UKIP

[Winston]

Are you happy that the UK Independence Party is growing in popularity?

I am. I love to see the recent polls and celebrity endorsements.

UKIP is going to rid us of the fascist European Union menace.

e.g.

David Prowse MBE
"And I have two messages for those considering how to vote. Firstly, stop, look and listen to what is being said. Only UKIP is actually telling us the truth about the European Union and why we need to leave it. Secondly, may June the fourth be with you."

Frank Carson
"We need to get out of the EU and ditch the human rights legislation"

[Big_Becka]

I have noticed both UKIP and the BNP growing in popularity - both are very active in my town. Other fringe parties like the Christian Alliance are giving part political broadcasts.

I think this is a reaction to the failure of mainstream politicians to manage the country sensibly, and a reflection of the mistrust the public have for politicians.

UKIP use evocative images from World War 2, and inflammatory comments about the EU. What is the "truth" about the EU? What is the alternative to their human rights legislation?

It seems to me that UKIP are very right wing and similar to the BNP. I have visions of the local kids becoming neo-Nazis and forcing me to flee the area! Can you reassure me that UKIP have some considered policies, and are not just fanatics capitalising on public anger?

[Winston]

I have noticed both UKIP and the BNP growing in popularity - both are very active in my town. Other fringe parties like the Christian Alliance are giving part political broadcasts.

I think this is a reaction to the failure of mainstream politicians to manage the country sensibly, and a reflection of the mistrust the public have for politicians.

UKIP use evocative images from World War 2, and inflammatory comments about the EU. What is the "truth" about the EU? What is the alternative to their human rights legislation?

It seems to me that UKIP are very right wing and similar to the BNP. I have visions of the local kids becoming neo-Nazis and forcing me to flee the area! Can you reassure me that UKIP have some considered policies, and are not just fanatics capitalising on public anger?

Absolutely. The UK Independence Party is entirely different to the BNP. For a start, I would be ineligible for BNP membership (not that I would go near them) because I am of mixed race. Secondly, UKIP is not a far right party. It is a non-racist, moderate, libertarian party, whereas the BNP is a highly racist and authoritarian party.


The mainstream press rarely gives UKIP favourable coverage because they are in bed with the mainstream parties. As it happens, UKIP's has a lot of common sense policies. For example:

a flat tax rate (incl NI) starting at £10,000;
scrapping inheritance tax;
scrap human rights act etc.

You ask what is the alternative to the EU's human rights legislation. I would say our Magna Carta, Anglo-Saxon Common Law and the English Bill of Rights. Our Britsh system is seen as fair and has been copied all over the free world. The European system assumes guilt. We also have (had) trial by jury, whereas the European model allows a bloated judge to decide whether you are innocent or guilty.

We've been betrayed by all of the mainstream political parties because they all support further EU integration. We have nothing against the people of Europe, in fact, we still want to trade with them, but on our terms.

UKIP is not extremist. We don't want to be tied to the EU; we want to be able to choose to trade with the rest of the world without outside interference.

Let's not allow the European Commission elite to deceive us. UKIP is an anti-EU party, they are not anti-Europe.

So you see, there's nothing to fear from a big UKIP success in the Euro elections.

Finally, are you aware of the Fixated Threat Assessment Centre?

[Big_Becka]

Winston - you should be a politician! You make more sense than my local UKIP representatives! Sadly most politicians (not just UKIP) seem to be treating the electorate like idiots during this election. The leaflets I've been getting through the door are an insult...

You have given me some food for thought - I'm going to do some reading before I respond to most of this ;-)

I am worried that a flat tax rate would represent a significant rise in income tax for most working people, and we already have very high taxes compared to other countries. Last year I investigated taking a job in Germany - who are known for their very high taxes - and found that UK and German taxes are comparable (if you include NI, Council tax, etc). And the Germans seem to get better value for their taxes 8-)

I was not aware of the The Fixated Threat Assessment Centre, but it doesn't surprise me :nonnon I am strongly opposed to the rather extreme "anti-terror" actions that have been implemented over the last few years, such as increasing the amount of time that you can be held without trial, and using anti-terror laws against peaceful, lawful protesters.

However, these are the actions of the UK Labour government (with the encouragement of the USA's Bush administration) - are you saying there is an EU link?

For the benefit of others:

Revealed: Blair's secret stalker squad
by JASON LEWIS
Last updated at 21:21 27 May 2007

The Government has established a shadowy new national anti-terrorist unit to protect VIPs, with the power to detain suspects indefinitely using mental health laws.
The revelation is set to reignite the row over the Government's use of draconian measures to deal with terror suspects amid accusations they are abusing human rights.
The Fixated Threat Assessment Centre (FTAC) was quietly set up last year to identify individuals who pose a direct threat to VIPs including the Prime Minister, the Cabinet and the Royal Family.
It was given sweeping powers to check more than 10,000 suspects' files to identify mentally unstable potential killers and stalkers with a fixation against public figures.
The team's psychiatrists and psychologists then have the power to order treatment - including forcibly detaining suspects in secure psychiatric units.
Using these powers, the unit can legally detain people for an indefinite period without trial, criminal charges or even evidence of a crime being committed and with very limited rights of appeal.
Until now it has been the exclusive decision of doctors and mental health professionals to determine if someone should be forcibly detained.
But the new unit uses the police to identify suspects - increasing fears the line is being blurred between criminal investigation and doctors' clinical decisions.
It also raises questions about why thousands of mentally ill individuals have been allowed back into the community - including some who have attacked and killed members of the public - while VIPs are being given special protection.
Scotland Yard, which runs the shadowy unit, refuses to discuss how many suspects have been forcibly hospitalised by the team because of "patient confidentiality".
But at least one terror suspect - allegedly linked to the 7/7 bomb plot and a suicide bombing in Israel - has already been held under the Mental Health Act.
The suspect, who was subject of a control order and cannot be named for legal reasons, later absconded from the hospital and his whereabouts are unknown.
The existence of FTAC, part of the Metropolitan Police's specialist operations department which oversees anti-terrorist investigations and royal and diplomatic protection, slipped out in the fine print of a Home Office report.
The report makes it clear FTAC is a counter-terrorism unit and says: "We aim to make the UK a harder target for terrorists by maintaining effective and efficient protective security for public figures."
NHS documents obtained by The Mail on Sunday reveal the unit's role "concerns the identification and diversion into psychiatric care of mentally ill people fixated on the prominent".
The purpose of the centre is "to evaluate and manage the risk posed to prominent people by...those who engage in inappropriate or threatening communications or behaviours in the context of abnormally intense preoccupations, many of which arise from psychotic illness."
The Mental Health Act requires two doctors or psychiatrists to approve someone's forcible detention for treatment.
So-called 'sectioning' allows a patient to be held for up to six months before a further psychological assessment. Patients are then reviewed every year to determine if they can be released.
FTAC's senior forensic psychiatrist Dr David James, who has made a study of attacks on British and European politicians by people suffering pathological fixations, is qualified to order such a detention, as are other members of his team.
Also on the staff is Robert Halsey, a consultant forensic clinical psychologist who is a specialist in risk assessment.
The centre, which is based at a secret Central London location, has a staff of four police officers, two civilian researchers, a forensic psychiatrist, a forensic psychologist and a forensic community mental health nurse. Job descriptions make it clear they implement "interventions".
Human rights activists fear the team, whose existence has never been publicised, may be being used as a way to detain suspected terrorists without having to put evidence before the courts.
It also comes amid a continuing row over proposed mental health legislation which will make it easier to 'section' someone deemed a threat to the public.
Last night human rights group Liberty said the secret unit represented a new threat to civil liberties.
Policy director Gareth Crossman said: "There is a grave danger of this being used to deal with people where there is insufficient evidence for a criminal prosecution.
"This blurs the line between medical decisions and police actions. If you are going to allow doctors to take people's liberty away, they have to be independent. That credibility is undermined when the doctors are part of the same team as the police.
"This raises serious concerns. First that you have a unit that allows police investigation to lead directly to people being sectioned without any kind of criminal proceedings.
"Secondly, it is being done under the umbrella of anti-terrorism at a time when the Government is looking at ways to detain terrorists without putting them on trial."
FTAC was set up following an NHS research programme based at Chase Farm Hospital in Enfield, Middlesex, which looked at the threat to prominent figures from "fixated" people.
The team examined thousands of cases and liaised with the FBI, the US Secret Service, the Capitol Hill Police, which protects Congressmen and Senators, and the Swedish and Norwegian secret services.
The Swedish authorities gave the team access to files on the murder of foreign minister Anna Lindh who died from multiple stab wounds after being attacked by a stalker in a Stockholm store in 2003.
The research led to FTAC being set up with a £500,000-a-year budget from the Home Office and Department of Health. NHS documents say: "It is a prototype for future joint services."
No one from FTAC was willing to talk to The Mail on Sunday last week and few Whitehall officials seemed aware of the Centre's existence.
Shadow Health Secretary Andrew Lansley said: "The Government is trying to bring in a wider definition of mental disorder and is resisting exclusions which ensure that people cannot be treated as mentally disordered on the grounds of their cultural, political or religious beliefs.
"When you hear they are also setting up something like this police unit, it raises questions about quite what their intentions are.
"The use of mental health powers of detention should be confined to the purposes of treatment. But the Government wants to be able to detain someone who is mentally disordered even when the treatment would have no benefit.
"Combined with the idea that someone could be classed as mentally ill on the grounds of their religious beliefs, it is a very worrying scenario."
Last night a Home Office spokeswoman said there was "nothing sinister" about the unit or its role in counter-terrorism.
She said: "It comes under the remit of royal and diplomatic protection and is administered by that part of the Home Office.
"Psychiatric investigations are undertaken by psychiatric professionals only. Police officers do not assess people with mental health issues. The police provide the intelligence to ensure that psychiatrists have all the information available to make an assessment.
"This is done not only to protect public figures but also to protect the person fixated with the public figure."
Details of FTAC are revealed as the Government faces a new row over its terrorist control orders after three suspects, supposedly under house arrest, absconded last week.
The suspects, who it is feared may have fled the country, include the brothers of Anthony Garcia, who was jailed last month for his role in a plot to bomb London nightclubs and shopping centres.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-457934/Revealed-Blairs-secret-stalker-squad.html">http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/arti ... squad.html</a><!-- m -->

[EuroPenguin]

Don't get me started on UKIP :nonnon If they want to pull the UK out of the EU, completely bankrupt us and destroy our economy then fine, but god only knows who thought it was a good idea to let it become a party. What would they do if they were in power, they have no aim but to pull out of the eu, they will wreck the country.

Please remove them please!

[shadowninty]

Go ahead leave the EU it will mean more Foreign Direct Investment for Ireland with us being an English speaking pro-EU country. :-)
Although when the UK economy collapses it won't be good for the Republic's economy either