Quote:в Цхинвали тем временем происходило следующее: в пятницу российские военные отрапортовали, что мы освободили Цхинвали, а в воскресенье вечером командующий Смешанными силами по поддержанию мира в зоне грузино-осетинского конфликта генерал-майор Марат Кулахметов снова отрапортовал, что освободил Цхинвали. Это означает, что грузинские войска в течение двух с половиной дней удерживали Цхинвали, в то время как по ним шел шквальный огонь даже не из российских танков, которые застряли в Джаве, а с воздуха. В землю вколачивались грузинские войска вместе с мирными гражданами, которые уцелели после грузинского обстрела "Градом".

Теперь действительно можно сказать, что российская армия непобедима, что путинская модель войны с точки зрения поставленных целей абсолютно гениальна. Впервые эта модель была отработана в Беслане, когда террористы захватили заложников, заложников взорвали вместе с террористами, а потом прокуратура стала проводить расследование против террористов. Здесь мы видим похожую модель: сначала грузины обстреливают Цхинвали "Градом" и захватывают его, потом в ответ наша армия начинает освобождать Цхинвали, но поскольку он не освобождается, грузин вместе с мирным населением сносят авиацией, после чего начинают расследовать военные преступления. Абсолютно непобедимая модель, против таких методов войны действительно устоять невозможно.

Yalta1945 Wrote:It will be soon 3 months since the last escalation of the war. Just in a few days since the start there were already very useful comments and information which I encounter now. Something wrong must be with the reporting itself, if I learn it all not from the TV channels and internet portals I presumed to be basic and sufficient; and I learn it so late. Now it seems that preparation for the war against Georgia had been at full speed ever since Europe refused to offer an action plan for Georgia to be admitted to NATO. It provoked Russia. Or, it was a signal to Russia. It looks like a conspiracy now. Georgian president was right when he described “the more there will be war, the less NATO”. It should be also true the other way: The less NATO, the more war. Who can prove that Georgia means anything to Europe? Where was the news about the events in South Ossetia before the August escalation? Nobody cared. It’s just like inventing “the end of history” (Fukuyama) when the genocide takes place in Ruanda. Ruanda must have been somewhere beyond our Solar system if we could think this way. It’s like neglecting social issues and deprived persons in our societies until it becomes a criminal problem… When the Stalinist USSR made its ultimatum to Lithuania demanding that the Soviet army were let in, Molotov said to Lithuanian minister Urbšys: accept it or not, we are going to enter Lithuania in any case. I believe it was similar to Georgia. Some Russian comment:

Yalta1945 Wrote:I’m fed up with reading imperialistic or nationalistic views… I think I'll soon stop casting perls.

Quote:What MILITARY has posted indeed appears to be correct, because there is a huge difference between how the army performed on the ground and how the political leadership acted. Up to the brigade level the military, especially artillery units worked quite effectively. They quickly wiped out the militants who had been for days shelling from mortars nearby villages and took on the invading Russian armoured columns. The fierce battle took place at the blown-up Gufta bridge which the Russians were desperately trying to rebuilt. In initial two days Moscow sustained significant losses in military equipment and personnel, including its destroyed Army HQ element, the wounded Army commander Gen Khrulev and several lost combat aircraft. On 8 and 9 August the Georgians seemed to be coping with the adversary. Around 11 pm on 9 August Saakashvili convened the National security council meeting, boasted about military achievements and behaved in the most arrogant way. However, six hours later he ordered the troops to cease fire and retreat.
Mistakes and blunders made during this operation are noteworthy:
- the decision to enter Tskhivnali was foolish as this city didn't constitute any strategic importance and the control of all surrounding hills must have been enough, especially given that the local armed groups had just one way out of the city. Operations in urban terrain usually require a lot of time and human resources, result in casualties and decrease the tempo of advance which was inadmissible in this case as well. Yet, the top leadership decided to sacrifice military considerations for the sake of political symbols;
- although the heavy artillery always paves the way for an infantry attack, the use of BM-21Grad was still unjustifiable despite a high probability that the very existence of enemy's firing positions in the city was aimed at provoking the Georgian assault which would result in civilian deaths. This was what the Kremlin so badly needed for its dirty propaganda purposes;
- despite the repeated purge of commanding officers, the military apparently still lacked confidence from the government which resulted in a few 'political commissars' actively participating in MDMP and, therefore, the officers being deprived of the right to conduct operations the way they preferred.
The victory over Russia in this tiny enclave would have been possible if the Georgians had secured the Roki tunnel connecting the two countries and the only road running from there to Tshkinvali. But the Russian air superiority and the threat of all-out invasion from the Black Sea battleships and Abkhazian territory made it unrealistic. This could be a reason why Saakashvili promptly ordered the army to break off the contact which still didn't prevent a large-scale invasion from the seaside. Therefore, the war was lost due to the reckless political leaders who had neither knowledge nor ability to figure out consequences of falling into Russian trap and make reasonable decisions. Such people usually end up in jails.

Military Wrote:If you decide to examine the run of active combat actions of Georgian army during recent military conflict in South Ossetia, then you can see that in reality from a military point of view our soldiers and their command officers have obtain serious success in the opening stage of this military operation.
See for yourself! Our opponent – Ossetian military units – was in full readiness for war, was ease at the terrain, as well as, was perfectly equipped with all types of small arms and heavy armor. Nevertheless our military managed to take advantage of the fact that Ossetian troops had not stable interaction between each other, and as a result of it their system of defense was quickly collapsed under the fire of our heavy artillery. Strategic high points around Tskhinvali were seized by our Georgian soldiers without significant losses. In fact, these military achievements meant utter defeat for Ossetian army. But unfortunately it was only first phase of the battle.
Then our political leadership showed its great short sight and lack of reality. Successfully winning the first stage of the battle, Saakashvili began to give incompatible orders to our military, disorganizing the work of Central Command of our AF. As a result of it activities of command staffs in brigades and battalions of our army were fully blocked. And even emergency takeover by Georgian Interior Minister, V. Merabishvili, with active political support of Tbilisi’s mayor, G. Ugulava, who had to arrive to Gori in the closing stage of this operation, was unable to restore controllability and required flexibility of our troops.
Thus, Georgian soldiers have lost this war, but not because of the inadequacy for doing their military duty, as mass media tries to present us now. It has happened only because of untalented and irresponsible behavior of our current political leaders, who must be cast from their high posts as soon as possible!

Quote:Report this postReply with quote Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war
by Benn on Yesterday, 21:39

Is it so Russian999? Russia doesn't want to make steps towards democracy? Maybe it's the stereotype that makes you think this way? When I was in Moscow I saw a pretty democratic city, you know, much more freedom than I expected.

Quote:So Russians must be happy with what they have. Russia's government system is so complex that I believe it's very difficult to penetrate among the circles of high-officials. Maybe this is the reason Russians don't want changes?

Military Wrote:If you decide to examine the run of active combat actions of Georgian army during recent military conflict in South Ossetia, then you can see that in reality from a military point of view our soldiers and their command officers have obtain serious success in the opening stage of this military operation.
See for yourself! Our opponent – Ossetian military units – was in full readiness for war, was ease at the terrain, as well as, was perfectly equipped with all types of small arms and heavy armor. Nevertheless our military managed to take advantage of the fact that Ossetian troops had not stable interaction between each other, and as a result of it their system of defense was quickly collapsed under the fire of our heavy artillery. Strategic high points around Tskhinvali were seized by our Georgian soldiers without significant losses. In fact, these military achievements meant utter defeat for Ossetian army. But unfortunately it was only first phase of the battle.
Then our political leadership showed its great short sight and lack of reality. Successfully winning the first stage of the battle, Saakashvili began to give incompatible orders to our military, disorganizing the work of Central Command of our AF. As a result of it activities of command staffs in brigades and battalions of our army were fully blocked. And even emergency takeover by Georgian Interior Minister, V. Merabishvili, with active political support of Tbilisi’s mayor, G. Ugulava, who had to arrive to Gori in the closing stage of this operation, was unable to restore controllability and required flexibility of our troops.
Thus, Georgian soldiers have lost this war, but not because of the inadequacy for doing their military duty, as mass media tries to present us now. It has happened only because of untalented and irresponsible behavior of our current political leaders, who must be cast from their high posts as soon as possible!

Quote:If you decide to examine the run of active combat actions of Georgian army during recent military conflict in South Ossetia, then you can see that in reality from a military point of view our soldiers and their command officers have obtain serious success in the opening stage of this military operation.

Verb Wrote:

Quote:Yeah, come on, in this stage Georgian militery acted against bad equipped militias and used Grad missiles bombing civilian areas in Tshinvali.))) In the second stage Georgian militery had to deal with Russian army and could do nothing but cowardly escape)))

Just take a looke at BRILLIANT NAVAL OPERATION OF GEORGIAN NAVY))))
I still guess what did they want))) I read "The times" news paper those days where vounded georgian soldiers told that they had no chance at all - "the whole convoy was bombed... i awakened in the heap of corpses, hundreds of corpses were everywhere around me", one of them told.

The most funny thing is that Georgian goverment reports that they lost about 100 soldiers ONLY!!!!))

No, really, just try to calculate (bringing information from western media for example), you will logically get the much bigger number.

Quote:After all he could be shocked and frightened and dozen dead people could be seen like hundreds to him