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RusNeko Wrote:RUSSIA SUPPORTS SEPARATISM????????
You Must be joking!!
When cosovars, who killed the serbians in Cosovo, who hadn't got any historical rights to be free, ONLY RUSSIA was against!! And now, when Ossetia and Abhasia got their independence, we Had to declare them free: they cannot live united with georgians - cos georgians killed osetians and planned to kill abhazians. Am I right? Russia is not imperialistic. If Ingushetia _really_wants_ independence, if this is not the provocation - so this is their choise (but I hardly believe it). We are not Imperia, we are the Federation. USA is more imperialistic than Russia. Am I Right??
First Cosovo has historical rights to be free "maybe" as i find out from history, RUSSIA was against for freedome and know to do another strange at least.
RUSSIA SUPPORTS SEPARATISM this is way to push Georgia not go to NATO and way to destroy independence of Georgian. Putins' dream to renovation CCCP this is fact he said demolish of CCCP was big mistake of geopolitics of 20 century. I think it was perfect!
I don't know all russians view but who think CCCP is good they are in deep mistake. if USA & EU is imperi i like it and don't like Russia "democracy" 
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Neither Chechnya nor Ingushetia will never be free. Even if Russia leave them - In a year they will be under Muslim Fundamentalists rule smth like Taliban etc. In one more year USA will bomb them as USA did it in Iraq where Americans have killed 500 000 civilians bringin them their "democracy". And by the way people in chechnia in Ingushetia have never wanted to live outside of russia. Islamic terrorists wanted it. This is the difference between what happened in Ossetia and Chechnia.
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Verb Wrote:Neither Chechnya nor Ingushetia will never be free. Even if Russia leave them - In a year they will be under Muslim Fundamentalists rule smth like Taliban etc. In one more year USA will bomb them as USA did it in Iraq where Americans have killed 500 000 civilians bringin them their "democracy". And by the way people in chechnia in Ingushetia have never wanted to live outside of russia. Islamic terrorists wanted it. This is the difference between what happened in Ossetia and Chechnia.
Do you beleive in this story? How many people was killed by Russians strugling against "Terorizm"? There are far more good examples of Americans bringing democracy... Tell one example of Russia bringing sopmewhere stability and sustainability?....
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Quote:Do you beleive in this story? How many people was killed by Russians strugling against "Terorizm"?
How many would have been killed if it has not done. Do you now what they did with their own people (I mean chechen)?
Quote:There are far more good examples of Americans bringing democracy...
tell it to those 90 women and children killed recently in Afganistan.
Quote:Tell one example of Russia bringing sopmewhere stability and sustainability?....
No problem - this example is Russia. And please don't tell me about autocracy of Putin or smth like that. Russia is not the worst place for living.
by the way Abkhazia and S.Ossetia are two more examples. They are very grateful that Russia brought peace on their soil and saved their lifes and they finally can live without Georgian military attacks.
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lashachochua Wrote:Do you beleive in this story? How many people was killed by Russians strugling against "Terorizm"? There are far more good examples of Americans bringing democracy... Tell one example of Russia bringing sopmewhere stability and sustainability?....
I think there are so many georgians in Russia becouse we are that bad.
Did US support brought you stability and such? Oh but you are internaly oppresed by Russia i forgot. Our favorite intertainment is to plan georgian destruction. . And best fun is to make those plans real. .
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GIORGI wrote:
====
First Cosovo has historical rights to be free "maybe" as i find out from history, RUSSIA was against for freedome and know to do another strange at least.
RUSSIA SUPPORTS SEPARATISM this is way to push Georgia not go to NATO and way to destroy independence of Georgian. Putins' dream to renovation CCCP this is fact he said demolish of CCCP was big mistake of geopolitics of 20 century. I think it was perfect!
I don't know all russians view but who think CCCP is good they are in deep mistake. if USA & EU is imperi i like it and don't like Russia "democracy"
====
Ok, ok. Maybe you're right in some points like those:
a) I hadn't said that Russia is so democratic - no. Russia is neither democratic, nor imperialistic. But USA isn't more democratic than us, they hadn't got the right to "make" other countries "democratic". If you tell about the Putin's autocracy in our country, you must also tell about Bush's and Chaney's autocracy in USA. It's not the secret that Iceland and Ireland are most democratic republics.
b) Of course the USSR demolish was a mistake: it's not normal when such a big country destroys. I know that Georgians & Americans think that we want S Ossetia and Abkhazia to be Russian. My answer: no, never, if they don't want. In fact, it depends on rights and wishes of nations: ossetians want to be free - they now free. If ingushetians want - we will solve that question. And about Cosova: Russia was against only because serbians dying there: in free Cosova they had no chances to stay alive and no chances to return to Serbia. In fact, I'm not against the Cosovars freedom, I against killing serbians.
we don't want to reunite USSR: 20th century show that our country cannot be imperia and cannot be socialistic.
c) Nato. I know that Georgia wants in Nato, and Ukraine and Baltic countries too. But NATO is the NORTH ATLANTIC UNITY!!! Georgia is not North Atlantic country!! So why do you want this? Only to be against Russia?
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RusNeko Wrote:GIORGI wrote:
====
First Cosovo has historical rights to be free "maybe" as i find out from history, RUSSIA was against for freedome and know to do another strange at least.
RUSSIA SUPPORTS SEPARATISM this is way to push Georgia not go to NATO and way to destroy independence of Georgian. Putins' dream to renovation CCCP this is fact he said demolish of CCCP was big mistake of geopolitics of 20 century. I think it was perfect!
I don't know all russians view but who think CCCP is good they are in deep mistake. if USA & EU is imperi i like it and don't like Russia "democracy"
====
Ok, ok. Maybe you're right in some points like those:
a) I hadn't said that Russia is so democratic - no. Russia is neither democratic, nor imperialistic. But USA isn't more democratic than us, they hadn't got the right to "make" other countries "democratic". If you tell about the Putin's autocracy in our country, you must also tell about Bush's and Chaney's autocracy in USA. It's not the secret that Iceland and Ireland are most democratic republics.
b) Of course the USSR demolish was a mistake: it's not normal when such a big country destroys. I know that Georgians & Americans think that we want S Ossetia and Abkhazia to be Russian. My answer: no, never, if they don't want. In fact, it depends on rights and wishes of nations: ossetians want to be free - they now free. If ingushetians want - we will solve that question. And about Cosova: Russia was against only because serbians dying there: in free Cosova they had no chances to stay alive and no chances to return to Serbia. In fact, I'm not against the Cosovars freedom, I against killing serbians.
we don't want to reunite USSR: 20th century show that our country cannot be imperia and cannot be socialistic.
c) Nato. I know that Georgia wants in Nato, and Ukraine and Baltic countries too. But NATO is the NORTH ATLANTIC UNITY!!! Georgia is not North Atlantic country!! So why do you want this? Only to be against Russia?
Thanks, you understend imperi is not good & ressian is not democratic. But russian trying occupation again first time 1801, 1918-1921 and today we need to go to NATO to support us from aggressor like russia
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Giorgi Wrote:Thanks, you understend imperi is not good & ressian is not democratic. But russian trying occupation again first time 1801, 1918-1921 and today we need to go to NATO to support us from aggressor like russia
Dont you understand that you simply provoked Russia? You want to join NATO we see it as treat. You have pro russian regions that are asking us to recognize thier independance, they want to be our friends you want to be treat to us. choice is obvius. So you can go to NATO without those regions. Or it will be no NATO for you.
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SiD Wrote:Giorgi Wrote:Thanks, you understend imperi is not good & ressian is not democratic. But russian trying occupation again first time 1801, 1918-1921 and today we need to go to NATO to support us from aggressor like russia
Dont you understand that you simply provoked Russia? You want to join NATO we see it as treat. You have pro russian regions that are asking us to recognize thier independance, they want to be our friends you want to be treat to us. choice is obvius. So you can go to NATO without those regions. Or it will be no NATO for you.
We are pro aggressor(russian) regions you are right, about recognize of part of georgia occupation by independance of region it's recognized by russian only sorry i forget HAMAS too , shame of russian irony but someone is proud Hamas & Russian support truth
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Excuse me, I cannot find any relations between Russia and Hamas. Inform me if you find )) Or maybe you think we're terrorists?
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Giorgi Wrote:We are pro aggressor(russian) regions you are right, about recognize of part of georgia occupation by independance of region it's recognized by russian only sorry i forget HAMAS too , shame of russian irony but someone is proud Hamas & Russian support truth
And if EU and US will recognize them you will do the same?
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EU and US don't have duble standards and principles different from Russia and they never abrogate international law, so its impossible EU or other organisations to recognise them, but Russia now have to go on and recognise the minimum 5000 ethnic groups in the world and mostly in RF who demands indepedens, go on russia but don't forget to start it from inside you...
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Germany, france, italy, united states, uk, ireland, spain, netherlands, canada, portugal, sweden. They were FOR Cosova independence and were AGAINST ossetia... Isn't it the example of double standarts!? I predict your answer, russia was against cosova. But we warned the world that the precedent was created. So that's the result.
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Tamsa Wrote:EU and US don't have duble standards and principles different from Russia and they never abrogate international law, so its impossible EU or other organisations to recognise them, but Russia now have to go on and recognise the minimum 5000 ethnic groups in the world and mostly in RF who demands indepedens, go on russia but don't forget to start it from inside you...
One word Kosovo and you are wrong. Amyway question was about would it make you accept thier independence acceptance of westerm countries. I think not. So it is not about support.
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Cosovo was the only one and only different thing, so it impossible to make any comparisons...osetia and abkhazia is georgian land and whole world recognise them as a georgian territoty.
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Tamsa Wrote:Cosovo was the only one and only different thing, so it impossible to make any comparisons...osetia and abkhazia is georgian land and whole world recognise them as a georgian territoty.
You repeat american version of the situation. Actually the USA can do everything they like and everything is ok. Why Russia cannot do the same especially if it can? These are double standards of the USA, americans can break international roules, the others cannot.
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Kosovo was indeed a first step in undermining the international rules existed since the WW2. But it's not an excuse to follow suit elsewhere. Mistakes need not to be repeated, but rectified. Otherwise all countries from Turkey eastwards up to China have separatist movements, and such policy of recognizing rebel entites as states would lead to disasters.
So how about Ingushetia indeed?! This nation experienced mass expulsion (70% of all population) from Tsarist Russia in 1870s, total expulsion (100%) under the Soviet Russia in 1944 and a large-scale massacre in 1992 under the post-communist Russia for lands handed over to Ossetians by Moscow. If the independence becomes a popular national slogan, would this people after such suffering deserve the recognition from the Kremlin which 'unlike the West doesn't pursue a double-standart policy?!'
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gomboreli Wrote:Kosovo was indeed a first step in undermining the international rules existed since the WW2. But it's not an excuse to follow suit elsewhere. Mistakes need not to be repeated, but rectified. Otherwise all countries from Turkey eastwards up to China have separatist movements, and such policy of recognizing rebel entites as states would lead to disasters.
So how about Ingushetia indeed?! This nation experienced mass expulsion (70% of all population) from Tsarist Russia in 1870s, total expulsion (100%) under the Soviet Russia in 1944 and a large-scale massacre in 1992 under the post-communist Russia for lands handed over to Ossetians by Moscow. If the independence becomes a popular national slogan, would this people after such suffering deserve the recognition from the Kremlin which 'unlike the West doesn't pursue a double-standart policy?!'
Everyone is preserving thier own interests. Recognition of kosovo was mistake, challeenge to Russia and russian opportunity. So you paid price for western mistakes, congratulations. They are so supportiv now but did they thought about you previusly? Moscow warned them what recognition of Kosovo may bring but we were ignored. You are expandable for them. And remember that to gain independance S Osetia, Kosovo, Abkchazia were backed by military forces of another country. (that is about other regions seeking independance).
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If someone upsets me, I should try to make a revenge on him, not on you I guess...
And still how about Ingushetia (this is a subject anyway)? I'm wondering whether personally you'd be equally enthusiastic to support their independence or since Russia is now concerned, now you put a principle of terrotorial integrity over the right of self-determination again?
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gomboreli Wrote:If someone upsets me, I should try to make a revenge on him, not on you I guess...
And still how about Ingushetia (this is a subject anyway)? I'm wondering whether personally you'd be equally enthusiastic to support their independence or since Russia is now concerned, now you put a principle of terrotorial integrity over the right of self-determination again?
You misunderstud. its not about revenge it is about apportunity. They made precindent we used it to our advantage thats all.
Now there is no main principles for anyone. It is law of strength.
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Welcome back to a law of jungle where whoever is stronger does whatever he wants!!!
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Ok the recognition of Kosovo was mistake but why russia repeats that mistake in two regions?! now she have to recognize more then 5000 ethnic groups all aroun the world demanding indepedence !! go on but don't forget to begin it inside yoor country, where u have 27 so called '' autonomy oblasts and republics'', that people is really worthy to get independence from you, as they are inslaved and suffered over decades!
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gomboreli Wrote:Welcome back to a law of jungle where whoever is stronger does whatever he wants!!!
Surprise!!!! but laws of jungle are in force for almost 10 years, good morning to you.
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Tamsa Wrote:Ok the recognition of Kosovo was mistake but why russia repeats that mistake in two regions?! now she have to recognize more then 5000 ethnic groups all aroun the world demanding indepedence !! go on but don't forget to begin it inside yoor country, where u have 27 so called '' autonomy oblasts and republics'', that people is really worthy to get independence from you, as they are inslaved and suffered over decades!
Did US or EU recognized everyone after Kosovo?
Why then you think we would? .
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laws of jungle are in force for almost 10 years
10 years, or to be more precise almost 9, since Putin came to power, right?
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