Russia-Ukraine gas conflict

[Benn]

when I first time saw geely, I thought I saw Mercedes. They are so much alike.
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[Max]

when I first time saw geely, I thought I saw Mercedes. They are so much alike.

Yes, it’s widely known, Geely copied Mercedes design in CK model, the simplest and cheapest one. Moreover, entire car construction is copied from Toyota Corolla, quite legally. They also use Toyota engine. They have not experience so they ought to copy. As about design piece so it is not protected by copyrights, I think such plagiarism is not illegal… this is just amusing.

Their MK and FC models look originally enough. But it’s obvious their work under powerful influence and guide of Japan and they don’t try to imitate European or American cars in most cases.

We actually heard nothing about Chinese cars just 3 years ago… but now there is real flood.

Well, of course, I don’t believe Chinese cars pretend on luxury or they will in nearest future. Only Japan broke through. But since we talk about “anti-crisis” cars, I guess China offers rather eatable surrogate.

[Guest]

IMO Ukrainians provoked the gas conflict with Russia, so that they come closer to NATO and EU. I wouldn't call this terrorism, but I would definitely say it is not nice to darken someone's reputation (here: Russia) just because you want to reach your target.

Terry have you been reading anything lately. You pulling statments like one above right out of your ass. :banghead
Russia demended higher price $450 when they could,t get it they turn the gas off.
At the end price settled on about $270 ( don't qute me on that)Russian reputatinion is very dark they froze a lot of people in EU, Russia droped all the clams about theft b/c there was non.
So STOP BEING UNTRUTHFULL

[BK]

Having now spoken to several EU representatives, I can now say with some degree of certainty that the EU primarily holds Russia responsible for the gas shut-off. However, the EU DOES deplore the political mess in Ukraine which they believe made it possible for Russia to throw a smoke screen over its actions and they are disgusted by Ukraine's failure to offer to share its massive reserves. There will be a meeting in March between the EU, the U.S. and Ukraine concerning Ukraines transit pipelines. It is likely that Russia will not be renewing its transit contract with Ukraine in 2010. Instead, Ukraine will sign contracts with the EU who will establish proper transil prices. Another EU goal is to combine all of the current individual contracts under one umbrella and to establish a pricing mechanism independent of those individual contracts as well as to assume responsiblity for negotiating future contracts. This would make it much more difficult to manipulate individual EU countries by offering them special contracts. TUnfortunately, I'm told that this goal is not likely to be realised in the very near future.

In the meantime, Russia's agressive moves to establish control over vast Artic energy reserves that are/were considered part of the wealth of all nations is a source of intense concern and may trigger another crisis in the near future --assuming that Russia is serious about its intention to renounce applicable treaties and resort to force if its claims of exclusive soverignty over much of the now accessible Artic territory is not recognised by the world community.

Is Ukraine a terrorist state? No. Is Russia? There are many in the EU who now believe that it may well be or become one.

[Eugene from Belarus]

Ну так автор из той же серии репортёров, что и журналисты CNN, только вот нашим журналистам, почему-то, не охота его за руку на лжи ловить...
И, вообще, давно уже известно, что Пиндостан это Империя Лжи, которую они выдают за статистику... laughing

А вот расследование болгар:

Местное отделение правящей болгарской Социалистической партии в городе Плевна выпустило официальное заявление, осуждающее “тенденциозный репортаж о Болгарии”, показанный на CNN, сообщает интернет-ресурс Novinite.com. Репортаж, подготовленный журналистом независимого британского канала ITN Робертом Муром и показанный по CNN, был о том, как мерзли в своих домах жители Плевны в ходе недавнего газового конфликта между Россией и Украиной. В свою очередь журналист болгарского телеканала bTV Стоян Георгиев, проведя собственное расследование, выяснил, что

сюжет, прошедший по CNN, мягко говоря, вводит зрителей в заблуждение.
Замерзающих жителей Плевны снимали на улице Тотлебена, где живут в основном цыгане. Побывав там, Стоян Георгиев выяснил, что дома, в которых Мур "собирал" картинки для своего сюжета, никогда не были подключены к центральному отоплению. Соответственно газовый кризис на жителях этих домов никак сказаться не мог – они как обогревались, так и обогреваются дровами и углем.

Цыгане, которых снимал Мур, сказали, что и понятия не имели о том, что сюжет будет о газовом кризисе. Как выяснил Стоян Георгиев, Мур, желая набрать побольше эффектных кадров, даже попросил цыганских детей протянуть свои якобы иззябшие руки к выключенной электроплитке.

Дальше - больше. Действие в сюжете Мура перемещается на местную ТЭЦ. В кадре труба, по которой якобы на ТЭЦ поступает обычно российский газ. Счетчик на трубе показывает нули – газ перекрыт. Однако Георгиев выяснил, что нули этот счетчик показывает уже много лет: труба не используется и вообще к газораспределительной системе не имеет никакого отношения.

В своем материале Стоян Георгиев сравнил достойные игрового кино кадры Мура с заметкой о смерти Марка Твена – о собственной кончине писатель, как известно, узнал в одной из британских газет и изрек знаменитую фразу:

"Слухи о моей смерти сильно преувеличены".
Георгиев, отправил Муру письмо по электронной почте – Мур ничего не ответил. Да и что тут скажешь? То, что CNN – не эталон объективности, признают даже сами американские журналисты. Видно, и независимая британская ITN, по заказу которой Мур снял репортаж, тоже далеко не такая уж независимая.

[Terry]

Eugene could you please post it in English so that everybody understand this. And is the connection between Gypsies and this gas conflict?

[Guest]

Yes Terry that post was really interesting and informative.

[coconat]

while u fighting like noobs, i bring here information that can save few poor people, run electricy through water with wires(best with aluminium and little salt in water) and hydrogene gas will lift up. :quoi :evil :banghead :livre

[Steven]

coconat can you be more specific. I don't see how electricity can be run through water with wires? :quoi
You wanna help poor people, then give us details.

[Max]

Anyway, to reunite car discussion with gas theme I can predict better future for German and Italian car producers. Just look at what happens, French and rest of Europe carmakers suffer great loses while crisis in Germany and Italy is not so notable. The explanation is preferential prices for Russian gas which gives them competitive advantages over others.

This is core sense of widely discussed German economical egocentrism. Let’s don’t forget this scenario resembles more then a half of century old story forgotten by many ones. Then Germany “united” all Europe except the Britain. On this stage they had friendly relations with Russia till close military cooperation and even brotherly shared Eastern Europe. Later real intends became apparent and they begun the war. As result half of Europe passed to Russia and other half passed obviously to US. More then forty years were required to improve the situation.

Let’s don’t forget the history is repeated twice, first time as tragedy, second time as farce.

[Faw_Peter]

Hey Max, I wouldn't say German car producers don't suffer because of crisis. Did you know that many factories reduced the working hours for diminishing expenses. Also, many jobs were simply cut by BMW.

[Guest]

while u fighting like noobs, i bring here information that can save few poor people, run electricy through water with wires(best with aluminium and little salt in water) and hydrogene gas will lift up. :quoi :evil :banghead :livre

Duhhh... :ugeek: And how do you generate the electricity you need to create the hydrogen? Gas? Oil? Coal? You? Thank you for your demonstration of the adage that every difficult question has an answer that is simply, short and wrong. :banghead

[Faw_Peter]

while u fighting like noobs, i bring here information that can save few poor people, run electricy through water with wires(best with aluminium and little salt in water) and hydrogene gas will lift up. :quoi :evil :banghead :livre

Duhhh... :ugeek: And how do you generate the electricity you need to create the hydrogen? Gas? Oil? Coal? You? Thank you for your demonstration of the adage that every difficult question has an answer that is simply, short and wrong. :banghead

don't know what coconut meant, but it's probably something related to wave power, maybe. I am not a physician, though. Maybe there is a way to run electricity through water with wires. But as long is it's not widely used worldwide, there's no sense that we use it individually.

[london_observer]

KIEV, Jan 20 (Reuters) - European Union reassured Ukraine its row with Russia over gas supplies would not affect EU-Ukrainian relations

Well, Ukrainian minister Yuri Luzenko said ‘nazi swine’ in Frankfurt airport recently, according to Bild.de…

I’m sure this won’t affect EU-Ukraine relations either, because the minster was reportedly drunk.

But that comment by a Ukraine minister raises the question, how firmly his country is committed to the values of the civilized free world.

Such comments simply cannot come from member of a democratic government of a country aspiring to EU and NATO membership!