Georgia and South Ossetia at war

[independent]

In this topic many comments are pro-american and show a lot of adore of american "way of living".
Almost like e.g georgians or baltics biggest dream is their countries to turn some kind of small US copies...
And indeed - thats what it is all about. Thats what US is exporting - they call it democracy, globalisation
what ever - but their purpose is to change the rest of the world to be (and CONSUME) like them.
btw. they are mostly doing it by debts - their foreign debt is more than 10.6 trillion $ ...

So is it even realistic ?
Think what happens if the rest off the world begin to copy their "standard of living"....
Today US presents 4.5% of worlds population - what happens if we all become as irresponsible
as them:

Population (million):
US 301 (4.5%)
World total 6602 (100.00%)

Oil consumption bbl/day :
US 20.73 (25.8 %)
World total 80.24 (100%)
If whole world acts like US, it will be 456.00 (568%)

Pollution CO2 (thousand metric tons):
US 1499850 (28.2%)
World total 5322589 (100%)
If whole world acts like US, it will be 32996700 (620%)

So You can see that they are using over 5 times more resources and polluting over 6 times more
than their population authorize...

So, we have to decide is US way of living (and system) an reasonable one ?
Clearly not - and if the rest of world adobt "their way" - we will get an catastrofe with global warming.
And - are there nice humanoids to borrow those needed > 230 trillion $ to the rest of world ? If not we
can't consume for debt like US do...

[zzura]

First of all there is mistake in the name of this topic
It was not Georgian-Ossetian’s war it was Georgian –Russian war
Ossetian’s feel themselves in Georgia better then in Russian federation
There was such fact that in 1985 north Ossetian’s government send letter to Georgian government and they wanted to become part of Georgia but Russian KGB catch this people and after that thanks by Russian KGB start problems between Georgians and Ossetian’s
There was Ossetian theaters, schools, and cultural centers in Georgia which never was in Russian federation
Russian government need Ossetian’s only for destabilizations in Caucasus

[independent]

Ossetian’s feel themselves in Georgia better then in Russian federation

Give some proofs of what You are writing !

[zzura]

Proofs?
I give two of them
Which kind of proofs you need?
If historical I can sad that we was living together during 2000 year till 1990
Till 1990 in south Ossetian’s government 90% was Ossetian’s now 95% awe Russian KGB workers

[independent]

Proofs?
I give two of them
Which kind of proofs you need?
If historical I can sad that we was living together during 2000 year till 1990
Till 1990 in south Ossetian’s government 90% was Ossetian’s now 95% awe Russian KGB workers

Can't agree with that 2000 years - sorry, it is simply nonsense. Also Your claim of Ossetian
government being 95% of KGB workers seems overstated to me.
But You said "Ossetian’s feel themselves in Georgia better then in Russian federation"
and I have not seen a single political analyze supporting Your claim.

[zzura]

Yes I make mistake It was more then 2000
I sad that Ossetian’s send letter to Georgianan Government
I sad that there vas Ossetian’s culture centers
I sad that there was no problems between us before Russians
I can sad that Ossetian writers was duplicated their publications in Georgia and not in Russia because Russians do not let them to do ties in Russia
I can sad that Ossetian’s was studying in Georgian universities not in Russia because Russians do not let them to do ties in Russia
so if it is not enough I can say that you do not want to know what was and what Russians are doing

[mika]

In this topic many comments are pro-american and show a lot of adore of american "way of living".
Almost like e.g georgians or baltics biggest dream is their countries to turn some kind of small US copies...
And indeed - thats what it is all about. Thats what US is exporting - they call it democracy, globalisation
what ever - but their purpose is to change the rest of the world to be (and CONSUME) like them.
btw. they are mostly doing it by debts - their foreign debt is more than 10.6 trillion $ ...

So is it even realistic ?
Think what happens if the rest off the world begin to copy their "standard of living"....
Today US presents 4.5% of worlds population - what happens if we all become as irresponsible
as them:

Population (million):
US 301 (4.5%)
World total 6602 (100.00%)

Oil consumption bbl/day :
US 20.73 (25.8 %)
World total 80.24 (100%)
If whole world acts like US, it will be 456.00 (568%)

Pollution CO2 (thousand metric tons):
US 1499850 (28.2%)
World total 5322589 (100%)
If whole world acts like US, it will be 32996700 (620%)

So You can see that they are using over 5 times more resources and polluting over 6 times more
than their population authorize...

So, we have to decide is US way of living (and system) an reasonable one ?
Clearly not - and if the rest of world adobt "their way" - we will get an catastrofe with global warming.
And - are there nice humanoids to borrow those needed > 230 trillion $ to the rest of world ? If not we
can't consume for debt like US do...

I agree with you independent that the rest of the world should not become like Americans. In fact, I think that they are not helping anybody, look at their sponsored programs, like world bank, they give money to programs which have nothing to do with strengthening economy of any given country. However, in this forum what I see is that most people from former Soviet States are more anti-Russian than pro-American. I think United States for them is the only alternative they think they have.

[independent]

Yes I make mistake It was more then 2000
....

There was a referendum in Ossetia not long before that war - and result shows
that big, big majority of them were willing to got independence. So - again I can't
agree. Or, do You think You know better than themselves what they want ?
Btw. osseatias and georgians has not been living in same country for 2000 years
as You insist :livre

[independent]

I agree with you independent that the rest of the world should not become like Americans. In fact, I think that they are not helping anybody, look at their sponsored programs, like world bank, they give money to programs which have nothing to do with strengthening economy of any given country. However, in this forum what I see is that most people from former Soviet States are more anti-Russian than pro-American. I think United States for them is the only alternative they think they have.

I agree - and I found it kind of frightening when so many countries think there are only two possibilities.

[mika]

I agree with you independent that the rest of the world should not become like Americans. In fact, I think that they are not helping anybody, look at their sponsored programs, like world bank, they give money to programs which have nothing to do with strengthening economy of any given country. However, in this forum what I see is that most people from former Soviet States are more anti-Russian than pro-American. I think United States for them is the only alternative they think they have.

I agree - and I found it kind of frightening when so many countries think there are only two possibilities.

This is a reality though. Superpowers always played and will always play the major part in the future of the world. And small countries depend on them tremendously.

[independent]

This is a reality though. Superpowers always played and will always play the major part in the future of the world. And small countries depend on them tremendously.

I understand that - what I really mean is the lack of visionary politics. It is not very clever to
choose only between dead ends - without trying to find own way. Small countries should not
be so willing to rush irreversible engaging themselves to superpowers. Georgia was an good
example of what will be the result of doing so.

[mika]

This is a reality though. Superpowers always played and will always play the major part in the future of the world. And small countries depend on them tremendously.

I understand that - what I really mean is the lack of visionary politics. It is not very clever to
choose only between dead ends - without trying to find own way. Small countries should not
be so willing to rush irreversible engaging themselves to superpowers. Georgia was an good
example of what will be the result of doing so.

Do you really think that without common unbiased international laws any small country will be able to sustain itself in this world? Look at Ossetia and Abkhazia, will they be able to survive without Russia's strong support? it would be great if each nation had opportunity to develop and live the way it wants to live, however, so far it is very far from reality. Look who breaks every single international law - Superpower! and whole world allows it to happen. I do not see Europe as being strong enough to stand up against either US or Russia's will. And for me this is the scariest thing of all.

[independent]

Do you really think that without common unbiased international laws any small country will be able to sustain itself in this world? Look at Ossetia and Abkhazia, will they be able to survive without Russia's strong support?

No they can't - even Abkhazia might later be able to do so - but it still has to retain good relations with russia

it would be great if each nation had opportunity to develop and live the way it wants to live, however, so far it is very far from reality. Look who breaks every single international law - Superpower! and whole world allows it to happen.

You know, it is really almost funny that we allow them to break rules. And we go even further - we accept
their explanations when they do so. Especially when rules are broken by US. But there is some progress
in that - EU is no more as confident of US foreign policy as it was. US founds it harder and harder
to found allies. And indeed e.g. EU is economically big enough to challenge US if we want to do so.
Btw. thats why we found relations to russia so important - because if backed up with russia, EU is clearly
more powerful than US. But there is some dangers of trying that.

I do not see Europe as being strong enough to stand up against either US or Russia's will. And for me this is the scariest thing of all.

EU indeed is capable to do that - but it means bad business - so without an essential need, it is not logical
to do so.

[Yalta1945]

This is a reality though. Superpowers always played and will always play the major part in the future of the world. And small countries depend on them tremendously.

I understand that - what I really mean is the lack of visionary politics. It is not very clever to
choose only between dead ends - without trying to find own way. Small countries should not
be so willing to rush irreversible engaging themselves to superpowers. Georgia was an good
example of what will be the result of doing so.

Do you really think that without common unbiased international laws any small country will be able to sustain itself in this world? Look at Ossetia and Abkhazia, will they be able to survive without Russia's strong support? it would be great if each nation had opportunity to develop and live the way it wants to live, however, so far it is very far from reality. Look who breaks every single international law - Superpower! and whole world allows it to happen. I do not see Europe as being strong enough to stand up against either US or Russia's will. And for me this is the scariest thing of all.

As the Baltic States are again being labeled as either "pro-American" or "anti-Russian" when you refer to this conflict, I must say that they probably perceive Georgians as themselves because of their long experience with their Eastern neighbour and still very fresh facts of 1990-91 when they were attacked by the same neighbour on the pretext that was the Goebbels style lies. And I would advice you on refraining from speculating generally on the matters you seem to be ill-informed. Look at the role America played for the regainance of independance of the Baltic States and then just try to imagine if you were born as a Lithuanian, Latvian or Estonian... and your imagination may help you understand what you are otherwise not able to understand. As for Russia's role, I have just posted "Russia Hijacked and Lithuania Tremulous" under the topic "Lithuania decided to use its veto..." Of course, it is quite far from being the full view on the matter but I hope it could help you, provided you are guided by your good will.

[SiD]

As the Baltic States are again being labeled as either "pro-American" or "anti-Russian" when you refer to this conflict, I must say that they probably perceive Georgians as themselves because of their long experience with their Eastern neighbour and still very fresh facts of 1990-91 when they were attacked by the same neighbour on the pretext that was the Goebbels style lies. And I would advice you on refraining from speculating generally on the matters you seem to be ill-informed. Look at the role America played for the regainance of independance of the Baltic States and then just try to imagine if you were born as a Lithuanian, Latvian or Estonian... and your imagination may help you understand what you are otherwise not able to understand. As for Russia's role, I have just posted "Russia Hijacked and Lithuania Tremulous" under the topic "Lithuania decided to use its veto..." Of course, it is quite far from being the full view on the matter but I hope it could help you, provided you are guided by your good will.

That means they are not objective in thier view. No more.

[independent]

Look at the role America played for the regainance of independance of the Baltic States and then just try to imagine if you were born as a Lithuanian, Latvian or Estonian... and your imagination may help you understand what you are otherwise not able to understand

And what kind of role You think US had in those situations ? For me it seems they did nothing.
I believe it was Gorbachev who made it possible, but You might have different opinion...

[Yalta1945]

Look at the role America played for the regainance of independance of the Baltic States and then just try to imagine if you were born as a Lithuanian, Latvian or Estonian... and your imagination may help you understand what you are otherwise not able to understand

And what kind of role You think US had in those situations ? For me it seems they did nothing.
I believe it was Gorbachev who made it possible, but You might have different opinion...

And you too, you might have your different l'opinion avec un champignon. Bon appétit!

[independent]

And you too, you might have your different l'opinion avec un champignon. Bon appétit!

Do You often have problems to tolerate someone having different opinions ?
Or was it meant to be an "humoristic" remark ? :quoi

[Yalta1945]

And you too, you might have your different l'opinion avec un champignon. Bon appétit!

Do You often have problems to tolerate someone having different opinions ?
Or was it meant to be an "humoristic" remark ? :quoi

Don‘t you like your own cake?
Look what you posted today (EU sanctions against Russia):

Any "sane" man knows that tommorov Russia will invade Ukrain. Day after tommorow reserved for one of Baltic state. And then one by one Russia is planning to conquer whole Europe, than US, than China than all other states, than moon, than mars, alpha centauri this galaxy and finaly universe. Could you quess that we are planning that? .

Yeah, Im sure You are planning all that :haha - Baltics has been telling it for me many years...

What is it? It’s Your MOCKERY, that is, something absurdly or offensively inadequate or unfitting.

There are also other remarks of yours made on this forum which are cynical, that is, showing CYNICISM which means:
1. An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others.
2. A scornfully or jadedly negative comment or act.

Now let’s make a little literary analysis on the meaning of TOLERANCE. It means to recognize and respect, accept, admit, be lack of bias, etc.
I’ll stop here and ask You: How can you demand our TOLERANCE for your INTOLERANCE, that is, for your MOCKERY and CYNICISM?

Meanwhile, take it easy to read that it was my opinion about your opinion.

[independent]

And you too, you might have your different l'opinion avec un champignon. Bon appétit!

Do You often have problems to tolerate someone having different opinions ?
Or was it meant to be an "humoristic" remark ? :quoi

Don‘t you like your own cake?
Look what you posted today (EU sanctions against Russia):

Any "sane" man knows that tommorov Russia will invade Ukrain. Day after tommorow reserved for one of Baltic state. And then one by one Russia is planning to conquer whole Europe, than US, than China than all other states, than moon, than mars, alpha centauri this galaxy and finaly universe. Could you quess that we are planning that? .

Yeah, Im sure You are planning all that :haha - Baltics has been telling it for me many years...

What is it? It’s Your MOCKERY, that is, something absurdly or offensively inadequate or unfitting.

There are also other remarks of yours made on this forum which are cynical, that is, showing CYNICISM which means:
1. An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others.
2. A scornfully or jadedly negative comment or act.

Now let’s make a little literary analysis on the meaning of TOLERANCE. It means to recognize and respect, accept, admit, be lack of bias, etc.
I’ll stop here and ask You: How can you demand our TOLERANCE for your INTOLERANCE, that is, for your MOCKERY and CYNICISM?

Meanwhile, take it easy to read that it was my opinion about your opinion.

Wild guess - You had an terrible day and You are a little bit grumpy ? :love
Mockery != intolerance != cynicism...

[Yalta1945]

And you too, you might have your different l'opinion avec un champignon. Bon appétit!
----
Do You often have problems to tolerate someone having different opinions ?
Or was it meant to be an "humoristic" remark ? :quoi

Don‘t you like your own cake?
Look what you posted today (EU sanctions against Russia):

Any "sane" man knows that tommorov Russia will invade Ukrain. Day after tommorow reserved for one of Baltic state. And then one by one Russia is planning to conquer whole Europe, than US, than China than all other states, than moon, than mars, alpha centauri this galaxy and finaly universe. Could you quess that we are planning that? .

Yeah, Im sure You are planning all that :haha - Baltics has been telling it for me many years...

What is it? It’s Your MOCKERY, that is, something absurdly or offensively inadequate or unfitting.

There are also other remarks of yours made on this forum which are cynical, that is, showing CYNICISM which means:
1. An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others.
2. A scornfully or jadedly negative comment or act.

Now let’s make a little literary analysis on the meaning of TOLERANCE. It means to recognize and respect, accept, admit, be lack of bias, etc.
I’ll stop here and ask You: How can you demand our TOLERANCE for your INTOLERANCE, that is, for your MOCKERY and CYNICISM?

Meanwhile, take it easy to read that it was my opinion about your opinion.[/quote]

Wild guess - You had an terrible day and You are a little bit grumpy ? :love
Mockery != intolerance != cynicism...

Is that all you are able to say when confronted with sheer lack of logic in your statements?
It seems that after absurdity written in your statements has been just exposed, you post crazy cries. Or what is it ("Wild guess...", etc., exclamation marks and so on)?
Is repeat of mockeries, intolerance, cynicism, and absurdity goes anywhere beyond that?
What do you want to prove by all that, dear human being? (Save your kisses for smb/smth else)

[independent]

Is that all you are able to say when confronted with sheer lack of logic in your statements?
It seems that after absurdity written in your statements has been just exposed, you post crazy cries. Or what is it ("Wild guess...", etc., exclamation marks and so on)?
Is repeat of mockeries, intolerance, cynicism, and absurdity goes anywhere beyond that?
What do you want to prove by all that, dear human being? (Save your kisses for smb/smth else)

It is pretty hard to answer to Your comments in any reasonable way - simply because You
seem to lack all logic Yourself. You are criticizing others comments without any sense of humor
or arguments. And really - I understand You in Baltia are afraid of russia - but it is like
a child being afraid of dark. It is not reasonable to ask us to share the same fear.

[Yalta1945]

Is that all you are able to say when confronted with sheer lack of logic in your statements?
It seems that after absurdity written in your statements has been just exposed, you post crazy cries. Or what is it ("Wild guess...", etc., exclamation marks and so on)?
Is repeat of mockeries, intolerance, cynicism, and absurdity goes anywhere beyond that?
What do you want to prove by all that, dear human being? (Save your kisses for smb/smth else)

It is pretty hard to answer to Your comments in any reasonable way - simply because You
seem to lack all logic Yourself. You are criticizing others comments without any sense of humor
or arguments. And really - I understand You in Baltia are afraid of russia - but it is like
a child being afraid of dark. It is not reasonable to ask us to share the same fear.

Well, I provided enough of reasons and hints to explain many things. You are surprisingely trying to reduce all the arguments I have provided just to some "fears". Nobody asks you to share them. I don't know your interest and intensions but I have got a deep distrust in your arguments because they are not logical, first of all, then they are just cynical remarks. But when I joke, you raise your eyebrows, then accuse me exactly of the same thing you lacked - that is, sense of humour. To me it seems you know price of everything but value of nothing. You wrote nothing to answer my arguments. You are just repeating many times without any prove your accusations and predispositions. This is not braveness, to my mind - not at all.

[SiD]

Any "sane" man knows that tommorov Russia will invade Ukrain. Day after tommorow reserved for one of Baltic state. And then one by one Russia is planning to conquer whole Europe, than US, than China than all other states, than moon, than mars, alpha centauri this galaxy and finaly universe. Could you quess that we are planning that? .

Yeah, Im sure You are planning all that :haha - Baltics has been telling it for me many years...

What is it? It’s Your MOCKERY, that is, something absurdly or offensively inadequate or unfitting.

There are also other remarks of yours made on this forum which are cynical, that is, showing CYNICISM which means:
1. An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others.
2. A scornfully or jadedly negative comment or act.

Now let’s make a little literary analysis on the meaning of TOLERANCE. It means to recognize and respect, accept, admit, be lack of bias, etc.
I’ll stop here and ask You: How can you demand our TOLERANCE for your INTOLERANCE, that is, for your MOCKERY and CYNICISM?

Meanwhile, take it easy to read that it was my opinion about your opinion.

Mockery of what? plaese tell me. Do you believe that someone needs to stop Russia from something? From what?

[independent]

So You "ask" me:

What is it? It’s Your MOCKERY, that is, something absurdly or offensively inadequate or unfitting.
There are also other remarks of yours made on this forum which are cynical, that is, showing CYNICISM which means:
1. An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others.
2. A scornfully or jadedly negative comment or act.
Now let’s make a little literary analysis on the meaning of TOLERANCE. It means to recognize and respect, accept, admit, be lack of bias, etc.
I’ll stop here and ask You: How can you demand our TOLERANCE for your INTOLERANCE, that is, for your MOCKERY and CYNICISM?

Sorry, but it still don't seem an clear question to me -

Well, I provided enough of reasons and hints to explain many things. You are surprisingely trying to reduce all the arguments I have provided just to some "fears".

Are we speaking about Your comments of mine comments - or commonly Your comments during this topic?

Nobody asks you to share them. I don't know your interest and intensions but I have got a deep distrust in your arguments because they are not logical, first of all, then they are just cynical remarks. But when I joke, you raise your eyebrows, then accuse me exactly of the same thing you lacked - that is, sense of humour. To me it seems you know price of everything but value of nothing. You wrote nothing to answer my arguments. You are just repeating many times without any prove your accusations and predispositions. This is not braveness, to my mind - not at all.

Oh, really ? And You are trying to look after arguments of:

Any "sane" man knows that tommorov Russia will invade Ukrain. Day after tommorow reserved for one of Baltic state. And then one by one Russia is planning to conquer whole Europe, than US, than China than all other states, than moon, than mars, alpha centauri this galaxy and finaly universe. Could you quess that we are planning that?

Yeah, Im sure You are planning all that :haha - Baltics has been telling it for me many years...

What can I say - I believe You take some things too seriously...