+- Forums (https://eu-forums.com)
+-- Forum: EU Forums (https://eu-forums.com/forum-19.html)
+--- Forum: Hot Topics (https://eu-forums.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Thread: Georgia and South Ossetia at war (/thread-1703.html)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - russian999 - 09-12-2008
Quote:Dont your ever forget, that USA is democratic country and not the Bush imperia. Look at what unbiased americans telling to you:
"American intelligence confirms that the latest military actions in South Ossetia were started by Georgia and Russia’s position in the conflict was correct, says Republican California Congressman Dana Rohrabacher.
You can watch it on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYS6mp8G8VQ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYS6mp8G8VQ</a><!-- m -->
Or you can search it on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.internationalrelations.house.gov/index.asp?subnav=close">http://www.internationalrelations.house ... bnav=close</a><!-- m -->
Dear georgians, you can read pro-georgians committee members testimonys <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.internationalrelations.house.gov/testimony.asp?subnav=close">http://www.internationalrelations.house ... bnav=close</a><!-- m -->, but even they was sayng, that it was Georgia, who started conflict .
So, you guys screw it up.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eka - 09-12-2008
russian999 Wrote:OKQuote:Dont your ever forget, that USA is democratic country and not the Bush imperia. Look at what unbiased americans telling to you:
"American intelligence confirms that the latest military actions in South Ossetia were started by Georgia and Russia’s position in the conflict was correct, says Republican California Congressman Dana Rohrabacher.
You can watch it on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYS6mp8G8VQ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYS6mp8G8VQ</a><!-- m -->
Or you can search it on <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.internationalrelations.house.gov/index.asp?subnav=close">http://www.internationalrelations.house ... bnav=close</a><!-- m -->
Dear georgians, you can read pro-georgians committee members testimonys <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.internationalrelations.house.gov/testimony.asp?subnav=close">http://www.internationalrelations.house ... bnav=close</a><!-- m -->, but even they was sayng, that it was Georgia, who started conflict .
So, you guys screw it up.
Finally I can conclude Russia Starts the WAR and Goegian govermant starts restirung order ON ITS OWN TERITORIES. The difference is that we were ON OWN LAND and you came and begin to bomb not only the tritories with separatists bur another parts to, this coused big demage to my country. So Russia is agressor, while Georgia was OHLY TRAING tO RESTORE ORDER ON ITS OWN LAND. This is mani thing.
And finally way are you russians siting at PCs and traing to asure others that you are right, if you fill right and fill winners. Your behavior psycologicaly doesnot looks like you fill that you winn.MOre my personall filling is that some of you are really are same as 20-30 years ago ( komslomol- komunists) and some of you are really ander havy propaganda but have some feeling that something is wrong and trayng to asure more yourselfs that you and your gocvermant are right.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eka - 09-12-2008
SiD Wrote:Eka Wrote:Dont your ever forget, that USA is democratic country and not the Bush imperia. Look at what unbiased americans telling to you:
"American intelligence confirms that the latest military actions in South Ossetia were started by Georgia and Russia’s position in the conflict was correct, says Republican California Congressman Dana Rohrabacher.SiD Wrote:Your questions were answered many times. You have chosen wrong person as your leader that could not awoid war. Are georgiabs have some difficulties dealing with reality? You are more dreamers.
Sid , please if you can provide with source as it must be usualy done. ( Dana Rohrabacher) It will be interesting.
And please answer this question about Haague - why Georgia applys to court but not Russia if its sure that Georgians killed 2000 osertians?
I can not found your answer on my main quistion - Why russia , Kokoiti and Bagapsh are against referendum with ALL IDPs from there to clarufy finnaly independance issue of these regions?
Your last argument when you have no reall ones to present is - dreamers.Its not a serios argument in disscussion. For exzample I can say that Russians are alcoholics thats way they behaive in such a strange way, but it will be not an argument . Its only will be my opinion about Russia nothing more.So are we dreamers or are you alcoholics with ideas to restore empaire, this are not arguments.
My main argument is that Sida KArtli was is and will be georgian teritory historically and politically. Population there was suffering from terorists and separatists ( both Osetians and Georgians), when we try to restore order and law there Russian Army rushed thry georgian border and occupied our teritory and then presidents( P and M) declere " indepedance' of 2 regions. After this only KUBA and NIKARArAGUA, xamas and hesbola backed Russia. There partners form East and from some western countries( Chex, Hungary and ... I dont remeber who else) even they OFFICALY does not support them.Unoffilcal support does not mean nothing for political elits in the world.Thousands of Georgians were dispalaced from region and nearby teritories.Georgia applied to Haagua court, while Russia has not done this.
About choosing appropriate person - maybe you gays will help with advice or maybe even you can send as some appropriate persion to choose or maybe directly to "put" him as president ? It will be great! you are choosing so corectly because have planty of former and acting FSB gays there.Can you rent as 1 or 2. We have shortage at this moment ( most of them are out of game now here).
Answers to your questions are scattered in this forum you can find if you want.
OOh you tried to restore order and law in S Osetia but are condaming us for same in Chechnya? I see. You would gladly done something bad to us but you simply cant. Why should we bother explaining then?
You are dreamers. You dream that there will come some US or EU politic on wise horse and bring you everything you need.
Dont you think Saakashvili could make something to improve relations with Russia? If you dont need it so face consiquences and stop blaming us.[/quote]
ON my main question I can not find answer( referendum with IDPs).And on another ones too. ( about Haague)
The words " zagranica nam pomojet" are inventid by RUssians not Georgians.
Pesonally me is not blaming you for Chechnya, but I suppose you Russians behaive there as barabrians and sadists.It must be done more softly.
About dreamers you have my answere.
And your last words are fully representing your intensiont toward my country and other not pro russian ones.
"If you dont need it so face consiquences and stop blaming us." Its means if you dont need Russia we will show you what it is.
That way even FInland now have discuucions in parlament that they must enter NATO, because there nebghor is uncontrolled and ruled by psycologically not healthy persons with complexses. This and more will be
consiquences for you . So think a little. Its typpical for you to act and that to think about consiquences.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - russian999 - 09-12-2008
Quote:Finally I can conclude Russia Starts the WAR and Goegian govermant starts restirung order ON ITS OWN TERITORIES. The difference is that we were ON OWN LAND and you came and begin to bomb not only the tritories with separatists bur another parts to, this coused big demage to my country. So Russia is agressor, while Georgia was OHLY TRAING tO RESTORE ORDER ON ITS OWN LAND. This is mani thing.
And finally way are you russians siting at PCs and traing to asure others that you are right, if you fill right and fill winners. Your behavior psycologicaly doesnot looks like you fill that you winn.MOre my personall filling is that some of you are really are same as 20-30 years ago ( komslomol- komunists) and some of you are really ander havy propaganda but have some feeling that something is wrong and trayng to asure more yourselfs that you and your gocvermant are right.
Actually, Rusian have sense of pity toward georgians, that is why I am sitting in front of PC. Because you guys wose set up by Saakashvily. And, if georgians does not change mind - you will be bitten up much more - next time with approval of USA and EU. Everybody have free choice - everybody will pay for this choice.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eka - 09-12-2008
russian999 Wrote:Thanck you for your answere. Now I understand - you Russians are pity for your choise and trying to show as that Saakashvili is wrong person for us. But who gave you this mission , who gave you right to " take decisions" about ruling independant state? Russia is traing to throw Saakashvili down last 1-1,5 year?I am not Saakashvilis fan at all. Even more many of as were against him, but not because his attitude toawrd Russian is wrong, but because another things you can not understand.But if you start the war because of your presidents personal; attitude to Saakashvili, of course it means something. Maybe you will think about it. Russia is not so strong and brave as you want to represent . When you feel you are week you are trayng to switch responsibility to others. Main thing is that Russia starts this war against Saakashvili and Georgia ( now he is representiong Georgia), while he was traing to restore the order on GEORGIAN TERITORIES. If Russians dream is to have this little piece of land with armed terrorists and gangs who are occupied with drug trading and traficing its her choise. Soon you will have same problems as in Russian part of Caucausus.Quote:Finally I can conclude Russia Starts the WAR and Goegian govermant starts restirung order ON ITS OWN TERITORIES. The difference is that we were ON OWN LAND and you came and begin to bomb not only the tritories with separatists bur another parts to, this coused big demage to my country. So Russia is agressor, while Georgia was OHLY TRAING tO RESTORE ORDER ON ITS OWN LAND. This is mani thing.
And finally way are you russians siting at PCs and traing to asure others that you are right, if you fill right and fill winners. Your behavior psycologicaly doesnot looks like you fill that you winn.MOre my personall filling is that some of you are really are same as 20-30 years ago ( komslomol- komunists) and some of you are really ander havy propaganda but have some feeling that something is wrong and trayng to asure more yourselfs that you and your gocvermant are right.
Actually, Rusian have sense of pity toward georgians, that is why I am sitting in front of PC. Because you guys wose set up by Saakashvily. And, if georgians does not change mind - you will be bitten up much more - next time with approval of USA and EU. Everybody have free choice - everybody will pay for this choice.
And we here in Georgia are not pity at all that you have such presidents ( there ministers are traying to hide documents during offical negotiations. I mean Sarkozi - medvedev negotiations) you Russians deserve FSB agaents and druanken Elcin. Its your choise. But your middle class after some periode will try to live in different way and this will bring you HUGE problems soon.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eugene from Belarus - 09-12-2008
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://expert.ru/printissues/russian_reporter/2008/34/news_informacionnaya_voyna/">http://expert.ru/printissues/russian_re ... aya_voyna/</a><!-- m -->
very interesting. now you will see how usa and EU will change their position)))
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - russian999 - 09-12-2008
Quote:Thanck you for your answere. Now I understand - you Russians are pity for your choise and trying to show as that Saakashvili is wrong person for us. But who gave you this mission , who gave you right to " take decisions" about ruling independant state? Russia is traing to throw Saakashvili down last 1-1,5 year?I am not Saakashvilis fan at all. Even more many of as were against him, but not because his attitude toawrd Russian is wrong, but because another things you can not understand.But if you start the war because of your presidents personal; attitude to Saakashvili, of course it means something. Maybe you will think about it. Russia is not so strong and brave as you want to represent . When you feel you are week you are trayng to switch responsibility to others. Main thing is that Russia starts this war against Saakashvili and Georgia ( now he is representiong Georgia), while he was traing to restore the order on GEORGIAN TERITORIES. If Russians dream is to have this little piece of land with armed terrorists and gangs who are occupied with drug trading and traficing its her choise. Soon you will have same problems as in Russian part of Caucausus.
And we here in Georgia are not pity at all that you have such presidents ( there ministers are traying to hide documents during offical negotiations. I mean Sarkozi - medvedev negotiations) you Russians deserve FSB agaents and druanken Elcin. Its your choise. But your middle class after some periode will try to live in different way and this will bring you HUGE problems soon.
My friend - I am middle class. And I was traveling all over the world. I have been in USA for long time. Believe me - I know about independency, democracy,totalitarism much more, thah average citizen of Russia or Georgia.And I want to tell you - that in whole world many irresponsible politics (like Saakashvily) trying to get into some questionable enterprises in order to get money, attention or power.They allways ended up similarly - they go to dampditch.
And there many wise and accountable politics (like Putin), who are responsible for what they doing.
And it is does not matter - who is totalitarian and who is democratic. What matter - accountability.
Better to be responsible totalitarin, then irresponsible messed up democratic.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 09-12-2008
From the beginning of this conflict - there was only one important
question - Who started ? It has been clear for a long time now - so it is useless to
discuss about it anymore.
Long term implications of this war will be fair - the one who started, will lose
S-Ossetia and Ahbazia, and also suffer of bad relations to EU and USA in
the future.
You know, when You start a war and lose it - You will allways be punished.
And it is fair
uper
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eka - 09-12-2008
russian999 Wrote:Quote:Thanck you for your answere. Now I understand - you Russians are pity for your choise and trying to show as that Saakashvili is wrong person for us. But who gave you this mission , who gave you right to " take decisions" about ruling independant state? Russia is traing to throw Saakashvili down last 1-1,5 year?I am not Saakashvilis fan at all. Even more many of as were against him, but not because his attitude toawrd Russian is wrong, but because another things you can not understand.But if you start the war because of your presidents personal; attitude to Saakashvili, of course it means something. Maybe you will think about it. Russia is not so strong and brave as you want to represent . When you feel you are week you are trayng to switch responsibility to others. Main thing is that Russia starts this war against Saakashvili and Georgia ( now he is representiong Georgia), while he was traing to restore the order on GEORGIAN TERITORIES. If Russians dream is to have this little piece of land with armed terrorists and gangs who are occupied with drug trading and traficing its her choise. Soon you will have same problems as in Russian part of Caucausus.
And we here in Georgia are not pity at all that you have such presidents ( there ministers are traying to hide documents during offical negotiations. I mean Sarkozi - medvedev negotiations) you Russians deserve FSB agaents and druanken Elcin. Its your choise. But your middle class after some periode will try to live in different way and this will bring you HUGE problems soon.
My friend - I am middle class. And I was traveling all over the world. I have been in USA for long time. Believe me - I know about independency, democracy,totalitarism much more, thah average citizen of Russia or Georgia.And I want to tell you - that in whole world many irresponsible politics (like Saakashvily) trying to get into some questionable enterprises in order to get money, attention or power.They allways ended up similarly - they go to dampditch.
And there many wise and accountable politics (like Putin), who are responsible for what they doing.
And it is does not matter - who is totalitarian and who is democratic. What matter - accountability.
Better to be responsible totalitarin, then irresponsible messed up democratic.
It’s wonderful that you understand that you live in totalitarian country. For me it’s better to live in democratic. I don’t know am I middle class, high or low but I known exactly that totalitarizm is bad and democracy is good. Very simple truth yes? I know that responsibility is not to make your homeland be hated and frightened by every democratically minded person in the world. And being not responsible is very unclear formulation for me. In this war which Russia started to represent its strength and power I suppose far results are more important then close ones.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 09-12-2008
Eka Wrote:It’s wonderful that you understand that you live in totalitarian country. For me it’s better to live in democratic.
I doubt that You nonetheless are living in undemocratic country.
You know, democracy is not something You can buy or import - and being pro-american
doesn't mean being democratic. A nation must develop its own way of democracy and it
is a long process - You can't pass it in few years as You suppose.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - russian999 - 09-12-2008
Quote:It’s wonderful that you understand that you live in totalitarian country. For me it’s better to live in democratic. I don’t know am I middle class, high or low but I known exactly that totalitarizm is bad and democracy is good. Very simple truth yes? I know that responsibility is not to make your homeland be hated and frightened by every democratically minded person in the world. And being not responsible is very unclear formulation for me. In this war which Russia started to represent its strength and power I suppose far results are more important then close ones.
My friend - responsibility is quality of caracter. Responsible person takes responsibility for his own action. When he is doing good - he admitiing this fact. When he is doing bad - he admitting this fact too and trying to change his bad behavior and makes restitution to everybody, who get hurt.
So, how saakashvily will make restitution to ossetians? Russians ,even not willingly, - will follow to EU and USA pressure to normalize situation in Georgia. But Saakashvily seems like did not repented for his military assault. So, responsibility - it is ability to repent and change mind from evil action, but Saakashvily just blamed others.
I saw many times in black areas of USA irresponsible people - who was shouting about freedom and democracy. What they want - its just chaos and orderless.And I clearly see - that Georgia going not to democracy - but to the chaos and absence of law. Maybe russian invaision will sober you up?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eugene from Belarus - 09-12-2008
Eka Wrote:It’s wonderful that you understand that you live in totalitarian country. For me it’s better to live in democratic. I don’t know am I middle class, high or low but I known exactly that totalitarizm is bad and democracy is good. Very simple truth yes? I know that responsibility is not to make your homeland be hated and frightened by every democratically minded person in the world. And being not responsible is very unclear formulation for me. In this war which Russia started to represent its strength and power I suppose far results are more important then close ones.it won't be sweet in your mouth if you said "sugar" a hundred times. It doesn't mean that you live in democratic country if everybody say it's democratic. And Russia is not totalitarian becouse everybody in your contry think it's totalitarian.
as concerned the issue who had started this war - open your eyes
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - RusNeko - 09-12-2008
Of course, russia is not totalitarian and not democratic. Something average. In russia we say - "golden center"
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eugene from Belarus - 09-12-2008
RusNeko Wrote:Of course, russia is not totalitarian and not democratic. Something average. In russia we say - "golden center"I guess we shiuld open a new topic - WHAT IS DEMOCRACY
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 09-12-2008
Eugene from Belarus Wrote:RusNeko Wrote:Of course, russia is not totalitarian and not democratic. Something average. In russia we say - "golden center"I guess we shiuld open a new topic - WHAT IS DEMOCRACY
It might be a very difficult theme - I suppose anyone in whole world can
explain it exhaustively. But it is still an interesting one to discuss about.
So go ahead and open it
lurp
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - mika - 09-12-2008
Eugene from Belarus Wrote:wow, that will be really interesting topic :-PRusNeko Wrote:Of course, russia is not totalitarian and not democratic. Something average. In russia we say - "golden center"I guess we shiuld open a new topic - WHAT IS DEMOCRACY
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - RusNeko - 09-12-2008
Russia has it's own democracy, US - its own, Ireland - its own. US cannot give us their "democracy", cos we have our.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 09-12-2008
What the form of government got to do with whole thing? Democracy doesnt mean anything and US already proven it.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 09-12-2008
SiD Wrote:What the form of government got to do with whole thing? Democracy doesn't mean anything and US already proven it.
Indeed nothing - but it is interesting because US always justifies its actions with need of
democracing its targets - and because US thinks that it is the only one who can tell us
what is needed to be an democratic country.
So why we accept that kind of attitude from it - do we really think US is kind of
more democratic country than e.g. old European countries - or Scandinavia ?
I myself think that US is far behind e.g. Scandinavia what becomes to democracy.
So they should stop telling everyone else how to live.- and better learn them self
from other countries what it is meant to be democratic.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lenus - 09-13-2008
independent Wrote:SiD Wrote:What the form of government got to do with whole thing? Democracy doesn't mean anything and US already proven it.
Indeed nothing - but it is interesting because US always justifies its actions with need of
democracing its targets - and because US thinks that it is the only one who can tell us
what is needed to be an democratic country.
So why we accept that kind of attitude from it - do we really think US is kind of
more democratic country than e.g. old European countries - or Scandinavia ?
I myself think that US is far behind e.g. Scandinavia what becomes to democracy.
So they should stop telling everyone else how to live.- and better learn them self
from other countries what it is meant to be democratic.
independent, SiD
Which democratic regime has ever been overthrown by US?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - russian999 - 09-13-2008
TO LENUS
My friend, tell me why so many Georgians living in Russia? Half million in Moscow and 1 million in other citys.
I had georgians housekeper, she told me frankly - in Georgia not so mucn money, cold in winter and difficult to find job. Why you thinking, that totalitarism worse than democracy?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lenus - 09-13-2008
russian999 Wrote:TO LENUSExactly for the same reasons why Russians live in USA or Europe.
My friend, tell me why so many Georgians living in Russia?
Why?
russian999 Wrote:Half million in Moscow and 1 million in other citys.Exagerated.
I've worked among few Hundreed Russians, tHey are convinced of being protected from radiation if tHey consume More Vodka! And if tHey are exposed to Harmful substances, like painting or Heavy Dust, one glass of milk in a day neutralises it! Morover, I ve seen you r regulations, restricting work at HeigHts witHout Harnesses for 5 meters and HigHer work locations.
And you believe your people live in good conditions? THats wHy tHey seek work in otver countries too!
russian999 Wrote:Why you thinking, that totalitarism worse than democracy?I'd love to elaborate, but we are distancing from topic.
Can you properly answer my point made regarding Russians brainwasiness?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - russian999 - 09-13-2008
Quote:Can you properly answer my point made regarding Russians brainwasiness?
Russians not brainwashed. Lets call it selfrighteousness. Look at definition to Webster
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lenus - 09-13-2008
russian999 Wrote:Quote:Can you properly answer my point made regarding Russians brainwasiness?
Russians not brainwashed. Lets call it selfrighteousness. Look at definition to Webster
:mrgreen: leave it off.
Are Russians Black and white thinking type - 100% (you still struggle to understand what does "dis-proportionate" mean).
Are Russians locked from receiveing independent Information - 100%. Most of Russians dont speak proper english, and majority of them never regard western media as unbiased one, anyway.
SO, Russians are BRAINWAShED, BIG TIME!
I suggest you ask Putin to look up the definition of DISPROPORTIONATE in the webster!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - russian999 - 09-13-2008
Quote: leave it off.
Are Russians Black and white thinking type - 100% (you still struggle to understand what does "dis-proportionate" mean).
Are Russians locked from receiveing independent Information - 100%. Most of Russians dont speak proper english, and majority of them never regard western media as unbiased one, anyway.
SO, Russians are BRAINWAShED, BIG TIME!
I suggest you ask Putin to look up the definition of DISPROPORTIONATE in the webster!
Ok, lets get it straight! Black and white thinking - "My government is good - you government is bad".
I tell you frankly - russian government is bullshit. Tell me same things about Saakashvily - and I will agree with you - that you are not brainwashed