Georgia and South Ossetia at war

[Eka]

Our army could easily smash those Island and force it to remain with Finland. But it is not the way thinks are
dealed in democratic countries.

You are absolutely right, this is true democracy!

But what Georgia is doing is Violence!
Georgia don`t let to S.Osetia and Abhazia to be independent. It simple to understand.
And Georgia call it Democracy, it`s hypocrisy. And instead of peacfull negotiations began to use arms.
USA lost true value of word 'democracy' with their wars, and Georgia trying to copy it.

cHECHNIA WANTS TO BE INDEPANDAT TOO BUT RUSSIANS DONT LET THEM TO DO THIS.wHAT ABOUT THIS?

[independent]

YOU YOUR OWN OR NATO?
i SUPPOSE YOU ARE NOT fINLAND BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE CALM CHARACTERS!
BY THE WAY WE HAVE GOOD HUMOR SENS !

We don't belong to NATO - no need for that. We have learned to keep independent ourself...
Not by flexing muscles belonging to someone else ...

[Mariam]

Listen YOUr way of thinking is very funny. With that mentality, everyone in the world can say they wnat indefandance and start fighting? Villeages, CIties, even street can be a state? IS it your was of thinking? :quoi

I will create som union. In this union will be representied e.g. 1000 GEorgian. Then we will come in finland (????, or maybe in MOscow), and we will say we want to an indepandance and want HELSINKI (MOSCOW). Will you (personally) accept it and say, come on... let them live here, THOSE people need an independance. :haha
I'm waiting for your reply.

Funny You ask that :nonnon

In Finland we have an territory called Ahvenanmaa (Island between Finland and Sweden )and its people found that they might want to be a part of Sweden better than Finland. There has been local polls of that issue - and so far polls has shown that more than half of them are wiling to remain with Finland.
When votings there shows that majority will not belong to Finland - Thats it, they will immediately get what they want. AND we are not telling them - move away, we keep that Island.

Ahvenanmaa - Population ca. 30000 people
- area ca. 2000 km2 ( half of South-Ossetias)

I could not find any info about this island? Can u provide mi with a map.link of a map where it will be obvious for me.

AS for OSetians and ABkhaz people we don't say them go!!! But if people divorce and they don't want to live together, then the owner of the house is staying there. NO? :quoi
AND PLEASE ANSWER EKA"S QUESTION. CHECHEN PEOPLE WANTED AND STILL WANT TO BE INDEFENDENT< WHY RUSSIA DOESN"T GIVE THEM THIS FREEDOM? WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? :quoi

[Eka]

Our army could easily smash those Island and force it to remain with Finland. But it is not the way thinks are
dealed in democratic countries.

You are absolutely right, this is true democracy!

But what Georgia is doing is Violence!
Georgia don`t let to S.Osetia and Abhazia to be independent. It simple to understand.
And Georgia call it Democracy, it`s hypocrisy. And instead of peacfull negotiations began to use arms.
USA lost true value of word 'democracy' with their wars, and Georgia trying to copy it.

I have a question? WHY RUSSIAN U DISGUISE YOURSELVES? ANDREAS - THE SAME ANDREI. DON'T U LIKE YOUR NAME? :haha

uper tHEY ARE SHAME THATS WAY!
ONLY FEW OF THEM ARE TELLING THAT THEY ARE RUSSIANS, ANOTHER PERSONS ARE TELING THEY ARE FROM VARIUOS EUROPEAN COUNTIRES.

nOW BAY i AM LIVING MY OFFICE AND GOING TO VOLUNTEER IN REJUGEE CAMP NEAR TBILISI WERE ARE THOUSANDS OF GEORGIANS WHO NEED MAY HELP.

[Terry]

here you go Mariam, it's a google map
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.maplandia.com/finland/ahvenanmaa/">http://www.maplandia.com/finland/ahvenanmaa/</a><!-- m -->

[Eka]

YOU YOUR OWN OR NATO?
i SUPPOSE YOU ARE NOT fINLAND BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE CALM CHARACTERS!
BY THE WAY WE HAVE GOOD HUMOR SENS !

We don't belong to NATO - no need for that. We have learned to keep independent ourself...
Not by flexing muscles belonging to someone else ...

bEFORE I LEEV I WILL GIVE YOU ADVISE - RUSH TO NATO.
RUSSIANS ARE COMING! BUT THEY RESPECT 5-TH COLONES IN COUNTRY THEY CONCQERNE SO YOU WILL BE OK.

i KNOW SOME FINLAND CITIZENS BY THE WAY AND THEY THINK TOTALY DIFFFERENT FROM YOU.

[Andres]

I have a question? WHY RUSSIAN U DISGUISE YOURSELVES? ANDREAS - THE SAME ANDREI. DON'T U LIKE YOUR NAME? :haha

This forum is for discuss about problems, not persons. And it`s not beautifully to begin to said russians are stupid, or georgians are idiots, you have to know the word respect.

If it`s intresting for you, i answer, yes, i don`t like my name, don`t know why, and it is not russian name ( i am), are you happy now? ))) I have lived a long time in Spain, and Andres is Spanish Andrey, and i use it now in internet.

[Andres]

Our army could easily smash those Island and force it to remain with Finland. But it is not the way thinks are
dealed in democratic countries.

You are absolutely right, this is true democracy!

But what Georgia is doing is Violence!
Georgia don`t let to S.Osetia and Abhazia to be independent. It simple to understand.
And Georgia call it Democracy, it`s hypocrisy. And instead of peacfull negotiations began to use arms.
USA lost true value of word 'democracy' with their wars, and Georgia trying to copy it.

cHECHNIA WANTS TO BE INDEPANDAT TOO BUT RUSSIANS DONT LET THEM TO DO THIS.wHAT ABOUT THIS?

If it so how you said, i don`t sure exactly, it the same violence. But we speak here not about this.
Russia made in history many errores, and not all russians are good. I can recognize it, but it`s same for all countries, and all peoples. What you trying to do know is defense, provocate, find black sides in russia and russians, but people everywhere are same.

[independent]

AS for OSetians and ABkhaz people we don't say them go!!! But if people divorce and they don't want to live together, then the owner of the house is staying there. NO? :quoi

About Ahvenanmaa You can read this:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85land">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85land</a><!-- m -->

To me it makes more sense that the one who lives in "that room" stays there. And owner keeps remaining
rooms ...

AND PLEASE ANSWER EKA"S QUESTION. CHECHEN PEOPLE WANTED AND STILL WANT TO BE INDEFENDENT< WHY RUSSIA DOESN"T GIVE THEM THIS FREEDOM? WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? :quoi

I really don't know that much about the situation there nowadays. But commonly I ALWAYS want that
people has right to decide it them self. Without knowing more, I can't comment why or why not russia
does something there.

[independent]

bEFORE I LEEV I WILL GIVE YOU ADVISE - RUSH TO NATO.
RUSSIANS ARE COMING! BUT THEY RESPECT 5-TH COLONES IN COUNTRY THEY CONCQERNE SO YOU WILL BE OK.

We don't need NATO to back us - so simply. We can defence ourselfs and we can keep good
relations with russia . We are not trying to proov them something - and they to us. We know
each other too well...

i KNOW SOME FINLAND CITIZENS BY THE WAY AND THEY THINK TOTALY DIFFFERENT FROM YOU.

I agree there are. You can always find provocative and heedless from whatever country. Most of Finnish
don't want to belong to NATO (we voted of that) - and we live in democracy

[SiD]

ANOTHER Russian argument ..." keep your mouth closed" ... Why because truth hurts? Or maybe you don't want to hear it? Why is it better for us to shut up? Are you gonna invade us like you did to Georgia?? UHHH i'm scared!! As usual the fascist in you says:"You have no right speeking about anything".... because you think that only you, Russians have all the rights!!!! WE, the rest of the world are complete idiots!!! :nonnon

I will try to remain calm. PLEASE Lor enter topic:Who started the war in S. Osetia: Georgia or Russia?
and READ first page and especialy posts of person "IamGEORGIA".
You will find words: Keep your mouth closed...better for you and for the rest..
You have no right speeking about anything
and look who said that.
I am waiting for apologie.

[independent]

This case is not about what russia did wrong, but rather an much bigger issue - culminating to what
Saakashvili did wrong:

New York Times:
U.S. Watched as a Squabble Turned Into a Showdown

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/washington/18diplo.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=world">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/washi ... &ref=world</a><!-- m -->

Or will You tell me that also NYT is Pro-Russian ?

[Lor]

ok Sid!Next time you post something on your name, make sure you SPECIFY that somebody else made that comment. Otherwise how can i dream what you meant? Am i supposed to go on each forum to keep up with what everybody says?

Overall i'm not a fan of ignorance! I don't care if it comes from a Georgian or from a Russian! Let's try to be polite and listen to each other! Most of the rude feedbacks i got were from Russian people, that's why i assumed that the comment was yours.

Extremism is not good! This argument is getting dumber and dumber! Let's stay on the topic and try to post things in English! For as long as people keep being polite, everything's gonna be ok.

[SiD]

ok Sid!Next time you post something on your name, make sure you SPECIFY that somebody else made that comment. Otherwise how can i dream what you meant? Am i supposed to go on each forum to keep up with what everybody says?

Overall i'm not a fan of ignorance! I don't care if it comes from a Georgian or from a Russian! Let's try to be polite and listen to each other! Most of the rude feedbacks i got were from Russian people, that's why i assumed that the comment was yours.

Extremism is not good! This argument is getting dumber and dumber! Let's stay on the topic and try to post things in English! For as long as people keep being polite, everything's gonna be ok.

Well Lor i have seen no opologie but seen an interesting thing. If someone said something rude HE HAS to be Russian, if bullet killed innocend it HAS to be Russian bullet, if someone is wrong he HAS to be Russian just becouse you think that Russia is source of all evil. You do not admit that you wrong you just say that bad russian have not SPCIFIED you who told this. And you showed no "rightous anger" to him that you shown to me. It is becouse i am russian right? sorry but it sounds like rusophobia. Or double standarts.

[Tamar]

First of all let me express my condolences to the relatives of all the peacful civilians and journalists killed, among them the friend of my husband, who was shot by the occupants while doing his job!
Believe me we mourn with you and our hearts ache.
Rest in peace.

[Lor]

ok Sid!Next time you post something on your name, make sure you SPECIFY that somebody else made that comment. Otherwise how can i dream what you meant? Am i supposed to go on each forum to keep up with what everybody says?

Overall i'm not a fan of ignorance! I don't care if it comes from a Georgian or from a Russian! Let's try to be polite and listen to each other! Most of the rude feedbacks i got were from Russian people, that's why i assumed that the comment was yours.

Extremism is not good! This argument is getting dumber and dumber! Let's stay on the topic and try to post things in English! For as long as people keep being polite, everything's gonna be ok.

Well Lor i have seen no opologie but seen an interesting thing. If someone said something rude HE HAS to be Russian, if bullet killed innocend it HAS to be Russian bullet, if someone is wrong he HAS to be Russian just becouse you think that Russia is source of all evil. You do not admit that you wrong you just say that bad russian have not SPCIFIED you who told this. And you showed no "rightous anger" to him that you shown to me. It is becouse i am russian right? sorry but it sounds like rusophobia. Or double standarts.

Dear Sid i currently live in Odessa( i know it's in Ukraine but majority of people speak Russian and think they are Russians). My husband is Russian and lots of my friends... therefore i'm FAR from being rusophobic!
I'm actually shocked to see the Russian citizens' reaction to this horrible war. So far none has been up to open discussion. They all ignored my posts that contained EU diplomats' analysis. Just because it was against their ideas. I wish they would feel compassion and mourn for the victims instead.None of the Georgians on this forum was rude to me and i can't say the same about the Russians(except for Gift)!

I know that not ALL the Russians cheer for this war and show off with their military power. I know that there are people in Russia who are against this war. The problem is that i didn't see any on this forum, except for one.

P.S:I'm sorry for the previous misunderstanding.

[SiD]

Dear Sid i currently live in Odessa( i know it's in Ukraine but majority of people speak Russian and think they are Russians). My husband is Russian and lots of my friends... therefore i'm FAR from being rusophobic!
I'm actually shocked to see the Russian citizens' reaction to this horrible war. So far none has been up to open discussion. They all ignored my posts that contained EU diplomats' analysis. Just because it was against their ideas. I wish they would feel compassion and mourn for the victims instead.None of the Georgians on this forum was rude to me and i can't say the same about the Russians(except for Gift)!

I know that not ALL the Russians cheer for this war and show off with their military power. I know that there are people in Russia who are against this war. The problem is that i didn't see any on this forum, except for one.

P.S:I'm sorry for the previous misunderstanding.

Well Lor your position is pro Georgian why should they be rude to you? Actualy you called brainwashed everybody who disagrees with you (all tyrants are calling traitors all who disagrees wit them). And you call yourself tolerant. Besides you shown what you thinking about "IamGEORGIA"guy when thought it were my words, so comment other georgian statments. I can provide you with some of thier nonsenses if you wish. Would you be so furius on them? If you not russophobic it means you use double standarts.
Thank you for apologie. And if you think that Russians are happy about civilian loses in Georgia, or facts of looting you surely mistaken. Every sane man knows that death of innocent people from any side is tragedy, and of course our soldiers must behaeve well, if they are looting, mistreating population or doing anything like that it is real shame. But we know that war was neccecery, could we just abandone our citizens and peacekeepers, NO! Saakashvili wanted war and war he got.

[Eka]

Dear Sid i currently live in Odessa( i know it's in Ukraine but majority of people speak Russian and think they are Russians). My husband is Russian and lots of my friends... therefore i'm FAR from being rusophobic!
I'm actually shocked to see the Russian citizens' reaction to this horrible war. So far none has been up to open discussion. They all ignored my posts that contained EU diplomats' analysis. Just because it was against their ideas. I wish they would feel compassion and mourn for the victims instead.None of the Georgians on this forum was rude to me and i can't say the same about the Russians(except for Gift)!

I know that not ALL the Russians cheer for this war and show off with their military power. I know that there are people in Russia who are against this war. The problem is that i didn't see any on this forum, except for one.

P.S:I'm sorry for the previous misunderstanding.

Well Lor your position is pro Georgian why should they be rude to you? Actualy you called brainwashed everybody who disagrees with you (all tyrants are calling traitors all who disagrees wit them). And you call yourself tolerant. Besides you shown what you thinking about "IamGEORGIA"guy when thought it were my words, so comment other georgian statments. I can provide you with some of thier nonsenses if you wish. Would you be so furius on them? If you not russophobic it means you use double standarts.
Thank you for apologie. And if you think that Russians are happy about civilian loses in Georgia, or facts of looting you surely mistaken. Every sane man knows that death of innocent people from any side is tragedy, and of course our soldiers must behaeve well, if they are looting, mistreating population or doing anything like that it is real shame. But we know that war was neccecery, could we just abandone our citizens and peacekeepers, NO! Saakashvili wanted war and war he got.

War was neededfor russians first of all. My opinion is that as usualy during wars some 5-10 people becames bilioneers and you know what make me to think so?
Condition of russia army I am observing in Georgia. They must be feeded, they mest have normal hygen and normal clothing .butto look at them is so difficult. They are like beggers, some of themare asking bread at water to georgains in villages, mostly they are not asking but taking it with force. They look ill. As my friens who is nurse in Village igoeti said to me many of them have severe diahrea, perhaps they are eating many frutes with durty heands. ( fruits are thie main food here). I suppose some people are becoming reacher and reacher as thiscampein is going ahead, because rusiian army is financed well and someone is not giving supplies to army but having villas in france?

So corraption is huge as I understand and it will turn back.

[clearman]

TBILISI (AFP) — German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Sunday assured Georgia would join NATO as she strongly backed the ex-Soviet republic's President Mikheil Saakashvili in his conflict with Russia.

"Georgia will become a member of NATO if it wants to -- and it does want to," she told reporters before talks with Saakashvili in Tbilisi.

It was one of the strongest statements yet of support for Georgia's NATO membership bid, which is fiercely opposed by Russia.

"We are on a clear road towards NATO membership (for Georgia)," she added at a later news conference.

[Mariam]

One interesting finding and I wish to share it with you. According to my observation every third post (exept those giving a feedback or offending each other) which is place by our Russian neighbours contains text directed again Saakashvili. OUtcome, So our Russian representatives here are agianst Saakasvili and his way of managing the country. Interesting yeah. THey don't like that he knows too many languages, they don't like when during the presence of high range diplomats here in Georgia he speacks English, many more.... The same we can say about russian government. They don't support Saakashvilis political direction and therefore not only critiseze but show the real hate toward him. SO willl anyone here convince me to listen to all these russians representativs who speak the same language as their government? No. OUTCOME - You are just making the tipycal propaganda here.

[independent]

One interesting finding and I wish to share it with you. According to my observation every third post (exept those giving a feedback or offending each other) which is place by our Russian neighbours contains text directed again Saakashvili. OUtcome, So our Russian representatives here are agianst Saakasvili and his way of managing the country. Interesting yeah. THey don't like that he knows too many languages, they don't like when during the presence of high range diplomats here in Georgia he speacks English, many more.... The same we can say about russian government. They don't support Saakashvilis political direction and therefore not only critiseze but show the real hate toward him. SO willl anyone here convince me to listen to all these russians representativs who speak the same language as their government? No. OUTCOME - You are just making the tipycal propaganda here.

If You read New York Times article:
U.S. Watched as a Squabble Turned Into a Showdown

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/washington/18diplo.html?ref=world">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/washi ... ?ref=world</a><!-- m -->

You can find out some reasons why so many criticize him.

[SiD]

War was neededfor russians first of all. My opinion is that as usualy during wars some 5-10 people becames bilioneers and you know what make me to think so?
Condition of russia army I am observing in Georgia. They must be feeded, they mest have normal hygen and normal clothing .butto look at them is so difficult. They are like beggers, some of themare asking bread at water to georgains in villages, mostly they are not asking but taking it with force. They look ill. As my friens who is nurse in Village igoeti said to me many of them have severe diahrea, perhaps they are eating many frutes with durty heands. ( fruits are thie main food here). I suppose some people are becoming reacher and reacher as thiscampein is going ahead, because rusiian army is financed well and someone is not giving supplies to army but having villas in france?

So corraption is huge as I understand and it will turn back.

(If it is true, i wery much doubt it)They may be asking or teaking bread or water or whanever not for themselves, or they given thier own food to S Osetians whom you left with nothing among ruins.

By the way you georgians always say that our soldiers and generals are drunk, parhaps they counted on your food and taken more vodka instead :lol: . ( Just kidding)

[RussiaGoHome]

Georgia and South Ossetia at war

Think that the name of this topic is not correct. there was no war between Georgian and Osetian People, it's Russian Propaganda, who also forced people from this region to take Russian passports. Russia genocide Georgian and Osetian people in this region.
Russia had well prepared plans for Georgia. In Spring it has training alongside Georgian borders in the Northern Ossetia and trained 7 000 people for the "special" situation, like how to invade Georgia. In few hours whole Russian army there from different sides: in Abkhazia, In S.Ossetia, Near Kazbegi. So who planed to start war?!
And the refugee camp in Vladikavkaz was opened earlier than Georgia started to defend itself, when there were killed 6 Georgian policemen after bombing from the side of S. Ossetia territory.
So this is not S.Osetian and Georgian War, definitely it's Russian aggression against Georgia.

[Eka]

One interesting finding and I wish to share it with you. According to my observation every third post (exept those giving a feedback or offending each other) which is place by our Russian neighbours contains text directed again Saakashvili. OUtcome, So our Russian representatives here are agianst Saakasvili and his way of managing the country. Interesting yeah. THey don't like that he knows too many languages, they don't like when during the presence of high range diplomats here in Georgia he speacks English, many more.... The same we can say about russian government. They don't support Saakashvilis political direction and therefore not only critiseze but show the real hate toward him. SO willl anyone here convince me to listen to all these russians representativs who speak the same language as their government? No. OUTCOME - You are just making the tipycal propaganda here.

If You read New York Times article:
U.S. Watched as a Squabble Turned Into a Showdown

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/washington/18diplo.html?ref=world">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/washi ... ?ref=world</a><!-- m -->

You can find some reasons why so many criticize him.

Of course we are criticize him as well ,its normal. But Mariams idea was that his criticizm is linked with personal hate of russian prezidents to him ( as I properly understood her). But I am sure that it doesnot matter eho will be president here, if is pro-western he will be in same way hated by russian govermant. So in reality Saakashvilis hate is not so important, much more serioz is his pro westrn politics.

Meanwille I observed many articles in Times and independant and there some of them with critisicm toqrd Georgia but mostly there analizing situation correctly, so it will take place and time to put links here. As I understoos all of you are interesting in what is written about situation, but what was interesting there were sme comments from readers from Finland and they are very conserned with situation.
Then i look to Finlands and NAto relations and learned many ninteresting things ( Thank you for pushing me to this articles . for egzample:
Finland’s main objective in participating in the Partnership for Peace (PfP) programme is to develop and enhance interoperability between NATO and Partner forces. NATO and Finland detail cooperative actions and timelines in the Finnish Individual Partnership Programme (IPP), which is jointly agreed for a two-year period. Key areas include security and peacekeeping cooperation, crisis management and civil emergency planning.

Finland has worked alongside the Allies in security and peacekeeping operations[flash=]in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo and Afghanistan.[/flash
It is quite interesing is not this?

So NATO is backing Finland as FInland is doing the same.Of course very wise from your govermant.

[Tamar]

This war made it clear that Russia is: 1) an aggressor number 1 in the world, it carrys a real threat to the post soviet countries and not only to them, 2)Its word and agreement are worth nth and it can breach it any time, any where with any one.
Just for information: it's Monday night and Russian army does not show the signs of withdrawl , they are just changing its position, bombing Senaki military base, but before that taking eth which could be taken with them. The beggar soldiers still begging, their tanks ruining Georgian police cars, as the latest refused to give them the way to the village Russians were heading to, their general clearly saying: "I don't care about your opinion, my tanks will run away your cars" said - done.
30 generals awarded today by the president Putin today, TOP OF CYNISM AND BRUTALITY! BUT THAT'S RUSSIA, GUYS!
The refugees from Abkhazia residing in Senaki, these same people today are becoming the refugees from Senaki, because this time again Medieval Barbarian beggars destroy the roof above their heads!
And that dummy general - today on CNN LIVE: caught by the journalist admitting that yes South Osetia( but you know, I wont call it South Osetia for now on as it is Samachablo and it is Georgia indeed) is Georgia and they will keep their forces in its territory! God, such an idiot! Then realising what he said he corrected his words! What a shame!
But what is clear and obvious is that now we are near to NATO than ever, so let's pray that tomorrow eth will go well.