Georgia and South Ossetia at war

[SiD]

Is it possible that in the next following years South Ossetia is recognized by other countries than Russia? I am not speaking about Cuba or other Russia's allies, I'm talking about European states. What if tomorrow Russia will hand in an ultimatum making Europeans recognize S. Ossetia in order to maintain gas supplying.

That wont happen for sure. It could be good if european countrys will recognize S Osetia and Abkchazia but no one would want to force them to do that.

[Hakan G]

Is it possible that in the next following years South Ossetia is recognized by other countries than Russia? I am not speaking about Cuba or other Russia's allies, I'm talking about European states. What if tomorrow Russia will hand in an ultimatum making Europeans recognize S. Ossetia in order to maintain gas supplying.

That wont happen for sure. It could be good if european countrys will recognize S Osetia and Abkchazia but no one would want to force them to do that.

Why then did Russia recognise the independence of S.Ossetia? I mean what it is the point in all this, what are its interests or benefits as long as it does not care if other states will do the same thing?
I tink Russia should have some ways to influence other stes, otherwise the whole situation is odd.

[SiD]

Why then did Russia recognise the independence of S.Ossetia? I mean what it is the point in all this, what are its interests or benefits as long as it does not care if other states will do the same thing?
I tink Russia should have some ways to influence other stes, otherwise the whole situation is odd.

To recognize some state or not to regognize it is choice of every country that is made by themselves. Why Kosovo was recognized by some countrys?
And if Russia recognizes S Osetia as independent it means Russia can have international relationship with this country. For example treaty of mutual protection. I doubt anyone who dont recognizes S Osetia will ignore such treaty.

[Yalta1945]

And if Russia recognizes S Osetia as independent it means Russia can have international relationship with this country. For example treaty of mutual protection. I doubt anyone who dont recognizes S Osetia will ignore such treaty.

I have no doubt they will ignore it de jure. And if they ignore it de jure, it will have considerable impact on the matters de facto.

[russian999]

All anti-russian talks is just empty talks. For georgians better to look at Ukraine and you will understand what kind of future you will have. Such a mess - president fired judge!!!! It is totally undemocratic! The mess will be continue there for as long, as they will play democracy.
And Russia will watch carefully - if Ukraine will turn militaristic, same as Georgia did, we will do something about Ukraine. If such messy politicaly country going to be agressive - it is dangerous.

[Yalta1945]

And if Russia recognizes S Osetia as independent it means Russia can have international relationship with this country. For example treaty of mutual protection. I doubt anyone who dont recognizes S Osetia will ignore such treaty.

I have no doubt they will ignore it de jure. And if they ignore it de jure, it will have considerable impact on the matters de facto.

Sorry, a mistake: S.Ossetia will be ignored as a state de jure, but treaties Russia signs with it will be evaluated correspondingly.

[Yalta1945]

Saakashvili saved Georgia from coup, former Putin aide says
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://euobserver.com/24/26921">http://euobserver.com/24/26921</a><!-- m -->

Moscow Began Preparing for Georgian War Four Years Ago, Illarionov Says (by Paul Goble)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/caucasus_crisis/index/cc_articles/goble/goble_2008/goble_1008/goble_1001_fight.html">http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/ca ... fight.html</a><!-- m -->

Illarionov Commenter Proves Russia started the Georgia Conflict
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/illarionov-commenter-proves-russia-started-the-georgia-conflict/">http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2008/ ... -conflict/</a><!-- m -->

Illarionov: Thirteen Conclusions about the War
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2008/08/illarionov_thirteen_conclusion.htm">http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2008/08/ ... lusion.htm</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://djdrive.livejournal.com/99584.html">http://djdrive.livejournal.com/99584.html</a><!-- m --> (Russian)

А. Илларионов: «Россия сама подготовила и начала войну против Грузии»
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2008/09/30/61325.shtml">http://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/conten ... 1325.shtml</a><!-- m -->

[SiD]

Saakashvili saved Georgia from coup, former Putin aide says
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://euobserver.com/24/26921">http://euobserver.com/24/26921</a><!-- m -->

Moscow Began Preparing for Georgian War Four Years Ago, Illarionov Says (by Paul Goble)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/caucasus_crisis/index/cc_articles/goble/goble_2008/goble_1008/goble_1001_fight.html">http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/ca ... fight.html</a><!-- m -->

Illarionov Commenter Proves Russia started the Georgia Conflict
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/illarionov-commenter-proves-russia-started-the-georgia-conflict/">http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2008/ ... -conflict/</a><!-- m -->

Illarionov: Thirteen Conclusions about the War
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2008/08/illarionov_thirteen_conclusion.htm">http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2008/08/ ... lusion.htm</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://djdrive.livejournal.com/99584.html">http://djdrive.livejournal.com/99584.html</a><!-- m --> (Russian)

А. Илларионов: «Россия сама подготовила и начала войну против Грузии»
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2008/09/30/61325.shtml">http://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/conten ... 1325.shtml</a><!-- m -->

FORMER ECONOMIC adviser knows everything .
By the way following your link about his 13 conclusions i found this

The war confirmed once more the validity of the most important principles of conduct of morally conscious Russian citizens in relation to the present regime: do not believe, do not fear, do not beg, and do not cooperate.

This is 13th conclusion. I hope you know that this is unformal rules of life in prison. I hope he learned it from Soldginizin not from his friends . Parhaps he tried to show that Russia is like a prison or something (great patriot he is) but missed part were he is free like a bird to tell nonsense and leave whanever he wishes.

[Yalta1945]

Saakashvili saved Georgia from coup, former Putin aide says
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://euobserver.com/24/26921">http://euobserver.com/24/26921</a><!-- m -->

Moscow Began Preparing for Georgian War Four Years Ago, Illarionov Says (by Paul Goble)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/caucasus_crisis/index/cc_articles/goble/goble_2008/goble_1008/goble_1001_fight.html">http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/ca ... fight.html</a><!-- m -->

Illarionov Commenter Proves Russia started the Georgia Conflict
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/illarionov-commenter-proves-russia-started-the-georgia-conflict/">http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2008/ ... -conflict/</a><!-- m -->

Illarionov: Thirteen Conclusions about the War
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2008/08/illarionov_thirteen_conclusion.htm">http://www.robertamsterdam.com/2008/08/ ... lusion.htm</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://djdrive.livejournal.com/99584.html">http://djdrive.livejournal.com/99584.html</a><!-- m --> (Russian)

А. Илларионов: «Россия сама подготовила и начала войну против Грузии»
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/content/2008/09/30/61325.shtml">http://www.kavkazcenter.com/russ/conten ... 1325.shtml</a><!-- m -->

The war confirmed once more the validity of the most important principles of conduct of morally conscious Russian citizens in relation to the present regime: do not believe, do not fear, do not beg, and do not cooperate.

This is 13th conclusion. I hope you know that this is unformal rules of life in prison. I hope he learned it from Soldginizin not from his friends . Parhaps he tried to show that Russia is like a prison or something (great patriot he is) but missed part were he is free like a bird to tell nonsense and leave whanever he wishes.

You just hope that all opposition leaves Russia. Then they will be “Russophobes” instead of being “Western-bought opposition”. Nothing new. Since 1917 you were killing millions of your compatriots. Later you called your opposition “People’s enemies”. Some of my ancestors were real Russians – not supporters of semi-fascism like you. Their fathers and grandfathers fought many battles for Russia. Stalinists wanted to send them to Siberia but they didn’t succeed because even among those supposed to conduct such actions there were people whose consciousness started awakening. :-P
It’s becoming funny to read how you repeat your nonsense mantras despite any arguments that others publish. Your advocating for Russia never being guilty of anything looks like this:

„Tell us, Vladik, how it all happened”.
“Well, I was sitting down peacefully on my chair reading my paper when Misha suddenly got angry, he rushed towards me, but he tipped over my foot and fell right on the knife he held in his hand… And then he repeated it twenty times.“

[SiD]

You just hope that all opposition leaves Russia. Then they will be “Russophobes” instead of being “Western-bought opposition”. Nothing new. Since 1917 you were killing millions of your compatriots. Later you called your opposition “People’s enemies”. Some of my ancestors were real Russians – not supporters of semi-fascism like you. Their fathers and grandfathers fought many battles for Russia. Stalinists wanted to send them to Siberia but they didn’t succeed because even among those supposed to conduct such actions there were people whose consciousness started awakening.
It’s becoming funny to read how you repeat your nonsense mantras despite any arguments that others publish. Your advocating for Russia never being guilty of anything looks like this:

„Tell us, Vladik, how it all happened”.
“Well, I was sitting down peacefully on my chair reading my paper when Misha suddenly got angry, he rushed towards me, but he tipped over my foot and fell right on the knife he held in his hand… And then he repeated it twenty times.“

OOh nothing new from 1917 ? What a mess in your head. And i can believe that some of your ancestors were russians (why not?) but key word WERE. You arent deffinatly. And you see it is my choice what arguments to accept. There is not 2 opinions: yours and incorrect one. So you better see what is your Illarionov speaking and why. And have i told that Russia isnt guilty in anything? First of all i am livimg in present not in the past. Your wild imagination about 17 or gulag or wars or empires is not arguments. You cant see difference betwenn USSR and todays Russia. While country and whole world changed, some people are exploiting past to give some wight to thier accusations.

[Yalta1945]

You just hope that all opposition leaves Russia. Then they will be “Russophobes” instead of being “Western-bought opposition”. Nothing new. Since 1917 you were killing millions of your compatriots. Later you called your opposition “People’s enemies”. Some of my ancestors were real Russians – not supporters of semi-fascism like you. Their fathers and grandfathers fought many battles for Russia. Stalinists wanted to send them to Siberia but they didn’t succeed because even among those supposed to conduct such actions there were people whose consciousness started awakening.
It’s becoming funny to read how you repeat your nonsense mantras despite any arguments that others publish. Your advocating for Russia never being guilty of anything looks like this:

„Tell us, Vladik, how it all happened”.
“Well, I was sitting down peacefully on my chair reading my paper when Misha suddenly got angry, he rushed towards me, but he tipped over my foot and fell right on the knife he held in his hand… And then he repeated it twenty times.“

And i can believe that some of your ancestors were russians (why not?) but key word WERE.

If you're not as stupid as a log, then your English is certainly below the level that allows you to see the meaning. "Were" meant "died"; and how do you suppose one should write in English about the past? Must I have written "My ancestors fight..." :lol: Ghosts keep fighting... :haha Maybe :| It sounds good: I'll try to imagine that my ancestors are still fighting

You cant see difference betwenn USSR and todays Russia. While country and whole world changed, some people are exploiting past to give some wight to thier accusations.

Some people analyze - critically and openly.

[SiD]

If you're not as stupid as a log, then your English is certainly below the level that allows you to see the meaning. "Were" meant "died"; and how do you suppose one should write in English about the past? Must I have written "My ancestors fight..." Ghosts keep fighting... Maybe It sounds good: I'll try to imagine that my ancestors are still fighting

Have i asked you about your heritage? Dont remember such thing. Dont know why you desided to mention it, but it doesnt mean anything. becouse it is PAST, i dont know your ancestors so i can believe they were russians and patriots and good people but they WERE, there is just you now.Parhaps you want to call YOURSELF real Russian? . So i pointed you that it doesnt mean anything at least for me in this descussion. So you better ask for clarification before call anyone stupid as log, it is polite at least.

Some people analyze - critically and openly.

And you count yourself among those people?

[Steven]

Guys, let's not quarrel because our opinions are not similar. This is the point, we live in different countries and have different attitudes towards things, but respecting each other is foremost.

[Yalta1945]

You cant see difference betwenn USSR and todays Russia. While country and whole world changed, some people are exploiting past to give some wight to thier accusations.

Evil is evil, no matter how old it is. Russia inherited some evil from the past. The heritage of Bolshevism is alive. Evil of the present uses the same formula as Bolsheviks used – “the end justifies means”.
The declared ultimate end of communists was the creation of the world wide communism. Although the West referred to communism as some practice, communists in the USSR did not call their system communism – they called it socialism. Their communism was utopia. In the name of this utopia, they used the most horrible practice which they justified as necessary means for their utopian goal. Their ideology neglected the present, it rejected the past, and it was promising some paradise on the Earth in the far future.
The ideology of communism was the grand deception itself. In order to make it look more plausible, communists had always to fill in the gaps between their theory and real life by various lies. The system required a lot of lies, and it stimulated recruitment of growing number of liars into the administrative/executive ranks.
The Soviet system provided for the creation of the special ruling liars elite. They were creating partial goals as supposed necessary steps on the way to the declared ultimate end, but these partial goals were subject to the compromise between the official theory and the needs that those in power saw in reality.
By witnessing so many lies around, the liars themselves would come to realize that the declared ultimate goal had been fake/unrealistic, and their actual goals had to be different. To achieve their real goals, they used the same formula - “the end justifies means”.
The selection rules for those to be opted for promotion within the ruling liars’ network had mostly to ensure on various hierarchical levels the strict control over the behavioural adaptation of persons from the special nomenclatura lists and their compliance with multi-hypocritical system. The special patterns of corruptive behaviour and mentality were promoted by the system.
It became a commonplace in the USSR that people’s words, deeds, and thoughts were all contradicting each other. Of course, the system would have not survived so many years without any norms of ethics or morality, but these were permanently in conflict with reality. Some spheres of life might have been less regulated but people, in general, were never free from arbitrary rule. The rule of law was an alien conception; the written law, including the Soviet constitution, never was the real law.
The communist policy aimed at creating quite homogenous society but an experiment with creating the new species of homo sovieticus failed. Yet the process of sovietisation did take place and it left some remarkable consequences for the present.
In the soviet period, within the society of aborted masses of homo sovieticus there was the special breed of strong adherents of the rule that “the end justifies means”. This type of humans could be called homo putinicus. It has spread out fast in Russia in the recent years. Homo putinicus claim they are homo rutenicus. However we should see a distinction between them.
The massive internalization of the rule that “the end justify means” during the Soviet and post-Soviet period in Russia is the evil that cannot evaporate in a moment. Homo putinicus will not disappear quickly.
When I hear claims that Russia is “different” it reminds me an alcoholic who swears he is a new man. You may trust him – until his next drink. It is hard for alcoholic to change. Declaration of change is not a change yet.

[russian999]

Evil is evil, no matter how old it is. Russia inherited some evil from the past. The heritage of Bolshevism is alive. Evil of the present uses the same formula as Bolsheviks used – “the end justifies means”.
The declared ultimate end of communists was the creation of the world wide communism. Although the West referred to communism as some practice, communists in the USSR did not call their system communism – they called it socialism. Their communism was utopia. In the name of this utopia, they used the most horrible practice which they justified as necessary means for their utopian goal. Their ideology neglected the present, it rejected the past, and it was promising some paradise on the Earth in the far future.
The ideology of communism was the grand deception itself. In order to make it look more plausible, communists had always to fill in the gaps between their theory and real life by various lies. The system required a lot of lies, and it stimulated recruitment of growing number of liars into the administrative/executive ranks.
The Soviet system provided for the creation of the special ruling liars elite. They were creating partial goals as supposed necessary steps on the way to the declared ultimate end, but these partial goals were subject to the compromise between the official theory and the needs that those in power saw in reality.
By witnessing so many lies around, the liars themselves would come to realize that the declared ultimate goal had been fake/unrealistic, and their actual goals had to be different. To achieve their real goals, they used the same formula - “the end justifies means”.
The selection rules for those to be opted for promotion within the ruling liars’ network had mostly to ensure on various hierarchical levels the strict control over the behavioural adaptation of persons from the special nomenclatura lists and their compliance with multi-hypocritical system. The special patterns of corruptive behaviour and mentality were promoted by the system.
It became a commonplace in the USSR that people’s words, deeds, and thoughts were all contradicting each other. Of course, the system would have not survived so many years without any norms of ethics or morality, but these were permanently in conflict with reality. Some spheres of life might have been less regulated but people, in general, were never free from arbitrary rule. The rule of law was an alien conception; the written law, including the Soviet constitution, never was the real law.
The communist policy aimed at creating quite homogenous society but an experiment with creating the new species of homo sovieticus failed. Yet the process of sovietisation did take place and it left some remarkable consequences for the present.
In the soviet period, within the society of aborted masses of homo sovieticus there was the special breed of strong adherents of the rule that “the end justifies means”. This type of humans could be called homo putinicus. It has spread out fast in Russia in the recent years. Homo putinicus claim they are homo rutenicus. However we should see a distinction between them.
The massive internalization of the rule that “the end justify means” during the Soviet and post-Soviet period in Russia is the evil that cannot evaporate in a moment. Homo putinicus will not disappear quickly.
When I hear claims that Russia is “different” it reminds me an alcoholic who swears he is a new man. You may trust him – until his next drink. It is hard for alcoholic to change. Declaration of change is not a change yet.

That is nice piece of accusation. But it is too long. I will tell you very short story about real nature of baltics,russians and georgians. You know, that in difficult situation peoples real character is showing up. So, in Red Army, in soviet time, there was difficult atmosphera allways. And soldiers was able to see a real nature of baltics,russians and georgians. And russians real nature - "Ivan-fool", georgians - "cunning ass" and baltics - "traitors". Now you can see, that all this nations are going there way. Georgians are trying to get money and attention by cheating, russians just stupidly crashed georgians and have some conseqences but baltics looking for opportunity to initiate fight beetwen Europe and Russia and just step aside,like a provocator.

[SiD]

Evil is evil, no matter how old it is. Russia inherited some evil from the past. The heritage of Bolshevism is alive. Evil of the present uses the same formula as Bolsheviks used – “the end justifies means”.
The declared ultimate end of communists was the creation of the world wide communism. Although the West referred to communism as some practice, communists in the USSR did not call their system communism – they called it socialism. Their communism was utopia. In the name of this utopia, they used the most horrible practice which they justified as necessary means for their utopian goal. Their ideology neglected the present, it rejected the past, and it was promising some paradise on the Earth in the far future.
The ideology of communism was the grand deception itself. In order to make it look more plausible, communists had always to fill in the gaps between their theory and real life by various lies. The system required a lot of lies, and it stimulated recruitment of growing number of liars into the administrative/executive ranks.
The Soviet system provided for the creation of the special ruling liars elite. They were creating partial goals as supposed necessary steps on the way to the declared ultimate end, but these partial goals were subject to the compromise between the official theory and the needs that those in power saw in reality.
By witnessing so many lies around, the liars themselves would come to realize that the declared ultimate goal had been fake/unrealistic, and their actual goals had to be different. To achieve their real goals, they used the same formula - “the end justifies means”.
The selection rules for those to be opted for promotion within the ruling liars’ network had mostly to ensure on various hierarchical levels the strict control over the behavioural adaptation of persons from the special nomenclatura lists and their compliance with multi-hypocritical system. The special patterns of corruptive behaviour and mentality were promoted by the system.
It became a commonplace in the USSR that people’s words, deeds, and thoughts were all contradicting each other. Of course, the system would have not survived so many years without any norms of ethics or morality, but these were permanently in conflict with reality. Some spheres of life might have been less regulated but people, in general, were never free from arbitrary rule. The rule of law was an alien conception; the written law, including the Soviet constitution, never was the real law.
The communist policy aimed at creating quite homogenous society but an experiment with creating the new species of homo sovieticus failed. Yet the process of sovietisation did take place and it left some remarkable consequences for the present.
In the soviet period, within the society of aborted masses of homo sovieticus there was the special breed of strong adherents of the rule that “the end justifies means”. This type of humans could be called homo putinicus. It has spread out fast in Russia in the recent years. Homo putinicus claim they are homo rutenicus. However we should see a distinction between them.
The massive internalization of the rule that “the end justify means” during the Soviet and post-Soviet period in Russia is the evil that cannot evaporate in a moment. Homo putinicus will not disappear quickly.
When I hear claims that Russia is “different” it reminds me an alcoholic who swears he is a new man. You may trust him – until his next drink. It is hard for alcoholic to change. Declaration of change is not a change yet.

you know you should try to be more laconic.
realy amusing to read your critics about lies. let me remind you (not first and it seems that not last time) about mythic Sadam WMD.
“the end justify means” you do not like this statment? How than can you justify NATO attack on Serbia? I realy want to hear.
And i wonder who is inventing this homo something?
You know it is not matter of discussion about Russia being different. It is just fact. Whanever you accept it or not.

[Yalta1945]

So, in Red Army, in soviet time, there was difficult atmosphera allways. And soldiers was able to see a real nature of baltics,russians and georgians. And russians real nature - "Ivan-fool", georgians - "cunning ass" and baltics - "traitors".

Pitty for your bitter personal experience. If it was so for you, the conclusion is quite solipsistic anyway.

let me remind you (not first and it seems that not last time) about mythic Sadam WMD.
“the end justify means” you do not like this statment?

Yes, indeed.

How than can you justify NATO attack on Serbia? I realy want to hear.

The strikes were to stop Milosevic's attrocities after Russia had done nothing good about it.

And i wonder who is inventing this homo something?

The Soviets themselves invented Homo Sovieticus. As for Homo Putinicus, it has the similar sense for using it as e.g. "Putinism", "Putinization".

You know it is not matter of discussion about Russia being different. It is just fact. Whanever you accept it or not.

Different from/in what? I responded to this:

You cant see difference betwenn USSR and todays Russia. While country and whole world changed, some people are exploiting past to give some wight to thier accusations.

Is it more different or more similar?
Well, actually my previous post was just auxiliary to the view that Russia seems to be rather similar to the USSR (more similar than different).
It was also secondarily to the previous posts revealing the sheer aggressiveness of Russia to Georgia.

[Faw_Peter]

Well, in as far as I heard from other people, during the USSR times, people were much happier than today in Russia, but what is really important is that everybody "were doing something", I mean everybody had a job. Moreover, the population could afford many things by the salaries they earned at those times.

[SiD]

Yes, indeed.

So we can agree that lies are part of politics. Ewerywere. In Russia, in USSR , in US, in EU anywere.

The strikes were to stop Milosevic's attrocities after Russia had done nothing good about it.

So we have : proclaimed ends: stop Milosevic attrocities. means: strikes on Serbia and (in fact) taking part of Serbia away from country.
So ends justify the means? What your ethics is telling you, uh?

The Soviets themselves invented Homo Sovieticus. As for Homo Putinicus, it has the similar sense for using it as e.g. "Putinism", "Putinization".

You see it was term Soviet man but it isnt any Putin man. Putin is prime minister not some way of life or ideology. So it has no sense to call someone homo putenicus. Besides you know that attempt to create nationality "Soviet man" has failed.

Is it more different or more similar?
Well, actually my previous post was just auxiliary to the view that Russia seems to be rather similar to the USSR (more similar than different).
It was also secondarily to the previous posts revealing the sheer aggressiveness of Russia to Georgia.

You heard about airon certain? I hope you did. So if there is none now it is HUGE difference. I wont mention planned economy. If we try to compare with earlier USSR you can be sure that if it was like than in Russia now i wont write anything to you. If i did so parhaps i would end up in gulag. Now there are many who do not agree with present power and they do it openly. Anyway if you just learn how strict everything was in USSR sometime than you will see HUGE differences.
Why there are simmilarities? simple. Becouse not everything was bad in USSR. Freedoms bring not only advantages but disadvantages too. Extreems are in russian nature and we have destroyed too much from USSR and there were and are some regrets. But that doesnt means that someone is rebuilding USSR, its time has past.
And what about aggressivness to georgia? You should read thier posts and you will find same. there was war you know so i find nothing surprising in it.

[Yalta1945]

I will tell you very short story about real nature of baltics,russians and georgians. You know, that in difficult situation peoples real character is showing up. So, in Red Army, in soviet time, there was difficult atmosphera allways. And soldiers was able to see a real nature of baltics,russians and georgians. And russians real nature - "Ivan-fool", georgians - "cunning ass" and baltics - "traitors". Now you can see, that all this nations are going there way. Georgians are trying to get money and attention by cheating, russians just stupidly crashed georgians and have some conseqences but baltics looking for opportunity to initiate fight beetwen Europe and Russia and just step aside,like a provocator.

Well, I’ve been considering how to diplomatically answer to this stuff but I haven't found the way.
First, it's clear who this "Ivan-fool" is. This is the one who wrote all that about Georgians and Baltics.
Second, Lithuanians should have not served in the Soviet Army at all – under Geneva Convention of 1949, article 51: The Occupying Power may not compel protected persons to serve in its armed or auxiliary forces. So we used to live 50 years under regime which ignored this and many other laws.
Third, you must be bereft of logics when talking of “traitors”. Treason is sincere friendship with the occupants. You were just lucky because you had enough of meat for cannons. In order not to lose in war against Russia, every citizen of a small country has to kill too many enemies. On the internet, they are also outnumbered by Russians and some ‘friends’ who teach us from their own experience that the best way to escape from the forced prostitution is applying for the position of the privileged prostitute.

[Yalta1945]

Well, in as far as I heard from other people, during the USSR times, people were much happier than today in Russia, but what is really important is that everybody "were doing something", I mean everybody had a job. Moreover, the population could afford many things by the salaries they earned at those times.

Don’t believe the new fairy-tellers
Probably, we have lived a fairly long time since the break up of the USSR if a myth of “good life” under the communists appeared. The time passes and sweeps away the lives of the elderly and their memories, too. Not all the memories because something gets documented…
The new generation cannot imagine how exotic and surreal they would have felt about some aspects of the Soviet reality if they had been able to visit it by the time machine. There could be the two types of misunderstandings about it for young people.
The first one is terror, oppression, and everything that applies to the aspects of coercive, rigid and suspicious political system established by the Communists in the USSR. Some periods used to be harder, some were softer. If you’re quite young, then you may find things in the history of the USSR that would seem to you terribly shocking. The everyday life in the USSR used to expose all kinds of elemental shortages unimaginable in any European country, although the privileged existed - they were well-supplied. In case you’ve heard of that time from other socialist countries, you should know that the USSR was different even from them. Reading Vaclav Havel is not enough to understand the USSR.
The second misunderstanding rises when young people have first learnt about the darkest side of the Communist regime. Then they may ask “how did you manage survive in this Gulag?” Then they must learn that Gulag was a part of the Soviet system but the everyday life for majority of the people was not as hard as in Gulag. Some differences were also on the regional level and among different nationalities. I noticed quite a number of the new documental books written to explain many other aspects of life during the Soviet time. If you cannot come to us and simply ask people of their lives in the USSR, than it would be useful to read these books. The only problem might be… different language and context.
Just two more things to warn. First, be careful with those who traveled abroad, especially “capitalist” countries, from the USSR because ordinary people could not do it. Check their bio. It was also very unusual to have frequent contacts with foreigners. Such contacts were subject to the control and surveillance under the state security. Second… just once more: do not let yourself be at once taken in by those fairy tales . It was a brilliant remark when the M. Thatcher called the Soviet empire “Upper Volta with rockets”. This meant that political, social and economical development in the USSR was quite poor but the country was highly militarized.
A joke about from those times: “A worker steals details from his factory because he wants to assemble from them something useful for his family: washing machine, fridge or vacuum cleaner. But every time he gets only the Kalashnikov automate. “

[Yalta1945]

Well, in as far as I heard from other people, during the USSR times, people were much happier than today in Russia, but what is really important is that everybody "were doing something", I mean everybody had a job. Moreover, the population could afford many things by the salaries they earned at those times.

Don’t believe the new fairy-tellers
Probably, we have lived a fairly long time since the break up of the USSR if a myth of “good life” under the communists appeared. The time passes and sweeps away the lives of the elderly and their memories, too. Not all the memories because something gets documented…
The new generation cannot imagine how exotic and surreal they would have felt about some aspects of the Soviet reality if they had been able to visit it by the time machine. There could be just two types of misunderstandings about it for young people.
The first one is terror, oppression, and everything that applies to the aspects of coercive, rigid and suspicious political system established by the Communists in the USSR. Some periods used to be harder, some were softer. If you’re quite young, then you may find things in the history of the USSR that would seem to you terribly shocking. The everyday life in the USSR used to expose all kinds of elemental shortages unimaginable in any European country, although the privileged existed - they were well-supplied. In case you’ve heard of that time from other socialist countries, you should know that the USSR was different even from them. Reading Vaclav Havel is not enough to understand the USSR.
The second misunderstanding rises when young people have first learnt about the darkest side of the Communist regime. Then they may ask “how did you manage survive in this Gulag?” Then they must learn that Gulag was a part of the Soviet system but the everyday life for majority of the people was not as hard as in Gulag. Some differences were also on the regional level and among different nationalities. I noticed quite a number of the new documental books written to explain many other aspects of life during the Soviet time. If you cannot come to us and simply ask people of their lives in the USSR, than it would be useful to read these books. The only problem might be… different language and context.
Just two more things to warn. First, be careful with those who traveled abroad, especially “capitalist” countries, from the USSR because ordinary people could not do it. Check their bio. It was also very unusual to have frequent contacts with foreigners. Such contacts were subject to the control and surveillance under the state security. Second… just once more: do not let yourself be at once taken in by those fairy tales . It was a brilliant remark when the M. Thatcher called the Soviet empire “Upper Volta with rockets”. This meant that political, social and economical development in the USSR was quite poor but the country was highly militarized.
A joke from those times: “A worker steals details from his factory because he wants to assemble from them something useful for his family: washing machine, fridge or vacuum cleaner. But every time he gets only the Kalashnikov automate. “

[Yalta1945]

And what about aggressivness to georgia? You should read thier posts and you will find same. there was war you know so i find nothing surprising in it.

SiD, I’m fed up with reading imperialistic or nationalistic views… I think I'll soon stop casting perls.
Tonight I have read many articles, including one of Andrey Piontkovsky (Russia, world, putinism, plutocracy, etc.) . How does it happen that with such smart people you have such a … country?
I know you don’t like to be taught, and you like freedom of choice. You can choose:

“У сердца тайна есть, и пусть она хранится
Закрытой от людей как сказочная птица,
Как капелька дождя, которой суждено
В жемчужнице лежать и перлом становиться“
(some 900 years ago)
or
"Пусть снятся ночью в Грозном тебе сны о Сталине -
и не поймешь потом, как очутился в Таллинне"

[russian999]

SiD, I’m fed up with reading imperialistic or nationalistic views…

All right!!! So, you patience came allmost to the end? Read about impotence of tolerance for democracy and you will realize, that you have long way to go to get democratic charachter. So, for now you still have autoritarian impatience, do not be surprized, if some day you will be bitten up by some stronger autoritarian regime. Georgia - good example.

[Terry]

A nation's democratic character is a very complex thing. Georgia does have the tendency to democratize itself, but, it confuses things a little bit. Democracy is different from unreasonable wish to become free, since being totally free is not good at all (I'm talking about a country)