As always, no REAL facts from your side, just bla-bla-bla, like Putin is a great, I love Putin, Putin is a superman and he will save the world! :haha
Once again! Leave Mr. Putin for yourself and live Ukrainians alone with your paranoic ideas about how we could be happy if we let Mr. Putin rule our country! :lol: NEVER!
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Guest Wrote:As always, no REAL facts from your side, just bla-bla-bla, like Putin is a great, I love Putin, Putin is a superman and he will save the world! :haha
Once again! Leave Mr. Putin for yourself and live Ukrainians alone with your paranoic ideas about how we could be happy if we let Mr. Putin rule our country! :lol: NEVER!
Yes I wish to leave it, but this is you who repeats constantly: Putin is that , Putin is bad!
So no problem! Just do not touch him.
No, my dear friend! I just answer you  If you say that Putin loves Ukraine and wants to make our lives better, I answer you as Ukrainian - NO, he is not! If you say, that Putin is good ruler, I say: no problem, maybe he is a good one for Russia, but not for Ukrainians. And as soon as you stop spread discreditive info about Ukraine and stop blaming my country and learn how it is to respect someone as well as his choice and his opinion - we will be able to communicate, listen to each other and hear each other!
Nothing personal to you, but I do not want this political conflict becomes a reason of hatred between peoples.
We can share our opinions and use the real facts in order to understand each other's point of you and try to find the truth, but we definitely should be tolerant to each other's choice and opinion. I am ready to apologise or change my opinion if there's any strong reason for it. But I do not want to be blamed and let nobody blame my country without strong reasons and evidences!
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Guest Wrote:No, my dear friend! I just answer you If you say that Putin loves Ukraine and wants to make our lives better, I answer you as Ukrainian - NO, he is not! If you say, that Putin is good ruler, I say: no problem, maybe he is a good one for Russia, but not for Ukrainians. And as soon as you stop spread discreditive info about Ukraine and stop blaming my country and learn how it is to respect someone as well as his choice and his opinion - we will be able to communicate, listen to each other and hear each other!
Nothing personal to you, but I do not want this political conflict becomes a reason of hatred between peoples.
We can share our opinions and use the real facts in order to understand each other's point of you and try to find the truth, but we definitely should be tolerant to each other's choice and opinion. I am ready to apologise or change my opinion if there's any strong reason for it. But I do not want to be blamed and let nobody blame my country without strong reasons and evidences!
Man I live in Tajikistan. I am a Tajik guy! We all respect Putin. That's all!
Kusnetsov Wrote:Quote:I know that making an apology and accepting responsibilty is alien to the Russian mentality
You don't know Russians.
My apologies. My statement was too broad and certainly not intended to be russiaphobic. (Whether it is politically incorrect or not is totally irrelevant to me.) The logic behind it was, briefly, this: Apologies are often considered signs of weakness or vulnerability (which is why many people, not only Russians, hate to apologise.) I believe that this reluctance is more pronounced in cultures that equate respect with power, which I believe is more true than not in Russian political and business culture today. It is only an opinion, and like all opinions should be, it is subject to change as the evidence changes. But it is really quite irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.
The people of Europe were innocent bystanders in the dispute between Russia and Ukraine. They had been assured repeatedly by both the leaders of Russia and Ukraine that their gas supplies would not be affected by their bilateral dispute. Ukraine arguably broke this agreement first by not using European gas instead of its reserves to transport the gas. It did not consult Europe about this first. That was wrong. This resulted in a decrease in the gas being supplied to Europe. Even by Russias own figures, the value of the gas being diverted by Ukraine was insignificant in relation to the overall value of the gas actually being delivered to Europe. Nevertheless, Russia compounded the reduction by reducing the gas to compensate for the amount being diverted in an attempt to make Ukraine use its own gas for transit. That was wrong. Ukraine continued using European gas for transport. Wrong. Europe protested the reduction but tried to stay neutral in the dispute between Russia and Ukraine. Russia then shut-off the gas entirely -which completely changed the dynamics of the dispute. It did this without any prior conversations with its European customers. That was wrong, ethically, politically, legally and even from a purely business perspective. Period. It does not matter who started it or who was right or wrong in the dispute, it was wrong for Ukraine and Russia to make Europe suffer for a dispute that had nothing to do with it, especially after all of the assurances given to Europe. You don't make your customers suffer or pay (at least directly) for your business problems. Period.
And a note to those who are still finger pointing and playing the blame game. Not one of the facts stated here can be or is contested by either Russia or Ukraine. BOTH Russia and Ukraine have been fighting propoganda wars to assign blame but NEITHER Russia or Ukraine have publicly apologised or accepted responsibility for the effects of thier respective actions on the rest of Europe. THAT is what Europe is so angry and disgusted about. And so am I.
It's your choice! And maybe you have a strong reason for it!
But I live in Kiev and I have nothing to respect Putin for! But a lot of reasons not to respect his policy! And it is my choice!
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Guest Wrote:It's your choice! And maybe you have a strong reason for it!
But I live in Kiev and I have nothing to respect Putin for! But a lot of reasons not to respect his policy! And it is my choice! Because you have false information from US controlled media!
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As I stated previously I dislike Yushi, as he was acting as a fascist! BUT I do like Temoshenko, she is so pretty and smart! She is the best politician for Ukraine!
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Canpee Further Wrote:[Mr. Moskal, Thank you for telling us that you work in public relations for Gazprom and the Russian government. That explains what you and your coworkers are doing on this forum (and on a lot of other internet sites.) You are working. Your job is to distract, confuse, obscure, distort, spin, misrepresent and lie in order to protect Russias image. Obviously you cannot tell the truth here, even if you know the truth, which we doubt. If you did know the truth or tell the truth then you would lose your job, got to jail or get a bullet in your head like Stanislav Markelov. So we forgive you. [/size] [/quote]
Conspiracy theory is a well-known syndrom. However, every single word about the "job to distract, confuse, obscure, distort, spin, misrepresent and lie in order to protect Russias image" needs to be proven. Besides, you insulted not only me, but my colleagues.
And finally, Ukrainian Guest, maybe your own newsparer is a better source for you - facts they describe coincides with what I wrote here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2009/1/21/88199.htm">http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2009/1/21/88199.htm</a><!-- m -->[/quote]
Oй oй oй! Conspiracy theory is a well-known syndrom??? Every word has to be proven??? You have been insulted?????? Oй oй oй! You poor little boy!!! Of course, we all know that it is ok for YOU, the mighty Russian purveyor of truth, to insult everyone who disagrees with you, and, of course, it is ok for YOU, the defender of the mighty Russia, to write anything you want without any proof and it is ok for YOU, the objective Russian patriot, to write about mysterious secret agreements and western conspiracies against poor innocent Russia. But now you and your colleagues are insulted???? GROW UP AND STOP CRYING LIKE A BABY. Get a real job. But of course, to do that, you will have to emigrate, otherwise you will go to jail or get a bullet in your head like Stanislav Markelov (which probably wont kill you because you do not seem to have a brain anyway) [/quote]
To BK:
Professor, would you please comment on the above... scum, I should say (but I won't) as I wouldn't bother...
:haha Sorry my friend, but I have to stop this conversation as I prefer to discuss the matter with the real facts or figuers...I'm open to change my opinion but I do not want to spend my time listening to your bla-bla-bla again. My reasons and my opinion are the result of my wish to understand something and find the truth. You really look like a zombie...you know nothing about me, but you are sure that I was faulsy informed by US spies I think  you are unable to listen to and hear other opinions, you are unable to discuss the matter and change your opinion, so it is useless to go on talking. :banghead This dialogue is a nonsense! Again, nothing personal, but you made me think, how could Mr. Putin have deprived some people of their ability to think? :quoi
I wish you good luck and may your blind faith in Putin make your life better. No sarcasm at all. But time will show
Hmmmmm.....by the way, I like Timoshenko too and I may surely say that she's the one who do something for Ukrainians.  uper My vote was always for Yulia uper and at the moment, my choice is Yulia too!, but sorry once again, not Mr. Putin :nonnon
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Guest Wrote:Hmmmmm.....by the way, I like Timoshenko too and I may surely say that she's the one who do something for Ukrainians. uper My vote was always for Yulia uper and at the moment, my choice is Yulia too!, but sorry once again, not Mr. Putin :nonnon of course as he is not working for Ukraine! Let ask Ukrainian living in Russia whether they like Putin?!
Timoshenko is so beautiful!
"
To visit Paulo Coelho's blog (up-dated daily)
In this issue
- And the witch-hunt goes on...
And the witch-hunt goes on...
A year and a half ago I transcribed here in this column a piece of news from the CNN saying that on 31 October 2004, resorting to a feudal law that was abolished in the following month, the town of Prestopans, in Scotland, granted official pardon to 81 people – and their cats – executed for practicing witchcraft in the 16th and 17th centuries.
According to the official spokesperson for the Barons of Prestoungrange and Dolphinstoun, “most of them had been condemned without any concrete evidence – based only on witnesses for the prosecution who claimed they felt the presence of evil spirits”.
The oddest thing about this news item is that the town and the 14th Baron of Prestoungrange and Dolphinstoun are “granting pardon” to people who were brutally executed. Here we are plump in the 21st century, and those who killed innocent people still feel they have the right to “pardon”.
To my surprise, that did not bring the matter to an end.
At least according to the highly respected Reuters news agency, there still exist witches to be pardoned by the system. In a piece of news published recently, the grand-daughter of one of them has just launched a campaign for the “posthumous redemption” of Helen Duncan, a woman accused by the English during the Second World War. Duncan’s crime was to have answered, during a séance of spiritualism, a question asked by a mother desperate to know the whereabouts of her son, a member of the crew of the ship HMS Barbham. The medium stated that the ship had just sunk and that the entire crew had died.
This was true, but the fact was being kept secret so as not to affect the morale of the soldiers. The news soon spread, and reached the government. Based on a law dating from 1735, Winston Churchill ordered her arrested until the war was over.
Helen Duncan died in 1956, without ever being pardoned. Her grand-daughter, Mary Martin (now aged 72) has already even managed to have an audience with the Minister of the Interior of the Tony Blair government, but to no avail.
As I write these lines, the Baron of Prestoungrange, the same man who succeeded in obtaining the official pardon of the town of Prestopans, is directly involved in the matter, and has even opened a site to raise international support.
In the words of the Baron:
“The 300 soldiers executed for desertion during the First World War have already been pardoned. The denunciations that caused the death of a group of 20 innocent young people in Salem, Massachusetts, have already been treated with due respect. We have already apologized for trading in slaves and adopting piracy as a noble way to make the United Kingdom prosperous. What has to be done to pardon Helen Duncan?”
It is simple. In the beginning, Duncan was accused of spying. A massive investigation carried out by the government concluded that it was impossible for a woman to have access to official secrets and secret information. How, then, could she have known what had happened to the frigate HMS Barbham?
The only explanation that remains is: witchcraft. And what purpose is served by the old laws, even if they have been forgotten by a civilization that deems itself enlightened and immune to the superstitions of yore?
Their purpose is to be applied. "
As for me, beauty is not the main characteristic of Mrs. Timoshenko, although she is beautiful of course But more than this, she is smart, tolerant, diplomatic and good politican as for me...and as far as I can see the present situation in Ukraine, she is the only one of our goverment who is more or less worried about Ukraine. And I respect her for this uper And my vote will be for her again! I do not like policy of Yuschenko as well and when we had Orange revolution here, most of people went to Maidan for Yulia, but not for Yuschenko! And my strong opinion is that Yuschenko would never be elected/won if Yulia didn't support him at that time.
Moskal Wrote:BK Wrote:I suspect that Putin is beginning to realise this. It is not enough to hire public relations people to create an image. There must be substance behind the image. Putin has a chance to undo all of the damage that has been done and even to turn the anger to Russias advantage. Putin should publicly and unequivocably apologise to Europe for shutting off their gas and offer to compensate them for all of their damages. That simple act could change the world for the better .
You amaze me more and more. Are you a Law assistant professor as you claim or somewhat else. You obviously can read and understand Russian (at least) and you continue acting as an agent provocateur on this forum.
To answer your personal question, I am retired from a rather interesting career during which I have done many things, none of them particularly notable. I now teach law because I enjoy teaching.
I am much less of an agent provocateur than those who blame the problems on one country or the other or on a conspiracy involving yet other countries. In terms of the bilateral dispute between Russia and Ukraine, I have argued that both sides are wrong but from a purely legal perspective, I would favor the Ukrainian side. In terms of the dispute between Russia and Europe, I have argued here that, whatever blame Ukraine might have, Russia committed the more grievious wrong by shutting off the gas. My concrete reasons for these positions have been stated again and again. My arguments are based upon facts which are accepted as true by BOTH sides. In terms of the other underlying issue being debated here, namely, challenges to the existance and future of Ukraine, I side with Ukraine. It is, after all, where I live.
Please answer a few questions honestly (if by honesty you mean the same thing as I do - I'm not sure): (neither am I!)
1. What Gazprom has to do with Putin if not considering the fact that the government owns its controlling stake? The fact that Gazprom is government controlled and that Putin can decide whether the gas flows or not answers your question.
2. Is Gazprom the only company in the world to hire PR people? If not, please explain if it is a STANDARD PRACTICE, i.e. hiring PR services by big companies or not? As far as I know, all major companies, countries, governments and politicians everywhere use Public Relation firms. The job of a PR firm is to identify any negative problems in public perception and come up with ways to address them, i.e., change the negative public perception into a positive one. Educated people ususally view PR statements with more skepticism than, say, advertisements. Advertisers who make patently false claims and the companies they hire to do it are liable for criminal and civil prosecution. This is not true for PR firms who, aside from libel laws, can lie as much as they want for and about the product (the firm or person they represent) --as you so aptly demonstrate here.
3. If Putin (or rather the Russian government) hired PR (let's assume they did), is it the only government who uses PR, or there are other countires as well? If there are, can you name them please? (See my answer to your previous question.)
As to your usual spin (see above) - Gazprom had warned the EU long before the Ukrainian crisis that it might happen. This is simply false. Both Russia and Ukraine both assured Europe that their dispute would not affect them and Europe had absolutely no reason to suspect that their gas supply would be COMPLETELY turned off. The EU did not take any measures and preferred waiting for developents until they happened. The EU attempted to stay out of what even Putin publicly stated was a bi-lateral business dispute, this was the appropriate reaction. So, what should Gazprom apologize for and why then? If you, or Putin, or Russians in general, truly can not understand why Russia should make amends for COMPLETELY shutting off the gas to millions of Europeans in the middle of a brutal winter, then those people in Europe and the U.S. who oppose Russia have already won.
As to " changing the world for the better" the best way to achieve it is changing "for the better" the western arrogant attitude towards the rest of the world, including the Ukraine and its people btw, which is used by the west as a cannonfodder in a way.
And here again, you revert to your public relations war. Has it occurred to you that you cannot possibly win your propoganda war with such foolish statements? If you could convince someone like me by sticking only to the primary issues and using only the facts that all sides agree upon then you might have a chance. Otherwise, I can only hope that you are getting well paid for what you write here because it has absolutely no other value.
Москаль, честное слово, вы несправедливы к ВК!
Насчет извинений: будучи хорошо образованным человеком, Путин наверняка выразил сожаление по поводу сложившейся ситуации, когда главы пострадавших государств съехались в Москву.
Представляю, что я сейчас прочитаю, назвав Путина хорошо образованным. Но факт есть факт.
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"Gas war" is over. What a catastrophy for those who didn't manage to master the art of oratory and producing perfectly logical sentences (that, nonetheless, don't usually represent the reality). What a catastrophy for those who desired so much ashaming for Russia, i.e., Russian people, or Ukraine, that is Ukrainian people. For there appeared to be no winners or losers and no one died or was murdered.
Thus this topic should be shut. For ever. Because we'll always find the reason to stain each other with shit. Life goes on.
Every passing hour brings the Solar System forty-three thousand miles closer to Globular Cluster M13 in Hercules - and still there are some misfits who insist that there is no such thing as progress.
Guest Wrote:..... Путин наверняка выразил сожаление по поводу сложившейся ситуации, когда главы пострадавших государств съехались в Москву ....
Although Putin expressed sympathy for the European countries whose people were suffering, he did not apologise or accept any responsibility. In fact, Putin purportedly accused Europe and the EU in particular of being responsible because the EU did not doing enough to pressure Ukraine. Putins statements at the conference were not understood by the EU as an apology, instead, they added insult to injury. Maybe Putin did not want to insult the Europeans more, Но факт есть факт.
p.s. Moskal asked for my comments on Canpee Further's posting. On one hand, I think that it is inappropriate, although no moreso than many other things which have been written on this forum. On the other hand it was kind of funny, so who cares. (Canpee Further is a VERY funny name --and maybe an accurate description of the pissing contest that appears to be going on here!)
Kusnetsov Wrote:"Gas war" is over. What a catastrophy for those who didn't manage to master the art of oratory and producing perfectly logical sentences (that, nonetheless, don't usually represent the reality). What a catastrophy for those who desired so much ashaming for Russia, i.e., Russian people, or Ukraine, that is Ukrainian people. For there appeared to be no winners or losers and no one died or was murdered.
Thus this topic should be shut. For ever. Because we'll always find the reason to stain each other with shit. Life goes on.
Between Ukraine and Russia both there were clearly no REAL winners. The Europeans were victims. Twelve Europeans purportedly died, and, besides the human suffering, Europe lost hundreds of millions of euros because of the gas shut-off. The question now is how can Russia and or Ukraine make amends to the Europeans for what WE, both Russia and Ukraine, did to them? If we ignore this question or fail to answer it correctly then we will undoubtedly be losers in the not distance future.
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To BK
Questions like this, I'm sure, have always been remaining unanswered. It's not only about Russia and Ukraine here and now, 'tis almost about any country of the world, here and now, there and then. Too many questions, even more terrifying, have remained witout answers. A usual case.
Every passing hour brings the Solar System forty-three thousand miles closer to Globular Cluster M13 in Hercules - and still there are some misfits who insist that there is no such thing as progress.
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BK Wrote:And here again, you revert to your public relations war. Has it occurred to you that you cannot possibly win your propoganda war with such foolish statements? If you could convince someone like me by sticking only to the primary issues and using only the facts that all sides agree upon then you might have a chance. Otherwise, I can only hope that you are getting well paid for what you write here because it has absolutely no other value.
This is a foolish statement of yours, professor. I don't get paid for postings in this forum. I thought it was obvious. If you believe my statements here are propaganda it's entirely up to you.
I just pointed to double standards you are exersizing here, and that was all.
Moskal Wrote:This is a foolish statement of yours, professor. I don't get paid for postings in this forum. I thought it was obvious. If you believe my statements here are propaganda it's entirely up to you.
I just pointed to double standards you are exersizing here, and that was all.
You have pointed to my double standards, I have pointed to your distortion and omission of facts acknowleged by both sides, your appeals to privileged information, conspiracy theories and accusations without basis, not to mention logical fallacies and other insults to an educated readers intelligence. I am truly sorry that you are NOT being paid for your writings here because the alternatives, say, those implied by Canpee Furthers equally inapproprate rhetoric, are much less understandable or complementary. If it is a double-standard to point out the wrongs in BOTH Ukraine and Russias actions, to question unsupported allegations, purported facts and opinions including my own, to use facts which BOTH Ukraine and Russia agree upon, to criticise EVERYONE who abuses this forum for nonconstructive purposes, then you are completely right. Should I send you a box of chocolates?)
Kusnetsov Wrote:To BK
Questions like this, I'm sure, have always been remaining unanswered. It's not only about Russia and Ukraine here and now, 'tis almost about any country of the world, here and now, there and then. Too many questions, even more terrifying, have remained witout answers. A usual case.
I am old enough to understand and appreciate the accuracy of your remark and the cynicism that such experience can bring. But in this case, here and now, no answer to the question of accepting responsiblity and compensation Europe IS an answer that will surely have disastrous effects for Russia and Ukraine in the foreseeable future.
There are many countries who, for philosophical, historical, economic or political reasons, want to contain or limit the growth of Russian influence in the world. The U.S. is undeniably among those countries (although it methods are more subtle that the crass conspiracy theores claimed here.) The importance that the U.S. gives to containing Russia is underscored by Obama s first speech as President during which he said, "each day brings further evidence that the ways we use energy strengthen our adversaries..." It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that this is a reference to the gas-cut off and Russia. Russia has given ITs competitors and adversaries a powerful weapon that will be used against it again and again in Europe. The only way to effectively neutralise this weapon is for Russia to make significant conciliatory gestures to Europe. For Europe, the crisis may be over. For Russia, it has just begun.
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BK Wrote:Although Putin expressed sympathy for the European countries whose people were suffering, he did not apologise or accept any responsibility. In fact, Putin purportedly accused Europe and the EU in particular of being responsible because the EU did not doing enough to pressure Ukraine. Putins statements at the conference were not understood by the EU as an apology, instead, they added insult to injury. Maybe Putin did not want to insult the Europeans more, Но факт есть факт.
p.s. Moskal asked for my comments on Canpee Further's posting. On one hand, I think that it is inappropriate, although no moreso than many other things which have been written on this forum. On the other hand it was kind of funny, so who cares. (Canpee Further is a VERY funny name --and maybe an accurate description of the pissing contest that appears to be going on here!)
I just imagine if a man occused of murder (or other crime) would PUBLICLY make his appologies for what he done to the other side. Would you welcome such thing if you was his lawyer? Not to mention it would just give ground to all russophobic and prejuiced people to say " what you expected that are Russians they always quilty they ewen admited it".AND it would mean that he lied all this time to the russian people, whanever you think our democracy is he is not idiot to make such mistake (even if he was quilty). So exprassing sympathy given the situetion is enough i think.
Last but not least appologie is not sign of weakness if that who appologies does it becouse he feels quilt, if he doesnt than it is sign of weakness becouse he fears consiquencess (it could be thousands different cases but i ment something like wenn servant appologies to master becouse he gave him wrong look or something, it isnt sign of strenghth or wisdom).
So i think whanewer is trully to blame would newer admitt it, but personaly i think ALL involved(EU included and parhaps some other countrys if conspirasy thoerys are true) have thier own share of blame but no one would exept it.
And BK from your posts i have feeling that you think that US is acting in EU interests ALWAYS(parhaps you think that EU and US have no difference in national interests).I personally do not think so and EU defenetly need some independance from US but that is my opinion. ("no one would defend your interests as fierce as thier own").
Guest Wrote:... Украинский президент - беда для всех. +=======
Would you mind to be more specific? I mean - can you bring facts and evidences? Please develop and prove your statement.
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