31-2008
Giovane Wrote:Let's imagine that Ukraine has joined to Nato/
Do you know ukrain island that calling Crim...
On this island can hypothetical calim 2 forces: Russia (it's so very unreal), and Crim's tartars (it's very realistic and they already started such movement). And if Tartars will start conflict (it's licke a chechens war) do you ready to solve such problem (I mean NATO)????
wow..
The next plan?
Next plan of inasion another souveregn country?
It is their own teritory, thay can do what think is right..it is not YOUR and MY business..
They will decide what to do with Crim...
Youd better think about Ingushetia,and i will think about Ossetia...better for us..
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Giovane - 08-31-2008
Maybe can you tell me why this forum/theme for???? But don't worry I tell you, that this theme for discussing.
And If you had brains you would understand that I don't speak about Russia or Russian influence. I've just sad about real problem (Crim's tartat). If you don't know, this tartars are ukrain citizens...
Moreover, I tell you, that last 17 years (since they could hark back to Crim) they began to grip lands...
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - SiD - 08-31-2008
Everybody seems to forget that this desigion is mutual. Ukrain should be willing to join, NATO should be ready to accept. And both of them must think twice, ewen more times becouse situation in Ukrain is not without problems. Problems that cant be ignored by anyone.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Newrussian town - 09-17-2008
USA wants Georgia and Ukrain in NATO, and their vice-president candidate from republicans SP ready in this case to war with RF. I am very glad that we have such contries like France and Germany which understand that war with Russia it isn't a Command and Conquer Red Alert 2 but end for the entire planet. It's seems like Americans lost their last mind. One US trooper said to correspondent-" Do you know that we are under fire here, I mean it is not like the computer game..." It was surprise for him :haha for sure.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - gomboreli - 09-17-2008
Mrs Palin has announced that if these two countries join NATO and get attacked by Russia, the NATO will protect them militarily. Read Article 5 of the alliance's charter about the collective defence and you won't find it surprising
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Newrussian town - 09-17-2008
So let's die together my American fellows. Mrs Palin just know nothing about Russian millitary answer. we have 1400 nuckes it is enought to destroyed entire Earth twice even if we blowed them on our terretory, USA can destroyed Earth 4 times. I think if you will at war with us , the game will be over for 3 minutes. I don't think that NATO will make up one's mind to do this. So very stupid rethoric.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - SiD - 09-18-2008
gomboreli Wrote:Mrs Palin has announced that if these two countries join NATO and get attacked by Russia, the NATO will protect them militarily. Read Article 5 of the alliance's charter about the collective defence and you won't find it surprising
That is most interesting dont you think? Would they protect if it would be needed?
They dont exept countries with territoryal problems becouse of this.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - gomboreli - 09-18-2008
The application has been submitted. It's up to them to determine now whether these two counties deserve a membership or not. If NATO decides positively, it will protect them regardless of what amount of nukes Pakistan or Russia have. Blackmailing by nuclear bombs is equally disgraceful and reckless
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - Newrussian town - 09-18-2008
It will not safe them from nothing ( NATO I mean). If Russia wants this territories she would take them. In Russian's regions NATO is rubbish. And if USA will attack Cuba or Venesuela, the russian troops will be useless. NOBODY will start the nucklear war becouse of such small change cions like Georgia or Cuba.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - M.Helen - 09-18-2008
The last meeting between Yushenko and Sarkozy proved that NATO is not too ready to open the doors for the Ukraine. A lot of promises, but no actions - this is what all news sources stated.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - SiD - 09-18-2008
gomboreli Wrote:The application has been submitted. It's up to them to determine now whether these two counties deserve a membership or not. If NATO decides positively, it will protect them regardless of what amount of nukes Pakistan or Russia have. Blackmailing by nuclear bombs is equally disgraceful and reckless
It is you think so. They have hundreds of millions to defend, parhaps you think they are willing to sacrifice thier own people to defend Georgia or Ukraine? Not to mantion that it is redicoulus that we would attack Ukraine. Something REALY GREAVE must happen for that, parhaps you know any reason?
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - SiD - 09-18-2008
By the way we cant speak about defense even, i cant imagine anyone defended after war of nuclear giants.
Re: Should the Ukraine join NATO? - gomboreli - 09-19-2008
The title of this topic is 'Should the Ukraine join NATO?' My answer is yes if these two sides want so. Except for these parties it's not anyone's business at all. And if the alliance refuses, it won't be the end of the world either.
Your recent history is full with all-out aggressions from Finland all the way to Eastern European countries, Afghanistan and now Georgia, and as far as I'm aware the Kremlin has never lacked excuses. You rather ponder WHY your fellow Slavs in Ukraine being historically and culturally much closer with Russians than with all NATO member nations combined are so keen to join NATO.
The same way it concerns Georgia.