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Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - DHVT77 - 06-14-2009
I found this text in internet (it isn't mine)
(the autor of the text originates from outside of Anglo-Saxon lingual area)
Religion and philosophy as illness
1. All domain of esoterism, of yoga, of meditation can be counted to the area of natural (primeval) religion. It is the same what shamanistic beliefs and practices.
2. These practices consist in the obtainment of the state of trance, in the same way as meditation.
Trance is the state of waking dream, in the same way one defined schizophrenia and in the same way can be defined paranoid psychosis.
3. Thus this domain does not lead to enlightenment, only psychosis, that is to say illness.
4. The illness appeared at the rising of religion, before tens thousands of years, and the illness appeared on following stage of development of religion and at the rising and during the development of philosophy.
5. All field of religion, and most of philosophy (which is in fact an only certain version of religion) are self-possessed by morbid condition.
6. Exist no supernatural beings, from field of religion stays only reincarnation, but seized unlike till now.
7. Posthumous state is the same what state of sleep (it is a state of unconsciousness), and is not a state of intelligent and goal-directed activity (this is state of unactiveness)
8. After the posthumous ′sleep ′, comes the time on birth and a next life, the man holds stably mental level, sex, interests.
9. The law of karma is a fiction, though following incarnations ′continue′ previous.
10. Religion should disappear and give place subdomain of psychology interesting in the problem of 'posthumous state' as identical with state of sleep. There should disappear also philosophy and give place scientific studies (theory of science).
P.D. (2009)
___________________________________________________________________________________________
resp. 1.
Astrology is the same what the divination from scattered animal bones - so from an aleatorily obtained configuration, the part of bones fulfil planets; ′the accurateness′ owes inaccuracy of used categories which each separately are able to contain the cross-section through all problem-areas.
resp. 2.
The british neurologist Hughlings Jackson (1835-1911) had remarked: "find out all about dreams, and you will find out all about insenity".
In the first years after discovery of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, researchers belived they had acquired a tool for investigation of Haughlings Jackson's premise. They supposed that schizophrenia might represent the intrusion of the dream state into wakefulness, and, therefore, there was the prospect of being able to link dream cognition to psychosis through REM sleep.
In "Psychology and Life" (1977), P.G. Zimbardo, F.L. Ruch (subchapter concerning the sleep and sleepy dreams) we can find information that according to research of W.C.Dement from the sixties of twentieth century, occurrent symptoms of schizophrenia at patients, can be an indication of the activity which normally would find an outlet in the form of sleepy dreams in REM phases.
resp. 3.
from "Religion, culture and mental health" (2006), K.Loewenthal, Cambridge University Press, s. 18-19:
"Peters, Day, McKenna & Orbach (1999) marshal the arguments that ‘certain groups of people have similar experiences to the positive symptoms of schizophrenia’ (notably delusions)...(Jackson & Fulford, 1997). Peters et al. compared members of two types of ... groups (New ReligiousMovements, or NRMs...) with non-religious people, and with psychotic patients suffering from delusions. The NRM members were drawn from the Hare Krishna group and from a Pagan order (Druids). Two measures of delusional thinking were used in this study (which included factors such as persecution, paranormal beliefs and religiosity). The main findings and conclusions from this study were:
* Individuals from the NRMs scored higher than the non-religious on the delusions measures, but scored similarly to the deluded, psychotic group. This score included a measure of ‘florid, psychotic symptoms ... rarely endorsed in the normal population’ (the Delusions Symptoms-State Inventory, DSSI, Foulds & Bedford, 1975).
* NRM members were, however, less distressed and preoccupied by their delusional experiences than were the psychotic patients.
..."
Buddhism for example consists in obtainment of the state of waking dream, which wrongly, similarly how in old shamanism, is taking as enlightenment; further it has to mean going out and the break-up of elements of the mental life - in this it is visible nihilism; in fact the loss of consciousness in the state of nirvana is the same what the loss of consciousness after fall into a sleep, and the only abiding effect is developing paranoid psychosis, the same refers to other forms of yoga.
Paranormal abilities can be explained as disorder of perception of spatiotemporal continuum, so a state of disorders.
resp. 4.
The beginning of religion ties in with the answer on the question about after-life and with the rising of practices of shamanistic poisonings. These practices and technic of trance, that is to say waking dream (see p.2.), led to the development of mental illness.
(from these practices derives modern drug addiction and prevalent custom abuses of the tobacco, coffee and alcohol).
The rising of polytheism was probably connected with some morbid condition. The rising of monotheism ties in with the person of Pharaoh of Egypt Akhenaton (Amenhotep IV), which suffered from Marfan′s syndrome and because of disorders caused by this illness modified drastically and pathologically well-known more early monolatry. Akhenaton was a real founder of monotheism.
Middle East Aryans brought, during incursions, newly arisen monotheism to India. There came into being also the first philosophical version of this doctrine which we find in Upanishad, this is conception of absolute. This theory reached later to basin of Mediterranean Sea from India.
The rising of philosophy in Greece distinguishes the appearance of the following ill figure, which was Pythagoras who created philosophy as the certain sort of absolutism (that is to say monotheism), so only as certain version of religion. Thenceforward, until today the most of philosophy exists exclusively as the certain sort of religion.
Morbid condition is well visible at continuators of Pythagoras, such as Plato, Aristotle
(for example the teacher of Plato Socrates was a complete fool and a degenerate who only copied techniques of Sophists, and Alexander the Macedonian schoolboy of Aristotle was a mere ill paranoiac), Plotinus, Thomas, Kant, Hegel and others.
To convince himself about this will suffice to take to the hand of the writing of Aristotle, Kant, Hegel or Heidegger - they contain mostly balderdash and ′descriptions′ of rubbishes - so as outpourings of mentally ill persons.
Every stream of present philosophy except certain sorts of philosophy of science, one can consider as the manifestation of mental illness.
(in the domain of philosophy of science, the example of ill trend can be popperism; it is worth to notice also that from field of religion and philosophy illness will force its way to other fields of humanities, science and culture; for example aground of sociology a symptom of the state of mental illness is antinaturalism or humanistic sociology).
resp. 5.
resp. 6.
demons do not exist, and how show recent researches (Zarkel 2006), demons are only oligophrenics in posthumous state; from "What is this Schizophrenia ? what is demon ? demons ?" (this article is available in internet):
"So called Schizophrenia has its source in posthumous activity of moderately and severely retarded persons...
Usually it is assumed that schizophrenia concern about 1 per cent of population; but for example in Denmark, there was about 20495 cases of registered schizophrenia in 1999, according to data of Danish Psychiatric Central Register (what parallel with 0,4 % of population equal 5,4 millions people)...
If 10 % of mentally retarded are moderately retarded, and 4 % of mentally retarded are severely retarded, so for whole percentage of mentally retarded which is estimating at 2,86 %, imbeciles (14 % from 2,86 %) can get precisely 0,4 %. Convergence of values is here not accidental and frequency of occurrence of schizophrenia is overestimated."
in the same way do not exist angels, deities, paradises - it is only sleepy phantoms. While God and absolute is only a product of illness.
resp. 7.
resp. 8.
for example the virtuoso of piano in the next incarnation will be also the virtuoso of piano or other instrument, if he is a male, will stay a male.
resp. 9.
resp. 10.
The question what is the after-life which was the beginning of religion, can prosperously be taken by psychology.
Science itself should be cleaned also from superstitions and morbid ideas whose the example can be mentioned already humanistic sociology, antinaturalism, marxism or psychoanalysis.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Nathan - 06-25-2009
People treat a belief, a theory or sth else in one or another way, being led by their individual perception and beliefs. There exists no one who could unravel fully the mysteries of nature. That's why you can't claim that your theory is the only one that's correct. Who knows, may be schizophrenics really see devils, phantoms, spirits, which remain invisible to us.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - DHVT77 - 06-26-2009
Quote: That's why you can't claim that your theory is the only one that's correctI have written clearly that it isn't my text
Quote: There exists no one who could unravel fully the mysteries of nature
fully not but partly it is possible, it is making by sience and it is making by this theory
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Riser - 06-26-2009
Quote: That's why you can't claim that your theory is the only one that's correctYeah I see, but, since you have read it and even made a topic about it I suppose you partly agree with this theory, if not fully
I have written clearly that it isn't my text
. Tell me then, what YOU think about it all?
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - DHVT77 - 06-27-2009
first three points seem obvious
in fourth the author presents an interested suggestion that morbid condition did not embrace only the area of primeval religion but from there went on other forms of religion and even philosophy
first 5,5 points don't raise greater doubts, following 4,5 are specific terra incognita and surely for long so will be
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - DHVT77 - 06-27-2009
first 6,5
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - tricker - 06-30-2009
Quote:first three points seem obvious
Quote:3. Thus this domain does not lead to enlightenment, only psychosis, that is to say illness.Do you really think this obvious and reasonable? To my mind religion doesn't lead to illness. Religion is that thing that makes us respect and love each other. Without it humans would suffer much many wars than actually take place.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - DHVT77 - 07-04-2009
Inversely, religion is form of aberration and is evil, it was causing, is causing, and will causing many wars (let's consider for example case of Islam)
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Laurentine - 07-04-2009
Quote:(let's consider for example case of Islam)Ok, if you think so, it is your right. But the most of the wars are based on the political issues, that's either sb wants more lands together with the minerals, fuel, and so on, or race and religion.
Now about Islam, it's a foul political play which is hiding behind the religion. As a matter of fact, simple people don't want war, they want peace as the rest of us... Hijackers for instance, are trained, both physically and psychically, they are instilled into the idea that the whole world is against them, and they must die and kill people for the sake of Allah. But their religion as you might notice, is about completely opposite things - it teaches them to love people around them, etc. So, it is not the religion that provokes wars, but politics and insatiable eyes of political leaders!
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Big_Becka - 07-04-2009
I think that religion can compound an illness, but is not necesarily the cause. Religion has always been used to explain things that people do not understand. So it is easy for someone who has, say, schizophrenia to rationalise their situation by beleiving God is speaking to them. Likewise, religion is used to justify wars when it isn't the real root cause: Geroge W Bush famously claimed that God wanted him to invade Iraq.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Laurentine - 07-04-2009
Quote:Likewise, religion is used to justify wars when it isn't the real root cause: Geroge W Bush famously claimed that God wanted him to invade Iraq.You are right, in this way they wanna make people have confidence in them and their deeds.
Quote:Religion has always been used to explain things that people do not understand.This is true too. But religion also helps people believe. But the faith is a kind of a relief.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - hellodear - 08-11-2009
"nobody is so credulous as a person that doesn't belive" Irinei Lionsky sad. means the faith, debates on the most importants topics, thoughts are necessery to us. they make us deeper , make us to think and to LIVE :roll:
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - hellodear - 08-11-2009
IT IS very strange that people siad that nothing except them exists on the Earth. but who created the LOVE, FRIENDSHIP, CASE????
"It's not enought that God doesn't exist but you try to found a plumber in an unworking Satturday", Vuddy Allan sad)))))))))))
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Kusnetsov - 08-11-2009
We usually learn about three evolutianory stages of human outlook development: mythological, religious and philosopical (i.e. scientific) outlooks (or ways of thinking). This means the evolution of (scientific) knowledge of a human being about the World and itself. Thus considering philosophy being an illness claims outlook and thinking in the whole to be the illness as well... Though "non sanz droict". Usually the periods of mental and social crisises within a civilization are characterized with the constant returns to the non-scientific way of thinking. It's up to you to deside whether it's good or symptoms of disease.
P.S. Some kinds of meditation help to concentrate your mental, intellectual and physical capacities to live in the world and not to escape from it.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - tricker - 08-11-2009
I think thatphilosophy is the reflection of not too healthy people. No philosopher was a man in the center of attention, communicability, agreeable and understood by all. When man has no place in the world he is trying to create an imaginary world, they create their place. That's why are invented so much religions and sects, tutoring and philosophical thoughts.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Kusnetsov - 08-12-2009
Quote:I think thatphilosophy is the reflection of not too healthy people. No philosopher was a man in the center of attention, communicability, agreeable and understood by all. When man has no place in the world he is trying to create an imaginary world, they create their place. That's why are invented so much religions and sects, tutoring and philosophical thoughts.
You're mistaken greatly.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - hellodear - 08-12-2009
tricker Wrote:I think thatphilosophy is the reflection of not too healthy people. No philosopher was a man in the center of attention, communicability, agreeable and understood by all. When man has no place in the world he is trying to create an imaginary world, they create their place. That's why are invented so much religions and sects, tutoring and philosophical thoughts.
But philosophy is a normal process of human existance. Everybody of us is a philosopher when he thinks about himself.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Peach - 08-12-2009
Kusnetsov Wrote:Quote:I think thatphilosophy is the reflection of not too healthy people. No philosopher was a man in the center of attention, communicability, agreeable and understood by all. When man has no place in the world he is trying to create an imaginary world, they create their place. That's why are invented so much religions and sects, tutoring and philosophical thoughts.
You're mistaken greatly.
is his opinion .... and I think he partial is right. Name at least one philosopher who has been mentally healthy ... but not necessarily crazy, with special inclinations to solitude, silence, etc. I do not think you'll find the answer to this question. Which had to be demonstrated. :langue
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Kusnetsov - 08-13-2009
Quote:is his opinion .... and I think he partial is right. Name at least one philosopher who has been mentally healthy ... but not necessarily crazy, with special inclinations to solitude, silence, etc. I do not think you'll find the answer to this question. Which had to be demonstrated.
Let's begin: all the encyclopaedists ( Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Voltaire, Denis Diderot, etc.), Sir Thomas More, Goethe, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Lev Tolstoy, Karl Marx, Bertrand Russell, Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, Michel Foucault. And many more, trust me. They all were not only the great thinkers but public and political figures or teachers at educational establishments as well. Their activity was conditioned by their features of character that are considered to be normal from the point of veiw of Psychology. Of course, we may say many of them had whims but we all have our own peculiarities. We also may say they needed solitude to think their thoughts over. Still it was and is still not an obligatory condition.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Faw_Peter - 08-14-2009
Philosophy is a reflection in voice of human brain, reflecting a deep, detailed, sometimes confusing and mystical thoughts. Philosophers are solitary people, people who see life different than all of us.
How about religion - since people appeared, looking for a supernatural power, what a man can not have, to watch him, to help etc.. Someone believes in gods, deity, in life (fate). all we believe in something, in something... good
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Guest - 08-23-2009
Quote: How about religion - since people appeared, looking for a supernatural power, what a man can not have, to watch him, to help etc.. Someone believes in gods, deity, in life (fate). all we believe in something, in something... goodrubbish
intelligent people don't believe in anything, (intelligent person must know something, not believe)
Quote: Karl Marx, Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, Michel Foucault...They all were not only the great thinkers...
these guys were sick for sure, believe me
Quote: But philosophy is a normal process of human existance
if you will read an article from first post, you will see that philosophy is ABNORMAL process, as same as religion (if author of the text is right and I think that he is right, because he made very simple and clear reasoning)
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Faw_Peter - 08-24-2009
Europe Forum Guest Wrote:intelligent people don't believe in anything, (intelligent person must know something, not believe)
they may not believe in religion but believe in life, their work in coincidences and so on. and you will not be right about that! each person must decide what must and what not, and that doesn't means that if believes is less intelligent.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - Kusnetsov - 08-25-2009
Quote:these guys were sick for sure, believe me
As sick as you and me are. Actually, alternative (a bit an unusual) way of thinking is not a diagnosis of a mental disease. At least it should not be considered this. Thinking is good, believe me.
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - FreeThinker - 08-25-2009
Kusnetsov Wrote:Quote:these guys were sick for sure, believe me
As sick as you and me are. Actually, alternative (a bit an unusual) way of thinking is not a diagnosis of a mental disease. At least it should not be considered this. Thinking is good, believe me.
uper
Re: Religion, philosophy, hermeticism, mysticism = illness ? - M.Helen - 08-25-2009
Kusnetsov Wrote:Quote:these guys were sick for sure, believe me
As sick as you and me are. Actually, alternative (a bit an unusual) way of thinking is not a diagnosis of a mental disease. At least it should not be considered this. Thinking is good, believe me.
not talk about how they think but about their behavior, lifestyle. You mean they were all like a men with normal thinking? If yes, we all are great philosophers! all these people live in a world of their own: in a world where no one confused them to think,to write, its philosophy; than in the real world where all most no one understand them.