Ingushetia Demands Independence from Russia!

[gomboreli]

Here is the list you've requested: Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria - the whole Warsaw Pact - plus Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, with two more countries lining up, all of them Moscow-satellite countries for decades at least, and several Slavic countries of the Balkans. Not enough?! Now it’s your turn to tell me who's running away from the alliance to Russia

[SiD]

Here is the list you've requested: Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria - the whole Warsaw Pact - plus Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, with two more countries lining up, all of them Moscow-satellite countries for decades at least, and several Slavic countries of the Balkans. Not enough?! Now it’s your turn to tell me who's running away from the alliance to Russia

Yeah wery close to us countries. They of course feel thier connection with Russia uh uh. Our brothers no less . I asked you about countries realy close to russian people.

We do not need anyone runing to us. Who is running to you? Does it make you bad? If someone wants our frienship he can have it.

[Faw_Peter]

I'm sure Russia can be friendly. Europe must take a loot at it from another angle. Isolating it will only add aggression.

[Karl.in.eu]

let me help you: You are suggesting that Europe should forgive Russia for its old habits - of NOT respecting the human rights.

[sektor_Gaza]

My Dear friend Lenus from Georgia!

After short victorious war, Georgia became a loser! I guess you as well! It is so clear who is generating such sick-nonsense! Your so-called "friends" from USA are finished since today! Obama rules now!

By such provoking ideas, you'll see how Chechen forces again cross the border to find you. Who is going to protect you? your Georgian US funded Army? Nope. They had already met Chechen battalion which was first who helped Ossetians. Did you know that? Nope? Saaki hadnt tell you that?

Your army ran away as fast as possible straight ahead to Tiffliss city! Beware lest you provoke others in Caucasus. :mrgreen:

[Moskal]

let me help you: You are suggesting that Europe should forgive Russia for its old habits - of NOT respecting the human rights.

Dear Karl,
Could you please specify/expand what do you mean by "respecting human rights"?

[Kusnetsov]

let me help you: You are suggesting that Europe should forgive Russia for its old habits - of NOT respecting the human rights.

Don't talk about human rights. For today it's come a phylosophical category. All over the world these human rights were torn into pieces and tossed out. And Russia didn't start it. Think deeply who doesn't really respect the human rights. Think of hypocrisy that flooded the West. For the West, not for Russia, the human rights are just a sort of mask that covers true nature of the western intensions

[BK]

Here is the list you've requested: Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria - the whole Warsaw Pact - plus Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, with two more countries lining up, all of them Moscow-satellite countries for decades at least, and several Slavic countries of the Balkans. Not enough?! Now it’s your turn to tell me who's running away from the alliance to Russia

Americans do not understand why they are so hated, and it upsets them. Russians appear not to understand that they ARE so hated, and they don't seem to give a damn. And therein lies a telling divide.

The nicks of the major players on this site are all familiar to me from other sites with similar themes. For the most part, they do not appear to be interested in constructive dialogue, nor concerned with such petty things like facts, logic, reason. or civility. But you have my compliments --and my sympathy-- for attempting a rational dialogue. !Just remember to take deep breaths and laugh at yourself once in awhile!

[Lenus]

My Dear friend Lenus from Georgia!

Yes, my dear friend Sektor_Gaza from Moscow.

After short victorious war, Georgia became a loser! I guess you as well!

Nice opening.

I am not sure if you want to understand, but the term "loser" is not as straightforward as you might think it is. For instance, when Russia plays football to Brazil, and chances are 99,9% that Russia loses, it does not make Russian team a bunch of losers. In fact if we put the two teams on ice to play a Hockey match, it wouldn't put Brazil in a position of a loser, disregarding the actual result, which is quite predictable.

To put it in Leyman's terms, you cannot be considered a loser, if you were not expected to win. So who performed above and below of its capabilities in Russo-Georgian war? Georgia was not supposed to defeat Russia! But it managed well against the Separatists (trained and equipped by Russians), Some Russian Special Forces, and few thousand Russian Troops, entering Roki Tunnel, and even managed to Wound the Army General Khrulev (Some say he is dead, but Russia does not accept the fact), and all in all Georgian Army defended its capital where Russians did not dare to enter. These are the facts.

How on earth, the Strongest Army in the world can lose so many men and its Army General at the battle with so ill-equipped and ill-trained Georgian army, this is the question that takes me by surprise and clearly makes me to suggest you to change your addressee if you want to chose to use the term "Loser" again.

It is so clear who is generating such sick-nonsense! Your so-called "friends" from USA are finished since today! Obama rules now!

What nonsense are you referring to? That Ingushetya Demands freedom? So is Tatarstan, and Chuvashya and many other regions in Russia.
BTW, Obama declared its policy towards Georgia and Ukraine will not change a bit, so hold on with the Champagne.

By such provoking ideas, you'll see how Chechen forces again cross the border to find you. Who is going to protect you? your Georgian US funded Army? Nope. They had already met Chechen battalion which was first who helped Ossetians. Did you know that? Nope? Saaki hadnt tell you that?

There is no such army as "Chechen forces". You are deliberately trying to create an illusion that this was a Chechen-Georgian conflict. Idea and strategy to make these two nations think adversely towards each other is long since on Russia's mind. No wonder only "Chechen" tanks bore identification marks. However it does not work. We know it was Russian Regular army and nobody cares who exactly you employ to conquer my country.

Your army ran away as fast as possible straight ahead to Tiffliss city! Beware lest you provoke others in Caucasus. :rgreen:

That was a good strategic move. Otherwise it would have been too sprout and disorganised. Our Army is not so large to protect the whole country from the vast attacks of Russian Red Army, so it concentrated upon protecting the capital. Only natural, it worked well, too.

We do not provoke Caucasus. Russia does. You evicted Ingushs from their land and given those territories to North Ossetians. Do you think Ingushs are full of gratitude? or they have as short memory and you want them to have? I am sure they will push for independence and I am sure you will bath them in the blood, again!

[SiD]

Lenus parhaps Sector_Gaza used the harsh words but he has right idea somewhat in general. Georgia attacked first so you can imagine it has some tactical advantage in the begining but as you yourself pointed stood no chance in the first place. You write about our casulties but give no numbers as you know there are official numbers avielable and they are not impressive. Wounded general? Well we can presume that he was wounded becouse he was with his man in the fight not sitting somewere drinking tea. To be wounded is not shame it could be sign of valor. And if you do not know the war wasnt declared so it was no need to enter Tbilisi since almost whole country is anyway in our hands . Parhaps you can call it brilliant defense but it really looks other way it looks like leaving country at mercy of offensive forcess. Looking at results it is obvius that wenn Georgia attacked S Osetia someone hoped that Russia just leave it be and do nothing or some person just greatly overestimate his own strength or he even didnt cared just folloved instructions parhaps we will newer know but fact is fact, war was quick and Georgia lost territories do not know who really gained from all this but georgian people surely lost.

[Lenus]

SiD,

There was no element of surprise for Tskhinvali, if you mean that. There were at least couple of weeks shootings before the full escalation of the conflict took place.

Our policemen killed and wounded, about 9 Ossetians shot by Snipers, so on and so on.

Russia wished to pacify Georgian Army by unofficial military units and official "no-insignia" soldiers from Special Forces, but these attempts failed, therefore they had to intrude with heavy artillery and aviation.

As to numbers... I have many stories fromt he battleground to believe, that both sides undermine their number of casualties, and that includes Russians too.

Army general is not supposed to be so vulnerable in a modern army. If he was killed, "he fought with his men" wouldn't have been a proper excuse. Professional Army, unless cought by surprise and by overwhelming number of enemy forces, must protect its Leader as a first priority. If an army is not capable of doing so, the battle is considered to be lost by planning, however not by result in some cases.

Russia did not need Country, it needed SaakaShvili. And this person was in Tbilisi, so attacking the capital would enable Russians to either capture him, or make him flee - both cases would have turned out to be favourable outcome for Russians.

[SiD]

SiD,

There was no element of surprise for Tskhinvali, if you mean that. There were at least couple of weeks shootings before the full escalation of the conflict took place.

Our policemen killed and wounded, about 9 Ossetians shot by Snipers, so on and so on.

Russia wished to pacify Georgian Army by unofficial military units and official "no-insignia" soldiers from Special Forces, but these attempts failed, therefore they had to intrude with heavy artillery and aviation.

As to numbers... I have many stories fromt he battleground to believe, that both sides undermine their number of casualties, and that includes Russians too.

Army general is not supposed to be so vulnerable in a modern army. If he was killed, "he fought with his men" wouldn't have been a proper excuse. Professional Army, unless cought by surprise and by overwhelming number of enemy forces, must protect its Leader as a first priority. If an army is not capable of doing so, the battle is considered to be lost by planning, however not by result in some cases.

Russia did not need Country, it needed SaakaShvili. And this person was in Tbilisi, so attacking the capital would enable Russians to either capture him, or make him flee - both cases would have turned out to be favourable outcome for Russians.

By element of surprise i mean that just half of day or so before that it was agreed to find peacefull solution and negotietions has to take place, not to mention olimpic games and Saakashvilis promises so i think it is obvius surprise that he started this.

Sparadic shots were not something uncommon for the region and shots were performed from both sides.

There could be many wersions of casulties so i prefer official ones since it is hard to prove all others.
You arent right about general. Do you know specifics (not rumors or speculations) about how he was wounded? I do not, but obviusly logistickly terrain was very hard so he might deside to be in place to properly control fight. I understand why you want to present it as some kind of victory but it has no consiquencess to result of war so it could be seen like act of valor from officer or unfortunate event, even as temporarly setback but not of real meaning betwen victory and defeat.

Who needed Saakashvili? to make him hero? No way, his person is meaningless parhaps his paranoya forced him to defend his "humble person" with all he got but he is replacable. Besides to attack major city would mean real war and big casulties among civilians, do you think he is worth it? Parhaps he thought so or want to show it but he is not worth the price to pay for his hide. It is far more favorable to allow georgian people to make judgment for themselves if he really served georgian interests.

[Guest]

Ingushetia demands Independence from Russia.

Now, its very interesting how will Russia, being a promoter of Inependence of Other Coutnries regions, will react to such request.

Indeed, there are already some steps taken:

Russian Opposition Leader Killed In Police Custody
September 2nd, 2008

Hundreds of people took to the streets of Ingushetia, one of Russia’s southern republics, after an opposition leader and businessman was shot and killed while in police custody.

Magomed Yevloyev, a fierce critic of Ingush President Murat Zyazikov, was detained Sunday as he landed in Nazran, Ingushetia’s main city. Police claimed that he tried to resist arrest, and was shot in the ensuing scuffle. Yevloyev’s attorney, meanwhile, said his client went peacefully into custody, and that he was shot while driving with police, and thrown from the car near a hospital. The opposition figure died while receiving care.

Yevloyev was the owner of an online news portal, Ingushetiya.ru, which was known for independent news and reporting from the republic. The website aired many views critical of the current Ingush administration, and reported on government corruption. Authorities had repeatedly targeted the site, which was branded “extremist” and ordered shut by a City Court in June. Its editor-in-chief, Roza Malsagova, fled Russia to seek political asylum in France after a number of politically-motivated criminal cases were launched against her. Malsagova said she had received threats from officials.

Ingushetia, which has a predominantly Muslim population, has experienced rising levels of violent crime, with frequent attacks on militsiya and security officials. Zyazikov’s administration has responded with a heavy hand, and has been accused of using excessive force against civilians and opposition activists.

A number of rights organizations, including Human Rights Watch, the Moscow Helsinki Group and Memorial, have called for a full investigation of Yevloyev’s death.

Local activists, meanwhile, said that Zyazikov may be directly involved. Yevloyev’s relatives have apparently called for a blood feud against Zyazikov and Ingush Interior Minister Musa Medov, vowing to avenge Yevloyev’s death.

Ingushetiya.ru continues to publish material, and has relocated its servers to the United States.

–

Further reading:

Ingushetiya.ru editor-in-chief Roza Malsagova accuses Murat Zyazikov of direct involvement in Magomed Yevloyev’s death in an open letter, published on the website.

An Open Letter to Murat Zyazikov, President of Ingushetia

Appealing to a murderer, whether an Ingush or the president of the republic, who shoots his own citizens in broad daylight, is immoral. There is no doubt that it was precisely you who gave the order for yet another extrajudicial execution. Doing this, you wanted to silence us, if you could, as during the times of the inquisition, you would have poured molten tin in our throats. I, the “commissar in a leather jacket,” as you deemed to call me, am telling you that God’s court will surely judge you. For every drop of spilt blood in the republic, you will have to answer before the Almighty, but first – before the Ingush, and if there are still men on this earth, first you will stand before them. Unlike you, Yevloyev was never a coward, he didn’t hide, he didn’t run away through back-door pathways. When militsiya officers were being shot, he didn’t hole up in the “President-hotel,” tucking in his rat’s tail. Giving interviews left and right about the “land of inter-ethnic friendship” and the “investment potential,” you assert that you know nothing about contract killings in the republic. Name at least one solved murder during the years of your tyrannical rule. What, did they solve the murders of the six-year-old Rakhim Amriev, Apti Dolakov, Kalimatov, Yandiev, Chakhkiev?.. Hundred have been killed during the time of your “rule,” with no one found responsible, with no killers. Only “terrorists” and “members of armed gangs!” Yevloyev wasn’t yet 37, and he leaves three small children, two of them sons!

If you still had something human in you, you would have at least though of them, before orphaning young children. “I am not saying that a blood feud is good, but it is a deterrent. It’s simply that if a person goes for it, he knows very well what he’s doing. Of course, it’s difficult afterwards for people to let him alone without a reaction, but none the less, there is no accidental moment.” (“Conversation without rules” [a Russian television show], featuring Ingush President Murat Zyazikov.) I think that you realized what you were heading toward, when you made the order to execute Yevloyev!

The independent Ingushetiya.ru news portal will continue its work in its current state until Zyazikov shoots us all, or until he is removed. There is no alternative.

Magomed Yevloyev will be put into the ground on the first day of the holy month of Ramadan.

Roza Malsagova, editor-in-chief of the independent Ingushetiya.ru internet-portal.

I am thinking here on this forum must be some posters from Russia that are getting paid to post.
Too many times I have seen original post being hijacked . This POST IS ABOUT INGUSHETIA SO STOP SIDE TRACKING.

[FUtoRu]

Ingushetia demands Independence from Russia.

Now, its very interesting how will Russia, being a promoter of Inependence of Other Coutnries regions, will react to such request.

I am thinking here on this forum must be some posters from Russia that are getting paid to post.
Too many times I have seen original post being hijacked . This POST IS ABOUT INGUSHETIA SO STOP SIDE TRACKING.

Yes, you are right. Not just here but it seems like the same are on DOZENS of sites. There are a group of people who work for a russian public relations firm that are paid to put the official Russian spin on discussion sites. When the spinners face real criticisms or challenges that they cannot answer then they try to change the subject or fill the site with irrelevant articles or engage in childish stupidities that make people stop discussing what Russia does not want discussed in public. They have been flooding chat sites and engaging in this internet war systematically ever since the invasion of Georgia. So, do you think that Russia SHOULD grant Ingushetia independence?

[Guest]

Ingushetia demands Independence from Russia.

Now, its very interesting how will Russia, being a promoter of Inependence of Other Coutnries regions, will react to such request.

I am thinking here on this forum must be some posters from Russia that are getting paid to post.
Too many times I have seen original post being hijacked . This POST IS ABOUT INGUSHETIA SO STOP SIDE TRACKING.

Yes, you are right. Not just here but it seems like the same are on DOZENS of sites. There are a group of people who work for a russian public relations firm that are paid to put the official Russian spin on discussion sites. When the spinners face real criticisms or challenges that they cannot answer then they try to change the subject or fill the site with irrelevant articles or engage in childish stupidities that make people stop discussing what Russia does not want discussed in public. They have been flooding chat sites and engaging in this internet war systematically ever since the invasion of Georgia. So, do you think that Russia SHOULD grant Ingushetia independence?

If Ingushetia has a referenum and most poeple want out then yes. But it will never happened because tanks will roll and Mother Russia wil come to the rescue of russians in ingushetia

[Lenus]

It is far more favorable to allow georgian people to make judgment for themselves if he really served georgian interests.

Well, let's start from your great words of wisdom towards the Georgian People and apply all this back to the Topic of Ingushetia.

Do you personally believe, Ingushs want to be the part of the Country that destroyed them in a provoked war with Ossetians? Why did the central government take sides in that conflict? Why Ingushs are still in excile from their homes and live as Refugees when the peacekeeper and negotiator was Russia itself and both Republics were and still are part of Russia?!

What does your government do exactly to rectify the truth and justice for the Ingush refugees? And finally, why Russia took away the part of Ingushetia for North Ossetia???

What kind of Justice is that? Do you honestly believe you can hide the anger and wrath of Ingushs towards Russian Federation? You cannot.

[SiD]

Well, let's start from your great words of wisdom towards the Georgian People and apply all this back to the Topic of Ingushetia.

Do you personally believe, Ingushs want to be the part of the Country that destroyed them in a provoked war with Ossetians? Why did the central government take sides in that conflict? Why Ingushs are still in excile from their homes and live as Refugees when the peacekeeper and negotiator was Russia itself and both Republics were and still are part of Russia?!

What does your government do exactly to rectify the truth and justice for the Ingush refugees? And finally, why Russia took away the part of Ingushetia for North Ossetia???

What kind of Justice is that? Do you honestly believe you can hide the anger and wrath of Ingushs towards Russian Federation? You cannot.

I can apply, there are legal ways to change local administration you know so we have applied havent we?
For official information you can look out for yourself but since you will discount it as lies anyway i do not want to bother.
And what "justice" you would expect huh? If world was based on justice it would be far better place than it is.

[Lenus]

And what "justice" you would expect huh? If world was based on justice it would be far better place than it is.

So, in other words, they deserve returning to their homes, but Russia would not grant it, as the whole world is not perfect?

Thanks for the thrillingly clear explanation on Russian perception on justice, though.

[SiD]

So, in other words, they deserve returning to their homes, but Russia would not grant it, as the whole world is not perfect?

Thanks for the thrillingly clear explanation on Russian perception on justice, though.

You re welcome. You simplify things "a little", difficult problems usually do not have simple solution. Your perspective is narrow one becouse you do not take into consideration consiquencess. And of course you think that just kick into but and order to get out people who now live in desputed territory is very just? This world isnt perfect and one must be carefull with such problems if he do not intend to create conflict.

[Tamara_Georgia Girl]

I wonder is this topic still active?? what is the situation right now in Ingushetia can anybody explane??

[Steven]

Medvedev recently (on January 22) visited Ingushetia. He promised to assign 1 billion dollars for Ingushetia's budget, but people are very skeptical about that.

[Guest]

So, in other words, they deserve returning to their homes, but Russia would not grant it, as the whole world is not perfect?

Thanks for the thrillingly clear explanation on Russian perception on justice, though.

You re welcome. You simplify things "a little", difficult problems usually do not have simple solution. Your perspective is narrow one becouse you do not take into consideration consiquencess. And of course you think that just kick into but and order to get out people who now live in desputed territory is very just? This world isnt perfect and one must be carefull with such problems if he do not intend to create conflict.

SID you are so full of crap I can't belive it. DDo you actually belive in the bull shit that comes out of your mouth? (and learn to spell it is BECAUSE NOT "BECOSE) IDIOT.

[Lenus]

So, in other words, they deserve returning to their homes, but Russia would not grant it, as the whole world is not perfect?

Thanks for the thrillingly clear explanation on Russian perception on justice, though.

You re welcome. You simplify things "a little", difficult problems usually do not have simple solution. Your perspective is narrow one becouse you do not take into consideration consiquencess. And of course you think that just kick into but and order to get out people who now live in desputed territory is very just? This world isnt perfect and one must be carefull with such problems if he do not intend to create conflict.

SiD,

The people living in other people's houses are illegally moved there, by a silent go-ahead of Russian Government.

If there was enough will to settle the conflict, the whole issue would have been resolved. But, as they say, nothing is easy for the unwilling mind.

[SiD]

SID you are so full of crap I can't belive it. DDo you actually belive in the bull shit that comes out of your mouth? (and learn to spell it is BECAUSE NOT "BECOSE) IDIOT.

Try to use gray matter in your head not gray matter from someones back place on your tounge to make your posts and parhaps they will be like posts from imbiciele, it will be huge improvement.

[SiD]

SiD,

The people living in other people's houses are illegally moved there, by a silent go-ahead of Russian Government.

If there was enough will to settle the conflict, the whole issue would have been resolved. But, as they say, nothing is easy for the unwilling mind.

What people and what houses. You know that if someone illigaly moves into my house i just call police and they are moved off. You know it is LEGAL way to remove ILLIGALY moved in people.
Parhaps i missunderstood you earlier? You are speaking about Ingushetian refugees that were deportated by Stalin and now it become conflict between Ingushs and Osetians becouse part of Ingushetia was populated by Osetians?