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Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Hakan G - 08-26-2008
lashachochua Wrote:independent Wrote:lashachochua Wrote:The great troublemaker is Russia in the region........G7 will soon make you think that you are not capable even solving your own problems....Just wait a bit....Very soon you will need bone from G7 table......This time will come very soon... If you think that with your oil you can do what you like to do....This will not work....At least, in 50 years there will not be an oil at all, what will you do than....Effect global politics with VODKA, by the way this is the only way.... :haha
Ok, I try not to taunt You more, but rather understand that You are just upset and don't master Your
comments so well. :?
Are you SiD, or SiD and independent are the same persons......Looks interesting :haha I thought I was beating two russians, appeared only one........ :haha
I'll try to ask the Admin to provide me with the Ip's, it'll be fun! :haha :haha :haha
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-26-2008
Eka Wrote:Independant is member of Finland communist party and Sid is member of Russian komunist party. Onlt this link is conecting them.But what a great link...
Dear Eka,
I prefer if people try to keep arguing in sophisticated level. What You or lashachochua think about me
is out of topic. I have not insulted neither You or lashachochua so I approxiate if You do the same for
me. I'm wiling to discuss only as long as it is done in a civilized way.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Nicholas - 08-26-2008
independent Wrote:Eka Wrote:Independant is member of Finland communist party and Sid is member of Russian komunist party. Onlt this link is conecting them.But what a great link...
Dear Eka,
I prefer if people try to keep arguing in sophisticated level. What You or lashachochua think about me
is out of topic. I have not insulted neither You or lashachochua so I approxiate if You do the same for
me. I'm wiling to discuss only as long as it is done in a civilized way.
Wow, I didn't know there is a communist party in Finland. It looks a very European country to me. How is that they hadn't this party banned after the fall of the USSR ?!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-26-2008
Nicholas Wrote:Wow, I didn't know there is a communist party in Finland. It looks a very European country to me. How is that they hadn't this party banned after the fall of the USSR ?!
Indeed we don't have a communist party
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-26-2008
independent Wrote:Eka Wrote:Independant is member of Finland communist party and Sid is member of Russian komunist party. Onlt this link is conecting them.But what a great link...
Dear Eka,
I prefer if people try to keep arguing in sophisticated level. What You or lashachochua think about me
is out of topic. I have not insulted neither You or lashachochua so I approxiate if You do the same for
me. I'm wiling to discuss only as long as it is done in a civilized way.
I do not think that I did anything uncivilized... Just I asked a question, may be in Russia asking question is considered uncivilized...People thinking that they can argue on sophisticated level are pretending to be clever, but actually you do not understand that the whole philosophy and truth are in a simple logic...By the way I would really like to see your sophisticated arguments, where they are?...By the way, about civilized manner of argueing see the comments of SiD about my level..........Than you will geuss at least who is who?...
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-26-2008
lashachochua Wrote:independent Wrote:Eka Wrote:Independant is member of Finland communist party and Sid is member of Russian komunist party. Onlt this link is conecting them.But what a great link...
Dear Eka,
I prefer if people try to keep arguing in sophisticated level. What You or lashachochua think about me
is out of topic. I have not insulted neither You or lashachochua so I approxiate if You do the same for
me. I'm wiling to discuss only as long as it is done in a civilized way.
I do not think that I did anything uncivilized... Just I asked a question, may be in Russia asking question is considered uncivilized...People thinking that they can argue on sophisticated level are pretending to be clever, but actually you do not understand that the whole philosophy and truth are in a simple logic...By the way I would really like to see your sophisticated arguments, where they are?...By the way, about civilized manner of argueing see the comments of SiD about my level..........Than you will geuss at least who is who?...
If You read the name of this topic - is there something about who I am, or who SiD is ?
Something about political views ?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-26-2008
lashachochua Wrote:I do not think that I did anything uncivilized... Just I asked a question, may be in Russia asking question is considered uncivilized...People thinking that they can argue on sophisticated level are pretending to be clever, but actually you do not understand that the whole philosophy and truth are in a simple logic...By the way I would really like to see your sophisticated arguments, where they are?...By the way, about civilized manner of argueing see the comments of SiD about my level..........Than you will geuss at least who is who?...
First of all you forget your comments about our people using elected words of some of our classics so dont pretend to be victim.
If you want simple logick that it is, you sold yourselves to US, provoked Russia paid the price. Simple.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-26-2008
SiD Wrote:lashachochua Wrote:I do not think that I did anything uncivilized... Just I asked a question, may be in Russia asking question is considered uncivilized...People thinking that they can argue on sophisticated level are pretending to be clever, but actually you do not understand that the whole philosophy and truth are in a simple logic...By the way I would really like to see your sophisticated arguments, where they are?...By the way, about civilized manner of argueing see the comments of SiD about my level..........Than you will geuss at least who is who?...
First of all you forget your comments about our people using elected words of some of our classics so dont pretend to be victim. If you want simple logick that it is, you sold yourselves to US, provoked Russia paid the price. Simple.
elected words, what does it means, there are no just words, they are copleted sentences where you can understand what authors wanted to say. Is it my fault that they said such things.....OOO NOOOOOO....Yes I know it is difficult to look the truth in eyes......I do understand you......And I am sorry for you......But I prefer to listen Russian xlassics than modern followers of Putinizm........I do not pretend to be a victim...You are right we paid our price, but now it is getting time when you have to pay your price....
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-26-2008
lashachochua Wrote:elected words, what does it means, there are no just words, they are copleted sentences where you can understand what authors wanted to say. Is it my fault that they said such things.....OOO NOOOOOO....Yes I know it is difficult to look the truth in eyes......I do understand you......And I am sorry for you......But I prefer to listen Russian xlassics than modern followers of Putinizm........I do not pretend to be a victim...You are right we paid our price, but now it is getting time when you have to pay your price....
You extreamly sellective in classics. Parhaps you cant find some of thier patriotic writings? I wont bother becouse your attempts to insult russians trough classics are pathetik. You turn to literature and past becouse your country is nothing in present, cant even keep itself in one pice or sellect decent government. What it says about georgians? nothing good. you try to solve your problems at someone others expanse becouse you cant solve them yourself.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-26-2008
SiD Wrote:lashachochua Wrote:elected words, what does it means, there are no just words, they are copleted sentences where you can understand what authors wanted to say. Is it my fault that they said such things.....OOO NOOOOOO....Yes I know it is difficult to look the truth in eyes......I do understand you......And I am sorry for you......But I prefer to listen Russian xlassics than modern followers of Putinizm........I do not pretend to be a victim...You are right we paid our price, but now it is getting time when you have to pay your price....
You extreamly sellective in classics. Parhaps you cant find some of thier patriotic writings? I wont bother becouse your attempts to insult russians trough classics are pathetik. You turn to literature and past becouse your country is nothing in present, cant even keep itself in one pice or sellect decent government. What it says about georgians? nothing good. you try to solve your problems at someone others expanse becouse you cant solve them yourself.
yes, it is pitty that we can not solve this problem, but it is logical, do you not think so.....you are 250 million we are 4.5 million, you have somewhere 7000-8000 tanks and we have only 100....Russian problem should be solved by the whole world....And it will be solved...........
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-26-2008
lashachochua Wrote:yes, it is pitty that we can not solve this problem, but it is logical, do you not think so.....you are 250 million we are 4.5 million, you have somewhere 7000-8000 tanks and we have only 100....Russian problem should be solved by the whole world....And it will be solved...........
Problems can be solved without use of military force but it seems you do not need other solutions.
Russia is on the world map in one way or another not the first century. So do not wory about us.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-26-2008
lashachochua Wrote:yes, it is pitty that we can not solve this problem, but it is logical, do you not think so.....you are 250 million we are 4.5 million, you have somewhere 7000-8000 tanks and we have only 100....Russian problem should be solved by the whole world....And it will be solved...........
So to make it simply - why did You generate a problem You can't solve ?
You are not a member of EU neither NATO, Why You think we should be interested
to solve Your problems ? Your adventure has give us nothing but headache.
There is nothing we can acquire but a lot to lose - thanks to Your country.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-26-2008
independent Wrote:lashachochua Wrote:yes, it is pitty that we can not solve this problem, but it is logical, do you not think so.....you are 250 million we are 4.5 million, you have somewhere 7000-8000 tanks and we have only 100....Russian problem should be solved by the whole world....And it will be solved...........
So to make it simply - why did You generate a problem You can't solve ?
You are not a member of EU neither NATO, Why You think we should be interested
to solve Your problems ? Your adventure has give us nothing but headache.
There is nothing we can acquire but a lot to lose - thanks to Your country.
independent, Russia made up both problems in Abkhazia and S. Ossetia.....Please Do not blame Georgia when your unwise government is putting the whole fate of Russian People on scales...I am sure you really understand that the world is not designed for single country....Everyone needs to be involved in trade, in social global network, in cultural relations.....So be more wise and look in future, what will all this will give to Russia....
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-26-2008
SiD Wrote:lashachochua Wrote:yes, it is pitty that we can not solve this problem, but it is logical, do you not think so.....you are 250 million we are 4.5 million, you have somewhere 7000-8000 tanks and we have only 100....Russian problem should be solved by the whole world....And it will be solved...........
Problems can be solved without use of military force but it seems you do not need other solutions.
Russia is on the world map in one way or another not the first century. So do not wory about us.
SiD, have you ever heard the myth about Medea and Iazon.....If yes....than you should know, that when Georgia was on map, there was no Russia at all......So we have survived from many invadors, many of them does not exist at all now.....We will manage to survive from russia too....
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 08-26-2008
The Russian state is far from being consistent in its policy – those in the free world who used to be blind should now see it. But what has been done in Abkhazia and South Ossetia under Russian military presence during past years? The vast ethnic Georgian population has been driven out of these regions. It means ethnic cleansing. Russians passports have been massively offered to the rest. According to the figures given by some Russian officials, 70-80% of the population in South Ossetia became Russian citizens. Russia has supported illegal military gangs (call it milder if you wish) in South Ossetia and their officials took local power there. (What “independence” they are talking about?) People were periodically shot, and those living in Georgian villages felt helpless. It means Russian troops did not provide security to them. Finally, I see no reason why this should not altogether be considered as a long-term annexation plan. Belorussia’s dictator called Russia’s action “very accurate and nice”. Medvedev did not mind it. These are their standards. But those comparing the events to Kosovo should really study more. Russian authorities will continue to repeat its version of the past events at any cost, for their main aim is brainwashing of their own people. As for outsiders, Russians did not bother much about them (it’s another question why). However I’d like to know what they will do with the witnesses who dare to say the following: 1) since the very beginning of August, South Ossetian gangs were shooting at Georgian villages every night and the Russian Army seemed to be on their side; 2) when Georgian forces entered Tskhinvali, Russians started air strikes on the city, thus destroying it almost completely.
independent Wrote:So to make it simply - why did You generate a problem You can't solve ?
You are not a member of EU neither NATO, Why You think we should be interested
to solve Your problems ? Your adventure has give us nothing but headache.
There is nothing we can acquire but a lot to lose - thanks to Your country.
A lot depends on your understanding of the situation. I am a citizen of the EU and NATO country but I see it differently. By the way, can you keep your feelings, your sorry and your simpathy within NATO or EU borders?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-26-2008
Yalta1945 Wrote:The Russian state is far from being consistent in its policy – those in the free world who used to be blind should now see it. But what has been done in Abkhazia and South Ossetia under Russian military presence during past years? The vast ethnic Georgian population has been driven out of these regions. It means ethnic cleansing. Russians passports have been massively offered to the rest. According to the figures given by some Russian officials, 70-80% of the population in South Ossetia became Russian citizens. Russia has supported illegal military gangs (call it milder if you wish) in South Ossetia and their officials took local power there. (What “independence” they are talking about?) People were periodically shot, and those living in Georgian villages felt helpless. It means Russian troops did not provide security to them. Finally, I see no reason why this should not altogether be considered as a long-term annexation plan. Belorussia’s dictator called Russia’s action “very accurate and nice”. Medvedev did not mind it. These are their standards. But those comparing the events to Kosovo should really study more. Russian authorities will continue to repeat its version of the past events at any cost, for their main aim is brainwashing of their own people. As for outsiders, Russians did not bother much about them (it’s another question why). However I’d like to know what they will do with the witnesses who dare to say the following: 1) since the very beginning of August, South Ossetian gangs were shooting at Georgian villages every night and the Russian Army seemed to be on their side; 2) when Georgian forces entered Tskhinvali, Russians started air strikes on the city, thus destroying it almost completely.
independent Wrote:So to make it simply - why did You generate a problem You can't solve ?
You are not a member of EU neither NATO, Why You think we should be interested
to solve Your problems ? Your adventure has give us nothing but headache.
There is nothing we can acquire but a lot to lose - thanks to Your country.
A lot depends on your understanding of the situation. I am a citizen of the EU and NATO country but I see it differently. By the way, can you keep your feelings, your sorry and your simpathy within NATO or EU borders?
I am happy that I am not alone.........
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-26-2008
Yalta1945 Wrote:By the way, can you keep your feelings, your sorry and your simpathy within NATO or EU borders?
To be honest - no. Indeed I feel sorry for ordinary people as well in Georgia, S-Ossetia as Ahkbaasia.
This and all other remaining frozen conflicts should have been solved without violence. But my opinion
is that Georgia chose a shortcut - so I can't blame only russia of this conflict. They provoked and
over reacted - sure, but there still remains the "miscalculation" made by Saakashvili.
So it seems that in contrary to all warnings from US and EU he launched this disaster.
And I'm egoist enough to find it unfair to be drawn to an conflict prompted by an incompetent politic.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Elrat - 08-26-2008
Let us make a very brief sortie into the history of the conflict.
Throughout a brief history of Georgia as a sovereign state: from 1918-1921 and 1991-2008 and it has nine times attempted to exterminate the population of South Ossetia. First it was under the menshevist government of the Georgian Democratic Republic (5000 South Ossetians killed and over 13000 died afterwards as the result of epidemics and famine). In 1921 Joseph Djugashvili (Stalin) and Sergo Ordjenikidze divided Ossetia and included the South part in the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic.
As in 1989 Georgia used the right of self-determination it has some-what denied that to the South Ossetians and denounced the autonomy of the republic.
In the 1989 Zviyad Gamsahurdia came forth with a slogan “Georgia for Georgians” and tried to annex the territories to Georgia. The main personages of those events were Georgian mafia Godfathers Kitovani and Ioseliani whose goals were either to intimidate the population into entering Georgia or leaving it or just kill all of them.
With the help of Russia as intermediary the government of Shevornadze in 1991 signed ceasefire treaty first with South Ossetia, afterwards with Abhazia, the guarantors of the peace were peacekeepers made up of Russians, Georgians and South Ossetians (Abhazians). The treaty provided for demilitarized zone but the militarist and nazi government of Adolf Saakashvili contrived to secretly (for Ossetians and Abhazians but not for NATO) shift its regular army with heavy artillery into the zone on an aimed-fire distance to Tshinvali. On the 8th of August the Georgian heavy artillery systems “Grads” opened fire on sleeping city predominantly aiming at residential area (hospitals, shops etc.). The purpose of this operation was to take the population and the Russian peacekeepers by surprise and to either force the Ossetians out of republic or just exterminate. The beast hoped the Russian government would not dare to interfere and the world community would be to busy with the Olympic games and just with American help to cover up the crimes. There were a lot of atrocities worse than during the WWII.
Was there any other way to the save the people of Ossetia and Abhazia from GENOCIDE?
The answer is NO!!!! No one can challenge the fact.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-26-2008
Elrat Wrote:Let us make a very brief sortie into the history of the conflict.
Throughout a brief history of Georgia as a sovereign state: from 1918-1921 and 1991-2008 and it has nine times attempted to exterminate the population of South Ossetia. First it was under the menshevist government of the Georgian Democratic Republic (5000 South Ossetians killed and over 13000 died afterwards as the result of epidemics and famine). In 1921 Joseph Djugashvili (Stalin) and Sergo Ordjenikidze divided Ossetia and included the South part in the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic.
As in 1989 Georgia used the right of self-determination it has some-what denied that to the South Ossetians and denounced the autonomy of the republic.
In the 1989 Zviyad Gamsahurdia came forth with a slogan “Georgia for Georgians” and tried to annex the territories to Georgia. The main personages of those events were Georgian mafia Godfathers Kitovani and Ioseliani whose goals were either to intimidate the population into entering Georgia or leaving it or just kill all of them.
With the help of Russia as intermediary the government of Shevornadze in 1991 signed ceasefire treaty first with South Ossetia, afterwards with Abhazia, the guarantors of the peace were peacekeepers made up of Russians, Georgians and South Ossetians (Abhazians). The treaty provided for demilitarized zone but the militarist and nazi government of Adolf Saakashvili contrived to secretly (for Ossetians and Abhazians but not for NATO) shift its regular army with heavy artillery into the zone on an aimed-fire distance to Tshinvali. On the 8th of August the Georgian heavy artillery systems “Grads” opened fire on sleeping city predominantly aiming at residential area (hospitals, shops etc.). The purpose of this operation was to take the population and the Russian peacekeepers by surprise and to either force the Ossetians out of republic or just exterminate. The beast hoped the Russian government would not dare to interfere and the world community would be to busy with the Olympic games and just with American help to cover up the crimes. There were a lot of atrocities worse than during the WWII.
Was there any other way to the save the people of Ossetia and Abhazia from GENOCIDE?
The answer is NO!!!! No one can challenge the fact.
One remark, there was no South Ossetia back in 1918-1921, the region for centures was called Samachablo (land of Machabeli- georgian nobel family). South Osseetia is an artificial creature of Sergo Orjonikidze and Stalin - there is one Ossetia - which is called now North Ossetia. Name - South Ossetia is the same kind of problem as with Macedonia...in Greece and Macedonia country. So, no wonder Greeks do not like that
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-26-2008
Касьянов: Признание сепаратистских республик - шаг к изоляции Признание независимости Абхазии и Южной Осетии является ошибочным решением. Это еще один шаг в сторону изоляции России международным сообществом. Как передает корреспондент Граней.Ру, об этом на брифинге в Москве заявил лидер Российского народно-демократического союза Михаил Касьянов.
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По его словам, решение президента Медведева является неисполнением уже второго пункта плана Саркози. Ранее Россия нарушила обязательство о выводе войск с территории Грузии. "Фактически Россия противопоставляет себя всему миру. В ближайшее время следует ожидать охлаждения отношений", - заявил Касьянов.
Во вторник президент Дмитрий Медведев подписал указы о признании независимости Абхазии и Южной Осетии. "Учитывая свободное волеизъявление осетинского и абхазского народов, руководствуясь положениями Устава ООН, декларацией 1970 года о принципах международного права, касающихся дружественных отношений между государствами, Хельсинкским заключительным актом ОБСЕ 1975 года, другими основополагающими международными документами, я подписал указы о признании Российской Федерацией независимости Южной Осетии и независимости Абхазии", - сказал Медведев в специальном телеобращении.
По его словам, Россия призывает другие государства последовать ее примеру. "Это нелегкий выбор, но это единственная возможность сохранить жизни людей", - сказал президент.
Ранее представитель Белого дома заявил, что решение российского парламента о необходимости признания независимости самопровозглашенных республик Абхазии и Южной Осетии неприемлемо. Кроме того, в Белом доме сообщили, что вице-президент США Дик Чейни в начале сентября посетит Грузию, где встретится с президентом страны Михаилом Саакашвили. Чейни также планирует посетить Украину и Азербайджан.
В свою очередь, в Министерстве иностранных дел Великобритании выразили уверенность в том, что обращение российского парламента приведет к большей напряженности как в зоне конфликта, так и в отношениях России и Запада. "Это создаст большую напряженность в регионе, и мы призываем российское правительство выполнять свои обязательства и воздерживаться от действий, которые могут усилить и так высокий уровень беспокойства", - заявила сотрудница британского МИДа в интервью РИА "Новости".
По ее словам, "обращение Госдумы может увеличить подозрения - и наши, и общие - относительно действий и мотивов России, особенно в ситуации, когда мы знаем, что российские войска продолжают действовать в Сенаки и Поти".
В понедельник Госдума поддержала обращение к президенту России с просьбой признать независимость Южной Осетии и Абхазии. В поддержку этого обращения выступили все фракции нижней палаты. Ранее Совет Федерации также единогласно проголосовал за обращение к президенту России Дмитрию Медведеву с предложением признать независимость Абхазии и Южной Осетии. Принять это обращение сенаторов призвал спикер палаты Сергей Миронов.
В качестве правового основания признания независимости этих республик Миронов назвал право народов на самоопределение.
Лидеры стран "большой восьмерки", в числе которых президент США Джордж Буш, канцлер ФРГ Ангела Меркель и президент Франции Николя Саркози, неоднократно высказывались за сохранение территориальной целостности Грузии и решение спорных вопросов грузино-осетинских и грузино-абхазских отношений за столом переговоров. Госсекретарь США Кондолиза Райс заявляла, что "Россия ведет исключительно опасную игру". "Нам придется воспрепятствовать российским стратегическим амбициям, которые явно направлены на подрыв грузинской демократии, которые используют свою военный потенциал для нанесения вреда и в некоторых случаях для разрушения инфраструктуры Грузии и для попыток ослабить грузинское государство", - заявила Райс.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-26-2008
Sorry for Russian, but it makes me believe that common sense is still aliv in Russia
Народ для разврата собрался Массовое политическое сознание русских, сербов, грузин в отношении своих "сепаратистов" находится примерно на одинаковом пещерном уровне - силой заставить "их" принять "нашу" территориальную целостность. Поэтому "мы" скорее всего безвозвратно потеряли соответственно Чечню, Косово, Абхазию, Южную Осетию. Жертвой этой политики стали сами "коренные", по излюбленному выражению российского премьер-министра, народы - русские, сербы, грузины, - изгнанные с де-факто или де-юре отделившихся территорий.
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Статья :
Слава России
Патриот военизированной керосинной лавки, каковой он с гордостью представляет собственную страну, очень любит поглумиться над убожеством соседей, вынужденных при отсутствии горючего довольствоваться такими ничтожными символами национальной идентичности, как лобио, кильки или сало.
Лев Рубинштейн
15.08.2008
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В годы чеченских войн я в меру своих слабых сил пытался объяснять читателям очевидную порочность и абсурдность традиционной политики "восстановления территориальной целостности".
"Мы за что воюем в Чечне? За территориальную целостность России. Но территориальная целостность - это не выжженная земля без людей. Мы воюем, чтобы доказать чеченцам, что они являются гражданами России. Но при этом мы уничтожаем их города и села, похищаем мирных жителей, трупы которых потом находят со следами пыток".
Нам не дано предугадать, как наше слово отзовется. И вот через много лет обрел я наконец собрата по разуму в высших эшелонах власти:
"Это находится за рамками человеческого понимания, когда цивилизованное государство применяет военную машину против мирных граждан, в том числе и тех, которых оно считает своими... Это нельзя объяснить и нельзя было оставлять безнаказанным... Никто же не думал, что Грузия будет стрелять по мирному населению и своим гражданам. Интересный способ объединения страны".
Мы эхо, мы эхо, Дмитрий Анатольевич, мы долгое эхо друг друга. Где же Вы были, интеллигентнейший Вы наш, все эти годы? Какие государственные посты занимали? Почему не поднялись во весь рост на торжественном концерте в Кремле и не оборвали постыдных паяцев, исполнявших немыслимое или, как Вы справедливо подметили, находящееся за рамками человеческого понимания:
"А в чистом поле система "Град",
За нами Путин и Сталинград".
Тщательно готовившаяся показательная экзекуция Грузии в любом случае была назначена на август. Необъяснимый шаг Михаила Саакашвили, который позволил заманить себя в цхинвальский капкан, подарил Москве невероятный пропагандистский успех - карательная акция принуждения к покорности превратилась в благородную миссию по принуждению к миру и защите новоиспеченных собственных граждан.
Во всяком случае, обмануть самих себя и привести общество в состояние патриотической эйфории удалось нашим властям на славу.
"Впервые за годы не стыдно за Россию. Впервые за годы не стыдно за Кремль. Впервые за годы президент сделал то, что я бы сделал на его месте. И мы с ним, и мы со страной, и мы единая воля. И мы единое самоуважение. В нас чувство достоинства, чувство справедливости". Вот типичное, как говорят психологи, измененное состояние сознания одного из ярких трибунов оппозиции.
Но только почему же впервые. То же самое, почти дословно, с тем же чувством достоинства и справедливости вещал он в своих пламенных репортажах из пылающего Грозного, когда работал телевизионным киллером у Березовского. В той бригаде, которая через поход Басаева в Дагестан, через взрывы домов в Москве и Волгодонске, через те самые "Грады" в чистом поле вела Путина к власти. Вот что, видимо, действительно впервые, так это то, что на этот раз он испытывает и талантливо артикулирует состояние патриотического оргазма бесплатно.
И это гораздо опаснее, чем лицемерие. Лицемер не верит чуши, которую он несет, и не обязан руководствоваться ею в своих дальнейших поступках. Это не лицемерие российской "элиты", это ликующее состояние ее души.
Колом в горле стоят наворованные миллиарды. Не радуют уже дворцы на Лазурном берегу и в Швейцарских Альпах, сыновья в советах директоров банков и госкорпораций, дочки в Лондоне и Мюнхене, свечные заводики Gunvor'ов и Millhouse'ов. Нет-нет, никто не собирается от всего этого непосильным трудом нажитого отказываться. Только этого мало для русского клептократа на rendez-vous Истории.
Праздника жаждет душа. Праздника. Унижения ненавистных пиндосов и их прихвостней, окружающих нас со всех сторон. Бегства поверженного врага. Военных трофеев. Четырех джипов Humvee. Молчания СНГ-шных ягнят. Прискакавшего умиротворять дорогого Николя с шестью пунктами мира на все времена.
Кто испытал это сладостное чувство, кто подсел на этот пьянящий геополитический наркотик, тот уже ни на что на свете его не променяет. Теперь только вперед, до конца, на Тифлис, на Севастополь, на Донбасс, на Ревель, до Пятой Империи, до смирительной рубашки.
Народ для разврата собрался. Россия сосредоточилась.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-26-2008
Chena why do you post it? you try to show that in Russia there are many wiews? Or you think we will gladly accept every word just becouse it is in russian?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Giovane - 08-26-2008
Very interesting vote and discussion. The results of voting is so shoking, 'cause most of people think that Russia attacked Georgia, it's some kind of bullsh..t
8.8.8 Georgia attaket ossetian slippiing city, georgian army killed 2000 people, so, the information in newspappers -isn't trustworthy. Please, answer me, why american and european journalist didn't be in Ossetia????They was only in Georgia in that tragic day.... Because nowdays America has started company vs. Russia. I think that Bush and co. are in the time of cold war,and they think that Russia-it's USSR....
America accuses Russia in agressia, but why america attacked the IRAQ???? IRAQ hadn't bombs. Bushm Saakashvili are criminals
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-26-2008
Elrat Wrote:Let us make a very brief sortie into the history of the conflict.
Throughout a brief history of Georgia as a sovereign state: from 1918-1921 and 1991-2008 and it has nine times attempted to exterminate the population of South Ossetia. First it was under the menshevist government of the Georgian Democratic Republic (5000 South Ossetians killed and over 13000 died afterwards as the result of epidemics and famine). In 1921 Joseph Djugashvili (Stalin) and Sergo Ordjenikidze divided Ossetia and included the South part in the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic.
As in 1989 Georgia used the right of self-determination it has some-what denied that to the South Ossetians and denounced the autonomy of the republic.
In the 1989 Zviyad Gamsahurdia came forth with a slogan “Georgia for Georgians” and tried to annex the territories to Georgia. The main personages of those events were Georgian mafia Godfathers Kitovani and Ioseliani whose goals were either to intimidate the population into entering Georgia or leaving it or just kill all of them.
With the help of Russia as intermediary the government of Shevornadze in 1991 signed ceasefire treaty first with South Ossetia, afterwards with Abhazia, the guarantors of the peace were peacekeepers made up of Russians, Georgians and South Ossetians (Abhazians). The treaty provided for demilitarized zone but the militarist and nazi government of Adolf Saakashvili contrived to secretly (for Ossetians and Abhazians but not for NATO) shift its regular army with heavy artillery into the zone on an aimed-fire distance to Tshinvali. On the 8th of August the Georgian heavy artillery systems “Grads” opened fire on sleeping city predominantly aiming at residential area (hospitals, shops etc.). The purpose of this operation was to take the population and the Russian peacekeepers by surprise and to either force the Ossetians out of republic or just exterminate. The beast hoped the Russian government would not dare to interfere and the world community would be to busy with the Olympic games and just with American help to cover up the crimes. There were a lot of atrocities worse than during the WWII.
Was there any other way to the save the people of Ossetia and Abhazia from GENOCIDE?
The answer is NO!!!! No one can challenge the fact.
Name the sources you have read all this things........ :haha Come on, are you all OK. Please name the sources or documents, you are basing your story........
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-26-2008
Giovane Wrote:Very interesting vote and discussion. The results of voting is so shoking, 'cause most of people think that Russia attacked Georgia, it's some kind of bullsh..t
8.8.8 Georgia attaket ossetian slippiing city, georgian army killed 2000 people, so, the information in newspappers -isn't trustworthy. Please, answer me, why american and european journalist didn't be in Ossetia????They was only in Georgia in that tragic day.... Because nowdays America has started company vs. Russia. I think that Bush and co. are in the time of cold war,and they think that Russia-it's USSR....
America accuses Russia in agressia, but why america attacked the IRAQ???? IRAQ hadn't bombs. Bushm Saakashvili are criminals
I do agree with you that many civilians were killed in Iraq, But I have sevaral friends from there and many of them are happy that there no Sadam any more....Who was killing people without any reason...By the way Russia was in cooperation with Sadam......What about Putin, He destroyed huge number of Chechens, killed a lot of children in north Ossetia, and what is really terrible blasted two living flats in Moscow, where are chechen terrorist who did this terrible think, there are no any.....Is there any one in prison for this terrible terror......No because the only person responsible for this is Putin............