Georgia and South Ossetia at war

[Nana]

Only lies are heard from you Tim. You tell that South Osetians are criminals, so south Osetia was your gulag or what? Criminals living in almost independent state with thier families that is something. They wanted to be with Georgia? Almost all of them had Russian passports! that speaks volums. You call Georgia little giant of Democracy? Ha, only fact that your govrnment sold themselves and thier country does not make you more democratic country! Only insults and disanformation are comming from you! Your president is LIER and now he is surprised why he is not trusted by Russian government! Your attack kame at night, our response the next day, that means that attack was prepared while saakashvili was talking about peace.
You blame Russia in supporting South Osetia and Obchazia? if we havent they were all dead and you made it quite clear!

Sorry,

Can't you remember me, WHO KILLED CHILDREN IN BESLAN????

wasn's it Russia???

[TrekSPB]

[SiD]

Which Peace???

RUSSIA STARTED ALL THIS BY COMPROMITING GEORGIANS!!!

International low says that Russia has to keep the peace at this region. So Russia does it

Which Peace???

RUSSIA STARTED ALL THIS BY COMPROMITING GEORGIANS!!!

This is second Georgian-South Osetian war, and first was stoped by Russian peacekeepres that is history.
And these forcess who kept peace for more than 10 years were attaked by Georgians.
Children in Beslan were killed by TERRORISTS, sensless and INHUMAN act!!!! NOT BY RUSSIANS and many of our elite soldiers died protecting the children with thier own bodies!

[TrekSPB]

do you call killing civilian people and bombarding whole country is piecekeeping????

Georginan diversion groups do that to descredit Russia. As to civiliance so Georgia killed more than 2000 civilanes in first two days of war. Think about that

[Tim]

[b]Look at this people!!! It seems that they still live in the SOVIET UNION!!! Georgia is an independent country and will decide on itself who might be his friend and partner!!! You all are full of hatred of US and other free nations.

But now some issues regarding what kind of peacekeepers are in Georgian conflict zones. Your representative in UN, Mr. Churkin (or may be Churka :haha, he doesn't control what he says!) said recently that russia decided to defend his citizens and militaries, that's why "russia sent to Georgia additional military forces"!!! How do you like it? ADDITIONAL FORCES!!! We all know and russians are looping those video clips again and again, that these were regular army No. 58.

This apparently claims that so called "russian peacekeepers" (formaly they are CIS peacekeepers, but they have nothing with other CIS countries) are in reality the russian regular army and there main goal is to keep occupiede breakaway regions of Georgia under russian control.

Now this will end!!! I hope Georgia will leave CIS very soon. Besides Russia cleared that his is a conflict side and can not act as a meditor anymore!!! Georgia's ties with West and esspecially NATO will grow!!! We will immediately start developing more and more our army and Air Forces. Now it is clear that Russia is the most threaten and enemy for Georgia!!!

This is the consequences of Russia's stupid policy in Caucasus!!! We won again!!!

[TrekSPB]

Only lies are heard from you Tim. You tell that South Osetians are criminals, so south Osetia was your gulag or what? Criminals living in almost independent state with thier families that is something. They wanted to be with Georgia? Almost all of them had Russian passports! that speaks volums. You call Georgia little giant of Democracy? Ha, only fact that your govrnment sold themselves and thier country does not make you more democratic country! Only insults and disanformation are comming from you! Your president is LIER and now he is surprised why he is not trusted by Russian government! Your attack kame at night, our response the next day, that means that attack was prepared while saakashvili was talking about peace.
You blame Russia in supporting South Osetia and Obchazia? if we havent they were all dead and you made it quite clear!

Sorry,

Can't you remember me, WHO KILLED CHILDREN IN BESLAN????

wasn's it Russia???

It was terrorists who came from Georgia. Everybody knows they settle there in Kodori.

[alex]

Tim, we understood you is part of paid by Saakashvili propaganda.
You closing your eyes when hear facts from other side.
You fouling russians.
You are here not for truth.

Georgia in the danger because such people as you!

And don't talk about russian provocations. You provoke Russia now. And you think you can do it. You have no culture. Such people as you takes armor in the hands and goes to kill people.

I hope Georgia will clear herself from such people as you sometime in the future.

[nonas]

I WISH PEOPLE WHO THINK RUSSIA IS ACTING FARE, WERE ALL IN GEORGIA, IN SOUTH OSETIA, WHOCH IN FACT WAS NAMED AS SAMACHABLO FOR MANY MANY EARS AND ONLY AFTER SOVIET INVASION IN GEORGIA IN 1921 IS WAS NAMED AS SOUTH OSETIA.
PLEASE STOP THIS SOVIET BULLSHITING HERE!!!!!!!

[Askyourself]

Tim, we understood you is part of paid by Saakashvili propaganda.
You closing your eyes when hear facts from other side.
You fouling russians.
You are here not for truth.

Georgia in the danger because such people as you!

And don't talk about russian provocations. You provoke Russia now. And you think you can do it. You have no culture. Such people as you takes armor in the hands and goes to kill people.

I hope Georgia will clear herself from such people as you sometime in the future.

Good reply Alex!!!! Tim and a Company are "special" people on this forum. They are like kids who cut a head of a doll and say their mother they are not gilty. Now their Georgian "democratic" government put them here in EU Forum to say Mother Europe that they didn't cut life of many kids and infants in Ossettia Maternity Hospital

[nonas]

do you call killing civilian people and bombarding whole country is piecekeeping????

Georginan diversion groups do that to descredit Russia. As to civiliance so Georgia killed more than 2000 civilanes in first two days of war. Think about that

I AM PRETTY SURE YOU ARE GETTING THIS INFORMATION FROM ONLI GOUVERNMENT CONTROLLED RUSSIAN TELEVISIONS. YOU ARE SURRIAN AND YOU CAN NOT BE OBJECTIVE. BECAUSE ALL OF THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE A CAPABILITY THINING IN A NORMAL WAY.

FOR CENTURY KGB WAS CONTROLLING RUSSIANS MINDS, FASHIST AND IMPERIALISTIC IDEAS OF SO CALLED SOCIALISM.. WHEN ARE YOU GONNA GET REED OF THIS IMAGINATIONS?

[Yaropolk]

I’ve read the topics above and also studied some EU and American press. Very sad that people in your countries do not receive objective evidence of what is really going on in South Ossetia and how it started. A bit of chronology:

7 August
22:00 (Here and after - Moscow time)
Georgian leader Saakashvili informed of ceasing fire in South Ossetia (In July and early August there have been many shots from the Georgian side)

8 August
00:05
Georgian Army opens fire bringing tons of death upon the citizens of Tskhinvali. Georgian Military used MRLS (Multiple Rocket Launching System) “Grad”, Howitzers and Mortars. First victims – up to 280 civilians.

03:50 Georgian aircrafts start bombing Tskhinvali. First Georgian tanks appear on the outskirts of the city.

04:20 Georgian special forces opened fire against Russian peacekeepers. Meanwhile Russian officials made a request to UN Council with a hope of stopping Georgia from killing civilians (lets not forget that most of them are Russians)

09:00 – 13:00
Death toll in Tskhinvali has reached up to aprox. 1000 civils. There is proof how Georgian tanks crushed some people with tracks; threw grenades in basements where people (with children!!!) saved themselves from bombs; snipers who shot running people (by the way has anybody thought why all those people ran towards the Russian border??? Huh? Any thoughts? Because they knew that there they would be saved!!!) People in North Ossetia received SMS from their relatives in Tskhinvali that they are being slaughtered and they cried for help. The Russian government still tries to stop this crisis using diplomacy without any opening fire, but neither the UN nor NATO wanted to do anything!

15:14
When people in their shelters started loosing hope, when the remains of south Ossetian army still holding a small part of Tskhinvali without any chance of survival, when everybody thought that Russia again will only keep on telling words and turn back to it’s citizens like it usually did for the past two decades –an element of the 58th Russian Federation Army enters the territory of South Ossetia with an order to defend the civilians and the peacekeepers! (Nothing new! Remember how Israel does when something happens with its citizens?!)

17:20
Georgian troops execute 10 wounded Russian peacekeepers.

That’s only the first day. I do not want to comment it, it’s up to you to draw a conclusion. ;(

[SiD]

Now this will end!!! I hope Georgia will leave CIS very soon. Besides Russia cleared that his is a conflict side and can not act as a meditor anymore!!! Georgia's ties with West and esspecially NATO will grow!!! We will immediately start developing more and more our army and Air Forces. Now it is clear that Russia is the most threaten and enemy for Georgia!!!

This is the consequences of Russia's stupid policy in Caucasus!!! We won again!!!

It is all about that isnt it? what a better time to cry for help to U.S. and E.U.? Let us join NATO, we are treatend by monster called Russia save us please!!! And western publik opinion is your price the thing you wanted. And every man, women or child killed in this war is little Georgian victory no matter how they died or who startet it. And you call us monsters?!
Tell to everyone is that so important to be american pawn so you can sacrifice your own people and kill tousands of inocents?!

[Tim]

Tim, we understood you is part of paid by Saakashvili propaganda.
You closing your eyes when hear facts from other side.
You fouling russians.
You are here not for truth.

Georgia in the danger because such people as you!

And don't talk about russian provocations. You provoke Russia now. And you think you can do it. You have no culture. Such people as you takes armor in the hands and goes to kill people.

I hope Georgia will clear herself from such people as you sometime in the future.

Dear Alex,
I am free businessman and isn't a member of any political party. And I am ordinary Georgian patriot, orthodox and man. You will hardly believe, but I am strong opposition of Saakashvili. But this regards only our internal issues. When threten came for our country as a whole, all georgians have united, whether position or opposition, to defend our country. We will all lay down dead here but will not allow you russians invade us any more!

And one thing, we will also never, NEVER, agree to loose even an inch of our land where our ancsestors lived and died! We can not betray their soles! So hands off from Georgian lands! It's enough what we lost for your reason!

Some words about ossetians. I never said they are bandits. I said that Kokoev's armed separatists and their russian supporters (look at previous pages to find who they are) are criminals. But they are not so much. Ordinary ossetian people are much more, living all over the Georgia. I also have some friends and relatives. We live in peace with them. May be there is some tension now here between us, but we understand the situation well. The same regards Abkhazs. The danger comes from armed separatists.

And finally, people like me are dangerous for you. You are right. But almost all Geogians thinks the same. So all Geogia is dangerous for! Except Igor Giorgadze, you are preparing to import here instead of Saakashvili. Very stupid plan!

[SiD]

[quote="nonas"]I AM PRETTY SURE YOU ARE GETTING THIS INFORMATION FROM ONLI GOUVERNMENT CONTROLLED RUSSIAN TELEVISIONS. YOU ARE SURRIAN AND YOU CAN NOT BE OBJECTIVE. BECAUSE ALL OF THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE A CAPABILITY THINING IN A NORMAL WAY.

FOR CENTURY KGB WAS CONTROLLING RUSSIANS MINDS, FASHIST AND IMPERIALISTIC IDEAS OF SO CALLED SOCIALISM.. WHEN ARE YOU GONNA GET REED OF THIS IMAGINATIONS?
[quote="TrekSPB"][quote="nonas"]

Were do you live? On mars? Russia is bad by default? We have chosen our way, it is DEMOCRACY. We seek no confrontation, we have ENOUGH LAND look at the map!!! we have more territory that whole Europe! We want cooperation and peacefull coexistance. But we want cooperation as equals. We want others to respect our national interests.

[nonas]

and why don't you care about our own country and democracy in Russia. we can easily take care of ourselves. nobody asked you to come and resolve our internal problems.

we were trying to exchange russian peacekeepers and bring some international organisations to south osetia instead of these provocators. that made russian gouvernment mad!
why? may I ask?

[Tim]

Yaropolk,
I said many times we are very much sorry for civilian victims in this conflict from all sides: russian, ossetian and georgian.

But I am surprised that in all of my posts I am also trying to explain you responsibility of russian authorities, but your blind and deaf for that. Otherwise, you merely invaded eastern part of Georgia, in Pankisi Gorge, blaming us in support of Chechen separatists. Yes, there were some runaways of chechen boeviks from russian side to georgian, but support - real stupid things. And russia that time asked to allow their troops to come to our territory. And this was after Abkhazian conflict! What a nonsense!

[SiD]

and why don't you care about our own country and democracy in Russia. we can easily take care of ourselves. nobody asked you to come and resolve our internal problems.

we were trying to exchange russian peacekeepers and bring some international organisations to south osetia instead of these provocators. that made russian gouvernment mad!
why? may I ask?
and why don't you care about our own country and democracy in Russia. we can easily take care of ourselves. nobody asked you to come and resolve our internal problems.

we were trying to exchange russian peacekeepers and bring some international organisations to south osetia instead of these provocators. that made russian gouvernment mad!
why? may I ask?

To bring the wery same people who "protected" Kosovo?! Thank you wery mutch! The only reason South Osetians were not invaded earlier were our peacekeepres.

[nonas]

you know what? everybody in Georgia knew what would happen if the war starts. we knew russian so called ''peacekeepers'' were there and that they would be an excuse to bring a regular army here... we did not want that war, and why on earth should we start it if not russian provocations....
I am sure somebody in Russian planned this long before, haveing their agents here, possibly even in our gouvernment and army. and they ordered to shoot back after weeks of everyday provocations in south osetia.
remember, every day osetian separatists were shooting towards georgian villages, and Russian so called peacekeepers did not do anything to stop them!
This is fact! Georgia did not need this war, because everybody knew, Russia would be very much involved and will start a widespread operation against georgia...
tem people dead just in poti, in a Black See Port, far away from osetia! civilian people! much more in osetia by Russian airforce bombs! gori is full of injured soldires. whole city is in ruins.
so tell me now....did Georgia need this war and why woult Georgians start it?

[nonas]

To bring the wery same people who "protected" Kosovo?! Thank you wery mutch! The only reason South Osetians were not invaded earlier were our peacekeepres.

what I am saying is, this anyway was nor Russia's bussines. we could solve our problems by ourselves. and we did not need provocators here fir that!

[SiD]

[Tim]

SiD,
I am really tired of this war of blames here.

After carefull study of russia's map, what is the best solution for Georgian-Russian conflict in my opinion:

1. Immediately sign of cease fire agreement (already signed an hour ago).
2. Russia withdraws its troops all over the Georgia (including so called peacekeepers).
3. Neutral forces will take place of russian troops.
4. Immediate disarmoment should be started in all conflict zones.
5. Georgian Army should return to their bases.
6. Russia should declare that all the citizens which do not like to take citizenship and live in Georgia should return to Russia.
7. Georgia should wholy support russian citizens emigration.
8. Georgia should immediately take care of those who decided to stay living in Georgia.
9. Georgia and Russia signs frame agreement of cooperation and partnership.

You can change queue as you like.

If this would happen, Georgia will be soon become the strongest neighbour, partner and friend of Russia. We would become brothers again and so on.

Though I know that this is utopia! Russia has absolutely different aims.

[Yaropolk]

Tim,
You are making me also surprised. Ok let us turn to your logic and just imagine the next situation: In Russia for example there is a small territory where mainly live Georgians (about one hundred thousand of them) these Georgians want to separate from Russia and join Georgia instead the Russian government bombs the cities uses “Grad” and moves in tanks, as a result in the first 3-5 hours the death toll will be around 2000 victims. And now pay attention! A question for you – When your fellow citizens get slaughtered, bombed, tortured will you sit and do nothing? Will you blame your own government for the inroad if this leads to saving life and souls of your citizens?

[nonas]

last news:

abkhazian and russian peacekeepers invaded in zugdidi, and are now controlling most of the police buildings there......

they do not have a right!!! and this is crime which they are gonna pay for,after this is finnished!

[Lor]

Hey i address this to Tim and all the other Georgians. Don't worry!! The whole world knows the truth, even if there are people( most of them brainwashed Russians or people there aren't very bright to see beyond the appearances) that think that Russians are humanitarian. I will tell you how things are seen from the outside:

RUSSIA, so called the "peacekeepers". Man, just this association makes me laugh! The words are antonyms This imperialistic country has a genius way of controlling people; not by guns or force, but by PROPAGANDA which is more dangerous than nuclear bombs!! After USSR collapsed Russia keeps influencing ALL the EX soviet republics. How? Well it's obvious. All the newly formed republic, have, within their borders a region that never belonged to them originally and that is strongly populated by Russian citizens. For example Moldova has Transnistria, Ukraine has Crimea, Georgia Ossetia, and so on. These small regions will always support Russia since they're used as puppets for Russia's interests. When one republic is threatening to join the West and to bring NATO at their borders, for the first time in Caucas, that's when the "peacekeepers" panic!

GEORGIA is a small country which is known for their patriotism. During centuries they've been under Russian influence. They've been taken advantage of in all ways possible(economical, cultural, ideological..) and always had problems with the separatists that were instigated constantly by Russians. Tired of being used/abused, Georgia decided to join a bigger force, with which Russia won't mess around. They REALLY aspire to join EU and NATO.


THE CONFLICT started a looooong time ago, since Ossatians were ALWAYS instigated by Russians to request independence.So, before the Olympics(Bravo Mr Putin.You chose a good day... when the whole world is distracted by the Olympics!I give you credit for that!! Genius!) the Ossatians, strongly motivated by Russia( with guns and more brainwashing, and i'm sure is Russia since they had guns. And guns don't grow on trees) started to rebel against Georgian civilians in neighboring villages, acting a bit like terrorists/vandals. To restore the order, the Georgian Government sent troops in the separatist region. Since the Ossetians won't cease shooting, the Georgian troops started to shoot back. That's when 1000 or so Osettians got killed. This was the EXACT excuse that Russia was WAITING for in order to send their "peacekeepers" with 300 tanks and lots of guns, soldiers, planes.( This is the Russian notion of "peace") Only this fact alone VIOLATES the international law!!! Invading a country's territory with military forces, while these country's borders are internationally recognized. Anyways... the shooting starts, thousands of Georgian civilians get killed since the Russians decided to start bombarding cities like Poti or Gori, both situated OUTSIDE the conflict area. So dear Russians, what do you call this???? LOve and peace? Humanitarian act? How do you call these bombardments? I call them war crime!!And i call you murderers! How are these murders any different than the ones in Ossetia that Georgians commited ? Anyway...These acts, force the Georgian troops to leave Ossatia and to surprise the whole world, RUSSIANS STILL FIGHT.Why didn't they stop after that? Doesn't it become obvious that the REAL Russian cause is NOT humanitarian???

DILLEMAS
1) Why, a country that aspires to enter NATO and is monitored by it, would one day decide to start shooting people??? The answer is OBVIOUS!!! They were provoked!!
2)Why the Russians didn't bother killing 200,000 people in Chechnya but they got profoundly touched by the fact that in a neighboring country 1000 people were killed?? Again... OBVIOUS
3)Russia always pays back. This time it wants to get back to : EU&NATO for Kosovo.To prove them wrong(which i admit... EU and NATO were WRONG in Kosovo) and to Georgia for wanting to be western and exit the Russian sphere of influence, for bringing West right at their borders. Plus it would be nice to have 100% control over the gas and petrol pipes that transit Georgia. This way EU will depend only on them.
3)EU and NATO are being COWARDS.Why? Because they're trying to avoid a 3rd World War and they depend on Russia(gas and petrol).
4)Why there are 100,000 Ossetians living peacefully in Georgia? They have never been attacked nor genocide's victims? WHY???

Personal Experience

I come from a country whose neighbor (that shares the same national identity) was damaged by Russian ideology and propaganda. What is happening now in Georgia happened before. Did anybody hear about Transnistria conflict right when Moldova wanted to join Romania? I guess Russians don't !They don't learn that in schools.If Russia can foul their citizens with dirty propaganda, claiming to be kind and humanitarian, they can't foul the world, that already knows their dirty strategies. They've done it before!!

I had the chance to live in a Russian city. It is sick how the media is filtered in here! And how ignorant Russians are towards other nations! They always criticize Americans. Tell you what!! They're the same! No difference Iraq-Georgia.What's the difference?

[Tim]

Yaropolk.

If georgians living in russia (currently they are 500,000 only in Moscow and many of them have 2 citizenship) one day decide to move to live at one location and then separate from russia, and if russia offer them full-scale autonomy, but instead of this those georgians take arms and fight against russian government, make terrorist action in moscow (like ones in Gori), put mines in a fields to injur other civilians, bomb Moscows other regions, kidnap russians and do other crimes, you will not ask us anything but anihilate those 500,000 georgians from Moscow. That's what you did with chechens.

From our side I will tell, we will not support them. Rather we will stop them and we know how to do it. That's why Georgians never do such crime in any country: Russia, Turkey, Iran or other countries were their population is significant.