now press-conference premier-minister of ukraine and eurocomissar has finished
they make clear all information concerning situation:
now contract means direct contract beetween "Gasprom and ukrainian"Naftogas"without any mediator company "Rosukrenergo",also for this year the middle price will be 228 dollars for Ukraine what means reducion 20%from market price,and old low price 1.7 for transit ,and from 10 o'clock there is start of normal work and no more crisis
the special mention for that the transort sistem of Ukaine is property of Ukraine
and special mention about transparent and complex sistem of functioning business relation beetwen russia and ukraine,and also stabile work becouse contract is signed for ten years,and for european customers it means there is less worries about political issues in here and market relations
european comissar is very grateful to Ukrainian premier-minister and conglatulates ukraine with that
also there are journalists asked questions,and european comissar confirms that there is no information about any unlegal removal of gas of european customers,and that He has clear information about statistics,
Premier-minister added that partnership with European Union is a goal of Ukraine and there is no political meaning in marketing process of transport of gas
P.S.Reply for muschamp
I AM Ukrainian.How can i,honest ukrainian person ,and i have to believe You that i take your gas free without any provement?while i pay bills for Russian gas,which means that i am Your customer too,the same as europeans.It appears a question  oes Russia is ready for market rules?
Now,about personal:my Father is 68 years old ,He woked all his life for Soviet union in area of sistem of driving for space,and HE IS STILL WORKING NOW in ORDER TO PAY A BILLS,HE TEACHES IN THE UNIVERSITY.and how can i tell HIM WHAT i read that HE STEALS?now i start to hate RUSSIANs,but i still not believe that RUssian can write this,i think it is a team of special politics for "information"war
I ADMIRED GREAT RUSSIAN MUSICIANS,WRITERS,Scholars,
when on NEW YEAR I DISCOVER THAT ALL WORLD READS that I AM A A TERRORIST AND I STEAL,I HAD STARTED RUSSIAN POLITICS,not RUssian people.....I WOUDN"T SAY ABUT HUMANITY AND LOVE IF I WOULD HATE AN PEOPLE....WE Have hard life becuse of legacy of Soviet Union,and first of all in mind of people.
muschamp Wrote:Ukrainian
May be I don't understand your situation, or may be I do. I am not young, I have seen revolutions before. When I get a Gas bill, no one ask me if I am communist capitalist socialist of Fascist, they only want to know about my ability to pay for gas, as a westerner I always look for profit. Anyone from the west is looking for profit, we cant help it.
The idea that you have to look to the west does not make sense to me, how does that pay bills in Ukraine in the short or long term. The revolution that you say that you are having in Ukraine is meaning less if you don't have money. You have mentioned a number of Russian dissidence's, as i recall the west gave them some money for complaining, I have no politics except finding better ways to make myself rich. Politics and politicians come and go. It is a good thing to stand up to the Russians to get a better deal for Ukraine's pipelines, it's good business. Russians are like any one else who are trying to make money, they need pipelines to carry their gas, Ukraine has them, and they want to control them if they can, why not. You should stop worrying about the west and start working out how to get some of the money that is being earned in the industry.
You say that Ukraine is not just a machine for Russian gas, and that there are people there. It is to late to say that, you have something of strategic importance to the Russian's the West and the US, that means bombs, and guns on both sides of your border weather you want them there or not. With such a large Russian population it is not practical to talk about EU membership, both party's have the wrong motive for wanting you with them. You seem to think having to renegotiate a transit fee every year is a bad thing, this is quite normal in the west, and is in your interest to do it year by year. When the recession ends Gas prices will triple, so should your transit fee, it is business. Don't let any one turn it into politics, they just want a discount, I wouldn't give them any, you are not ready for the western rules yet. No one cares how cold it is in Ukraine, or how bad it is for your factory's, you have to care yourself. You do that by standing your ground when faced with people who say that they want to be your friend without paying a transit fee for your facilities, they would have to pay me. I don,t want what they are selling.
I would not call my self tough, but if you are a typical Ukrainian, you would not survive in the west, all signs of weakness is something that we would take advantage of not sympathize with. The rights that you have is the same for every one else Russians as well, they are limited to what you can define with your own mussel's. The Russians wouldn't dare cut of my Gas again, they know who I am. I pay my bills with money, and I don't take rubbish.
You seem to have a lot of time to hate Russians. I hate no one, I always try to exploit them.
I have met Russians and Poles before, I am not sure about Ukrainian's I didn't ask them where they are from.
I don't know any of Yushenko's policy's or the opposition party's way of thinking so I cannot vote. If he is involved with the US, under Bush, you have nothing to gain in the short or long term. I live here. AM Ukrainian.How can i,honest ukrainian person ,and i have to believe You that i take your gas free without any provement?while i pay bills for Russian gas,which means that i am Your customer too,the same as europeans.It appears a question oes Russia is ready for market rules?
Now,about personal:my Father is 68 years old ,He woked all his life for Soviet union in area of sistem of driving for space,and HE IS STILL WORKING NOW in ORDER TO PAY A BILLS,HE TEACHES IN THE UNIVERSITY.and how can i tell HIM WHAT i read that HE STEALS?now i start to hate RUSSIANs,but i still not believe that RUssian can write this,i think it is a team of special politics for "information"war
I ADMIRED GREAT RUSSIAN MUSICIANS,WRITERS,Scholars,
when on NEW YEAR I DISCOVER THAT ALL WORLD READS that I AM A A TERRORIST AND I STEAL,I HAD STARTED RUSSIAN POLITICS,not RUssian people.....I WOUDN"T SAY ABUT HUMANITY AND LOVE IF I WOULD HATE AN PEOPLE....WE Have hard life becuse of legacy of Soviet Union,and first of all in mind of people.
sektor_Gaza Wrote:Dear Friend,
I did enjoyed reading your post. It is the best. I could really see your wisdom. Many thanks! AM Ukrainian.How can i,honest ukrainian person ,and i have to believe You that i take gas free without any provement?while i pay bills for Russian gas,which means that i am Your customer too,the same as europeans.It appears a question oes Russia is ready for market rules?
Now,about personal:my Father is 68 years old ,He woked all his life for Soviet union in area of sistem of driving for space,and HE IS STILL WORKING NOW in ORDER TO PAY A BILLS,HE TEACHES IN THE UNIVERSITY.and how can i tell HIM WHAT i read that HE STEALS?now i start to hate RUSSIANs,but i still not believe that RUssian can write this,i think it is a team of special politics for "information"war
I ADMIRED GREAT RUSSIAN MUSICIANS,WRITERS,Scholars,
when on NEW YEAR I DISCOVER THAT ALL WORLD READS that I AM A A TERRORIST AND I STEAL,I HAD STARTED RUSSIAN POLITICS,not RUssian people.....I WOUDN"T SAY ABUT HUMANITY AND LOVE IF I WOULD HATE AN PEOPLE....WE Have hard life becuse of legacy of Soviet Union,and first of all in mind of people.
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[/quote]
No. This is based upon a very naive if not childish understanding of fundamental human nature and the meaning of respect. People respect what they value and want for themselves. They destroy what they fear.[/quote]
My dear BK! How many times westerners will hit this wall of there own limitation of understanding, that in the world exist many different type of peoples view point regarding fundamental human nature. You, westerners think, that freedom and law are fundamental human nature. But we, asians, thinking, that autority and power are fundamental human nature.
So, if you will try to impose your values on asians, there will be two result. First - complete degradation of asians - Ukraine and Georgia example. Second - you will get a huge blow from asians - Russia and China example. Why dont you see, guys, we are different.
i had never heard about"Rosukrenergo"etc,before this New Year,and I DON"T WANT TO know about it,
i want to pay my bills and to provide normal life.
I STOPPED my normal life and i started to post in here.
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Quote:Kiev - Siphoning of Russian gas moving to Europe by Ukraine was not taking place, a European Union official said Tuesday. "We do not have any information that Ukraine performed unsanctioned siphoning of (Russian natural gas earmarked for Europe) after December 31," said Andris Piebalgs, the European Union's Energy Commissioner, at a Kiev press conference.
Piebalgs' remarks came on the first day of a resumption of Russian natural gas shipments to Ukraine, cut off at the end of 2008 over a series of Russo-Ukrainian disputes, among them Russian allegations that Ukraine had stolen Russian gas in the past.
Gazprom Vice Chairman Aleksander Medvedev at a Moscow press conference called Ukrainian theft of Russian gas prior to 2009 "an established fact," and said his company reserved the right to sue Ukraine for compensation.
Ukrainian officials throughout Europe's recent gas crisis have said they stole no Russian gas.
Russia re-opened its gas taps into Ukraine's gas pipeline system early on Tuesday, after talks between the leaders of the Russian and Ukrainian governments in Moscow over the weekend.
Minor rises in gas export volumes had been detected at Ukraine's Slovakian and Hungarian borders by Tuesday afternoon, with a return of full pre-crisis flow volumes expected on Wednesday.
NO COMMENTS!
Hello to all Russian provocators and liers!
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KIEV, Jan 20 (Reuters) - The European Union's energy commissioner, Andris Piebalgs, reassured Ukraine on Tuesday that its row with Russia over gas supplies would not harm Brussels's relations with Kiev.
"I am sure this issue will not affect EU-Ukrainian relations," he told a news briefing alongside Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. (Writing by Maria Golovnina; Editing by Ron Popeski)
now press-conference premier-minister of ukraine and eurocomissar has finished
they make clear all information concerning situation:
now contract means direct contract beetween "Gasprom and ukrainian"Naftogas"without any mediator company "Rosukrenergo",also for this year the middle price will be 228 dollars for Ukraine what means reducion 20%from market price,and old low price 1.7 for transit ,and from 10 o'clock there is start of normal work and no more crisis
the special mention for that the transort sistem of Ukaine is property of Ukraine
and special mention about transparent and complex sistem of functioning business relation beetwen russia and ukraine,and also stabile work becouse contract is signed for ten years,and for european customers it means there is less worries about political issues in here and market relations
european comissar is very grateful to Ukrainian premier-minister and conglatulates ukraine with that
also there are journalists asked questions,and european comissar confirms that there is no information about any unlegal removal of gas of european customers,and that He has clear information about statistics,
Premier-minister added that partnership with European Union is a goal of Ukraine and there is no political meaning in marketing process of transport of gas.
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EU's Piebalgs: gas row will not harm EU-Ukraine ties
KIEV, Jan 20 (Reuters) - The European Union's energy commissioner, Andris Piebalgs, reassured Ukraine on Tuesday that its row with Russia over gas supplies would not harm Brussels's relations with Kiev.
"I am sure this issue will not affect EU-Ukrainian relations," he told a news briefing alongside Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. (Writing by Maria Golovnina; Editing by Ron Popeski)
AM Ukrainian.How can i,honest ukrainian person ,and i have to believe You that i take gas free ?while i pay bills for Russian gas,which means that i am Your customer too,the same as europeans.It appears a question oes Russia is ready for market rules?
Now,about personal:my Father is 68 years old ,He woked all his life for Soviet union in area of sistem of driving for space,and HE IS STILL WORKING NOW in ORDER TO PAY A BILLS,HE TEACHES IN THE UNIVERSITY.and how can i tell HIM WHAT i read that HE STEALS?now i start to hate RUSSIANs,but i still not believe that RUssian can write this,i think it is a team of special politics for "information"war
I ADMIRED GREAT RUSSIAN MUSICIANS,WRITERS,Scholars,
when on NEW YEAR I DISCOVER THAT ALL WORLD READS that I AM A A TERRORIST AND I STEAL,I HAD STARTED RUSSIAN POLITICS,not RUssian people.....I WOUDN"T SAY ABUT HUMANITY AND LOVE IF I WOULD HATE RUSSIAN PEOPLE....WE Have hard life becuse of legacy of Soviet Union,and first of all in mind of people.
i had never heard about"Rosukrenergo"etc,before this New Year,and I DON"T WANT TO know about it,
i want to pay my bills and to provide normal life.
I STOPPED my normal life and i started to post in here.
AM Ukrainian.How can i,honest ukrainian person ,and i have to believe You that i take gas free ?while i pay bills for Russian gas,which means that i am Your customer too,the same as europeans.It appears a question oes Russia is ready for market rules?
Now,about personal:my Father is 68 years old ,He woked all his life for Soviet union in area of sistem of driving for space,and HE IS STILL WORKING NOW in ORDER TO PAY A BILLS,HE TEACHES IN THE UNIVERSITY.and how can i tell HIM WHAT i read that HE STEALS?now i start to hate RUSSIANs,but i still not believe that RUssian can write this,i think it is a team of special politics for "information"war
I ADMIRED GREAT RUSSIAN MUSICIANS,WRITERS,Scholars,
when on NEW YEAR I DISCOVER THAT ALL WORLD READS that I AM A A TERRORIST AND I STEAL,I HAD STARTED RUSSIAN POLITICS,not RUssian people.....I WOUDN"T SAY ABUT HUMANITY AND LOVE IF I WOULD HATE RUSSIAN PEOPLE....WE Have hard life becuse of legacy of Soviet Union,and first of all in mind of people.
i had never heard about"Rosukrenergo"etc,before this New Year,and I DON"T WANT TO know about it,
i want to pay my bills and to provide normal life.
I STOPPED my normal life and i started to post in here.
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My 2 cents considering corruption in developed democratic and developing countries.
I believe scale of corruption in upper level of power is about equal in both cases. It is almost impossible to stay uncorrupted when dealing with such amounts of money and power. Temptation to use it for own benefit is too strong to handle. The difference is what developed countries had enough time to form public opinion, what corruption is grave and severely punishable offence. So corruption is limited to levels where it either too small to be noticed by public, or too large, so corrupted people are able to manipulate public opinion through massmedia. On top of that, in this countries art of manipulation is so well developed that usually there is no need to use obsolette and more blunt means of manupulation. Also those, who were stupid/unlucky enough to expose themselves are quickly discarded.
Developing countries still haven't developed such public opinion so corruption is present on all levels of society, especially on levels where it is easy to notice. These countries also still haven't excelled in manipulating of public opinion, so those in power often use old and well-tried techniques of enforcement.
Now back to Ukraine-Russia gas conflict.
I believe it started as commercial conflict, at least on side of Russia. Gasprom just was going to trade for profit. But Ukraine gave him reason to tighten grip and I believe, what initially transit pipe was closed by Ukraine. Maybe it really was somewhat due to technical reasons, as Ukraine was unable to extract gas from their gas storages quickly enough to ensure full power of all plants, heating of residental areas and full power of transit pipes even if they had enough gas in their storages to operate everything for few months. If it obliged its responsibilities as transit country, Ukraine would've had to stop half of its industry. No sane politic would do so - it would be suicide. This situation could've been avoided if Ukrainian politics were wise enough to sign new contract before New Year, but they were too buzy fighting each other and also hoped they could get some benefits out of probable conflict. So initial blame on conflict is entirely lays on Ukrainian politics, they put Ukraine in dire situation themselves. Gasprom's actions were harsh, but justified. And I was fully supporting its actions until agreement to place EU and Russian observers on Ukrainian gas stations was reached. Yes, Ukraine didn't gave full access to Russian and even to EU observers whatever their reasons were (maybe they didn't wanted them to get clear evidences what Ukraine was really stealing gas out of export pipes) but I believe EU observers had enough access to find it if Ukraine would try to do it again.
I believe Gasprom should've started trying to pump full amount of gas when observers were in place, not only through single route (BTW, this is really export route, one of those widely used when Ukrainian GTS was in nominal mode, not reverse one). I believe this was when politics on Russian side came into action. What was reason - don't know. Maybe Putin was trying to ensure Yushenko won't be elected on next term and with luck impeached... lately he became completely unreasonable, unlike Timoshenko, who wants pragmatic relations with Russia while being pro-western politic.
So what is the ultimate outcome, except what now both Ukrainan and EU consumers are finally got their gas.
Gasprom benefits:
First, Gasprom won't loose money in first half of 2009th as it would've been if Ukraine agreed on fixed price of 250$ for whole year, which is less, than price of gas from Turkmenistan for first quarter of 2009 and probably would've been less, that price for second quarter.
Second, Gasprom won't loose more money from EU customers.
Third, construction of North and South Streams will be boosted which will increase Gasprom benefits in medium term as Ukraine lost its credit as transiting country.
4th - Intermediaries between Gasprom and Naftogas removed.
5th - Gas price for Ukraine will reach European level 1 year earlier, than initially expected, plus it will be renewed each quarter of year, which means less losses when oil and gas prices will start to grow again.
Gasprom losses:
1st. Average price for gas to Ukraine will be less, than he offered initially, which means he will loose some money this year.
2nd. Loss of reputation as gas supporter, which means construction of Nabucco pipe will be sped up as well.
Also it could mean EU will turn more attention to Iran and Norvegian gas supplies.
3rd. It is not clear whether $680M penalties, price of stolen gas and commercial losses during dispute will be ever paid and if will be - when. Timoshenko claims those penalties will be forfeited, I didn't saw any Gasprom comments yet. I suppose 680M penalty would be demanded by Gazprom from RUE, not from Naftogas. RUE would have to deal with Naftogas itself, of course, but that would be another story...
Political outcome:
I believe Yushenko's chances to re-elect a now close to zero. with Timoshenko directly controlling Naftogas and removal of Yushenko's controlled RosUkrEnergo. He lost some trust credit as well as money source.
Maybe Iran's quota on gas will be increased over time to have several different gas supplies to reduce probable risks.
Too bad I can freely read only English sources, and BBC/CNN/Guardian are pro-american sources, but I believe this conflict added to anti-Russian sentiments in whole Europe, not just English-speaking part as well as in US.
That Guest Again
Unregistered
Jogosh Wrote:Loss of reputation (for Gazprom) as gas supporter, which means construction of Nabucco pipe will be sped up as well.Also it could mean EU will turn more attention to Iran and Norvegian gas supplies. Exactly so. See also Moskal's comments.
Jogosh Wrote:.Political outcome:I believe Yushenko's chances to re-elect a now close to zero. It's not the only time when Yushenko has to "restores" his chances. He is a skilful restorer :banghead
Jogosh Wrote:.Maybe Iran's quota on gas will be increased over time to have several different gas supplies to reduce probable risks. Money can do everything -- it can even change the US attitude to Iran.
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Ukrainian Wrote:i had never heard about"Rosukrenergo"etc,before this New Year,and I DON"T WANT TO know about it,
i want to pay my bills and to provide normal life.
I STOPPED my normal life and i started to post in here.
Wellcome to the club!!!
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Quote:If you scare of something - you respect it.
Ha-ha-ha... I'm not afraid of lonely Russia who stands against the World and has no friends, no allies. Russia is surrounded by hostile countries except the vassal Belorus may be. It's not good position when waiting a digger strike from everywhere.
And I don't respect this humble country at all. The new cold war waits to happen and it's outcomes are too obvious. Soviet Union lost the batlle with all republics and Warsaw agreement. The lonely hatred betrayed Russia will finish it's days pretty soon.
However, let's see.This process promises to be interesting, yep. 
Few clients$ at PR firms provide insider information to their PR people.; quite the opposite is usually true since the ability to find any dirty laundy known to the public is one of your functions. In any case, as you acknowledge, you are by profession a "spin doctor" and even if I believed that, better informed does not mean that a person is either more objective or honest.
1. I have always been clear about the fact that Ukraine will be paying under $250 for gas ing 2009. -my concern was that you were not, since you stressed the 1st qtr price and failed to note that Ukraine would be paying less than the supposedly generous offer of $250 made by Russia.
2. RUE was established under pressure from USchenko.. (It is simply childish, an insult to both countries and an undeserved compliment to Yushenko to call him USchenko.) As for the claim itself, please forgive my skepticism but just how was an inept lame duck President like Yushenko able to PRESSURE Russia into agreeing to fund corruption in Ukraine? Russian use of bribes and such corrupt intermediaries is well known. If you do not know about it then I suggest you ask your clients, or do some independent reseach. You can start with Transparency International.
3. Yes Russia did compromize on the transit. Thank you for conceding this. ... The Ukraine was the last country with whom Gazprom has had Soviet type relationship - just think, why? - Not Belorussia, Armenia or any other traditional ally to Russia, but the Ukkraine. Your use of the expression soviet-type relations is thought provoking but the answer to your question does not require much thought: Only Ukraine has massive gas storage and pipelines, transports 80% of European gas and, for now, hosts one of Russias most strategic naval forces. So it is of course only natural that Russia would have liked to maintain soviet style relations /color] Now, they've switched to the market based relationship. For transparency sake and against USchenko again, isn't it? [color=#FF0000] Removing RUE has been a stated priority of the Ukrainian PM for a long time and welcomed by the U.S. (who I don't believe considers. Yuchenko credible anymore, I know that I certainly do not).
5. You missed "four", btw, for some reason. Anyway, where did you get from the info that Russia "dropped its claims". No-one from our team heard of it from any offical source (e.g. Russian, EU or Ukrainian). My guess from western mass media, which are "free" of course to distribute any info, including lies and propaganda. Again, you use childish invective, which would not be expected from a professional in a reputable public relations firm. Do you work for a Russia PR firm? As for the answer, Timoshenko and others have purportedly stated publicly that the claims were merged/factored into the present agreement. You can find confirmation of this in non-western press. Again, do your homework or simply ask your client, Gazprom directly.
In sum and so on. I wrote about the fact that politics are heavily involved here. But not only from the Russian side, the EU and US are the players as well. Actually, I believe that you originally claimed that Russia was simply trying to do business. The US's ears are sticking out from the whole thing and Europeans in private confirm it. To you? Or are you merely repeating what your clients have told you? Have you heard about the secret Energy Charter signed by the US and The Ukraine about a month ago or so? If you are referring to part 3, section 3 of the United States-Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership which was signed in December then it is no secret. If you are referring to a truly secret agreement then you cannot even prove that it exists and all you are doing is repeating Putins seemingly paranoid allegations.
The US put very heavy pressure on EU with regard to Georgia and staff. It took the old Europeans a great deal of effort to withstand. Besides, one of the reasons why they disobeyed is Poland and Baltic states, which already spoiled the EU policy to a significant degree in many aspects. The fact they withstood the pressure doesn't cancel, but confirm the fact of the pressure itself. Really? and by the same logic, your postings here must confirm that Russia attempted to blackmail Ukraine, held Europe hostage as a warning and wants any excuse to seize parts of Ukraine like it did Georgia. Right? Same logic. The fact that the EU has the power to resist U.S. pressure speaks for itself; Or perhaps, Germany and a few other countries were afraid to lose billions of dollars in contracts and bowed to Russian pressure? It has nothing to do with the debate.
About US demonization by Russians....Since the break up of the Soviet Union in 1991 how many wars has Russia waged? That depends upon how you define war. One could reply that it has been waging war constantly and that Russian tanksand troops have been too busy firing on its own duma and killing its own people to start a war with anyone else aside from little Georgia whose army is smaller than the Moscow police force and whose provinces, like Ukraines Krimea, are strategically important.
And finally, have you ever though how many people in the Ukraine want to be with NATO and EU? Who asked them, the people of the Ukraine? USchenko consistently denies any referendum on NATO. Yoshenko will soon be history. And I agree with you, these questions need to be put to a national referendum.
So, the Ukraine may become part of the EU, specifically the western Ukraine may become part of Poland and Rumania, while the rest will be part of Russia.[/quote] I see, is the destruction of Ukraine your personal desire or is making such silly statements what Gazprom pays you for, or are you really a little boy like sector_Gaza ? Grow up. Ukraine is here. It is moving forward. Accept it, learn to live with it.
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Moscow's Mussolini
By ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI
Thou art so pitiful,
Poor, and so sorrowful,
Yet of great treasure full,
Mighty, all-powerful,
Russia, my Mother!
Citing these stirring words of the poet Nekrasov, Vladimir I. Lenin, the new dictator of Russia, published on March 12, 1918, his reasons for moving Russia's seat of government from St. Petersburg (Petrograd) to Moscow. Amid the chaos, confusion, and violence of those revolutionary days, Lenin, having just five days earlier entrenched himself in the Kremlin, proclaimed:
"Russia will become mighty and abundant if she abandons all dejection and all phrase-making, if, with clenched teeth, she musters all her forces and strains every nerve and muscle. . . . work with might and main to establish discipline and self-discipline, consolidate everywhere organization, order, efficiency, and the harmonious co-operation of all the forces of the people, introduce comprehensive accounting of and control over production and distribution -- such is the way to build up military might and socialist might."
Moscow -- which centuries earlier had been the capital of Ivan the Terrible but was demoted to the status of a provincial town when Peter the Great opened a window to Europe by constructing St. Petersburg as his new capital -- thus once again became Russia's epicenter. And so it remains to this day, with Lenin's slogans eerily anticipating Vladimir Putin's recent justification for centralized power.
It is important to recognize that to the Russians the Kremlin is more than just the seat of government. It epitomizes the centralizing tradition of the Russian autocracy. It is a tradition that is fearful of any regional autonomy, of any genuine decentralization, a tradition that fosters the chauvinist paranoia that political pluralism will almost inevitably precipitate the breakup of Russia itself. That mentality fitted well into the Stalinist notions of central planning, and it fit well into the bureaucratic mentality of the KGB with its ethic of suspicion and hierarchic discipline. For products of the KGB, such as Mr. Putin, it is axiomatic that if Russia is to be "mighty, all-powerful," it must be ruled from the top down.
* * *
Two significant realities flow from the above. The first is that Moscow is the home of a parasitic political elite that identifies the interests of Russia with its own interests. Subordinating an enormous country with 11 time-zones to all decision-making concentrated in the hands of remote Moscow bureaucrats is a formula instinctively favored by parasites. The monopolistic power of the Muscovite elite suffocates local initiative and prevents the various regions of Russia from exploiting their own talents and resources.
What's Russian for 'Il Duce'?
It is not an accident that under Stalin as well as in recent years, Moscow has been and remains the privileged beneficiary of modernization and development. In contrast, other Russian cities continue to stagnate and the Russian countryside remains largely reminiscent of the days of Tolstoy. To this day, much of all foreign investment is devoured by Moscow alone (or recycled abroad) while in many other cities (like Vladivostok, for example) even rudimentary services -- housing, hospital care, etc. -- are almost primitive.
Secondly, the leeching and self-centered mindset of the Moscow political elite stifles political democratization. Mr. Putin's move is popular with the elite because it propitiates the basic interests of a power elite that still harbors nostalgia for great- power imperialist status, that identifies its own well-being with domination over all of Russia, and through Russia over at least the former states of the Soviet Union. To the power elite, the independence of Ukraine, or of Georgia, or of Uzbekistan is an historic offense. To it, the resistance of the Chechens to Russian domination is a "terrorist" crime. To it, autonomy for 20 million ethnically non-Russian citizens is a challenge to its own privileges.
The turn toward statist centralism under Mr. Putin's KGB regime should not be confused, however, with a return to some form of communist totalitarianism. Today's Russian rulers realize that communism meant stagnation and the elite knows that communism also would mean relative deprivation for itself. State-capitalism, subject to central control, as well as the advantages of wealth and travel abroad provide the best formula for both self-gratification and nationalist aspirations.
Mr. Putin's regime in many ways is similar to Mussolini's Fascism. Il Duce made "the trains run on time." He centralized political power in the name of chauvinism. He imposed political controls over the economy without nationalizing it or destroying the economic oligarchs and their mafias. The Fascist regime evoked national greatness, discipline, and exalted myths of an allegedly glorious past. Similarly, Mr. Putin is trying to blend the traditions of the Cheka (Lenin's Gestapo, where his own grandfather started his career), with Stalin's wartime leadership, with Russian Orthodoxy's claims to the status of the Third Rome, with Slavophile dreams of a single large Slavic state ruled from the Kremlin.
That combination may be appealing for a while but ultimately -- probably within a decade or so -- it will fail. The younger and better educated and more open-minded Russian generation will slowly permeate the ruling elite. The upcoming generation will not be satisfied with life in a Fascist petro-state in which the Kremlin glitters (because of oil profits) while the rest of the country falls further and further behind not only Europe but also China. They are aware that decentralization of their huge country, which can unleash social initiative, is the key to modernization. That reality cannot be obscured forever by the slogans about "terrorism" that Mr. Putin used to justify the imposition of stifling political centralization.
Indeed, already today the neighboring Ukraine of nearly 50 million people (whom the Bush NSC has so studiously ignored while naïvely courting Mr. Putin) is beginning to provide a contrast in two major domains: its economic progress is more diversified and more evident in other cities than just in the national capital; and its politics (while still vulnerable to manipulation) have produced two genuinely contested presidential elections. As of today, no one can predict the outcome of the Ukrainian presidential elections scheduled for late October, a fact that stands in sharp contrast with the Russian "elections" in which Mr. Putin was the candidate.
Unfortunately, over the last several years the White House has fostered a cult of Putin that has done great harm to the increasingly isolated Russian democrats. Their cause deserved support. There were Russians who bravely stood up and opposed the progressive silencing of Russia's free media. There were Russians who voiced concerns regarding the narrowing scope of Russia's democracy. There were Russians who protested against the inhuman and almost genocidal massacres of the Chechens. Never once did any of them hear any measure of support from the top leadership of the country that once held high the standard of human rights in opposition to communist tyranny.
Moreover, the Bush administration should wake up to the fact that what happens in Russia bears directly on what may also happen in the space of the former Soviet Union. Today, many in the newly independent post-Soviet states fear that in the name of a war against terrorism the U.S. may also ignore Mr. Putin's intensifying efforts to encourage manipulated elections in Ukraine, to promote separatism in Georgia (while fiercely crushing the Chechens for seeking it), and to isolate Central Asia from the international economy. The fact is that prospects for democracy within Russia are interconnected both with the existence of national pluralism within the space of the former Soviet Union and with the spread of political pluralism within Russia itself.
There is a basic lesson for America in all this: For democracy to thrive in Russia, its neighbors must be truly secure, the rights of non-Russian minorities must not be forgotten, and Russian democrats must not be ignored.
Mr. Brzezinski, national security adviser to President Carter, is the author, most recently, of "The Choice: Global Domination or Global Leadership" (Basic Books, 2004).
Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A20
No. This is based upon a very naive if not childish understanding of fundamental human nature and the meaning of respect. People respect what they value and want for themselves. They destroy what they fear.[/quote]
You, westerners think, that freedom and law are fundamental human nature. But we, asians, thinking, that autority and power are fundamental human nature.
So, if you will try to impose your values on asians, there will be two result. First - complete degradation of asians - Ukraine and Georgia example. Second - you will get a huge blow from asians - Russia and China example. Why dont you see, guys, we are different.[/quote]
Please. Do not insult Chinese or other Asians. We are not like Russians. We do not fear Russia and we do not respect Russia because we cannot trust Russia.
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Ukrainian Wrote:AM Ukrainian.How can i,honest ukrainian person ,and i have to believe You that i take gas free ?while i pay bills for Russian gas,which means that i am Your customer too,the same as europeans.It appears a questionoes Russia is ready for market rules?
Now,about personal:my Father is 68 years old ,He woked all his life for Soviet union in area of sistem of driving for space,and HE IS STILL WORKING NOW in ORDER TO PAY A BILLS,HE TEACHES IN THE UNIVERSITY.and how can i tell HIM WHAT i read that HE STEALS?now i start to hate RUSSIANs,but i still not believe that RUssian can write this,i think it is a team of special politics for "information"war
I ADMIRED GREAT RUSSIAN MUSICIANS,WRITERS,Scholars,
when on NEW YEAR I DISCOVER THAT ALL WORLD READS that I AM A A TERRORIST AND I STEAL,I HAD STARTED RUSSIAN POLITICS,not RUssian people.....I WOUDN"T SAY ABUT HUMANITY AND LOVE IF I WOULD HATE RUSSIAN PEOPLE....WE Have hard life becuse of legacy of Soviet Union,and first of all in mind of people.
i had never heard about"Rosukrenergo"etc,before this New Year,and I DON"T WANT TO know about it,
i want to pay my bills and to provide normal life.
I STOPPED my normal life and i started to post in here. Dear Ukrainian Friend,
When there is a statement from Russian politicians or press reporters that "Ukraine is stealing gas", it does not concern you or any other simple national of Ukraine. This statement is about pan Yushchenko and His gas-stealing sponsors.
I am fully against such politicians like Yushchenko. He is an idiot and Nazi. But I like Ukrainian people as see no difference between an Ukrainian and a Russian. We are all the same. You should not hate Russian politicians as they are worrying about you. As your country coming to the bankruptcy. It is very bad.
Do not listen to nationalistic fascists who can tell you bullshit that Russians are against Ukrainians, they are liars. As a Russian I wish you to live wealthy and respectfully wherever you are! Take care!
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I remember some guys from Ukraine stated that Russia had no gas that's why it is blaming Ukraine for siphoning, but as we see gas flows back to EU. After agreement on int.monitoring Ukraine expressly started using transit pipes for domestic gas delivering and turn off taps on Russia's border. Gasprom had no chance to pump gas via Ukraine. Ukraine wanted Gasprom to pump it through another transit point but Gasprom denied. Why? Just because through this point Russian gas will be mix with Ukrainian gas from storages. And there would be no chance to control it.
Guys there are lots of gas in Russia. Ukrainians, your politicians too much speculate on you. Do not trust Ukrainian Orange Politicians. TRUST in PUTIN and you will be happy!
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Olaf Wrote:KIEV, Jan 20 (Reuters) - The European Union's energy commissioner, Andris Piebalgs, reassured Ukraine on Tuesday that its row with Russia over gas supplies would not harm Brussels's relations with Kiev.
"I am sure this issue will not affect EU-Ukrainian relations," he told a news briefing alongside Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. (Writing by Maria Golovnina; Editing by Ron Popeski)
Fascist Andris assured Orange Demagogocrat Yulia: ""I am sure this issue will not affect EU-Ukrainian relations,"", and then added: "Let's better blame Russia!"
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BK, a million of regrets for loosing your great reply, my fault particularly … Yep, Brzezinski articles are far not entertainment; Washington oracles are completely merciless as regards the Russia. The sad truth is he never was wrong before.
To Russian guys who brag about so called “might” and “power” of a single country. If your country depends on West in export and import on 90% and it depends on former Soviet republics where you have only Belorus among obvious satellites on 10%... don’t you think your entire future depends on them, on their will to cooperate with Russia or not?
The subsequences of declaring the gas war of those your are in fact dependant upon may lead to economical catastrophe much faster then it happened 17 years ago.
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you see guys, Your Orange Mafia had stolen gas from Russia, so EU fascists had welcomed it by saying: "Enemy of my enemy (Russia), it is my Friend (Ukraine)". then added "Harm Russia's image, we all come to support"
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sektor_Gaza Wrote:you see guys, Your Orange Mafia had stolen gas from Russia, so EU fascists had welcomed it by saying: "Enemy of my enemy (Russia), it is my Friend (Ukraine)". then added "Harm Russia's image, we all come to support" forgot to say
Recently I have noticed that EURO commissariat does not have balls, or they used to treat East europeans as second class citizens. I will not wonder if so. Ukraine had tormented easterners by stealing gas, so EURO commissariat just had pleased it!
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Mata Hari Wrote:What a provocator Dumb u are Sector_Gaza ha!! I demand from EU_forum Administration to be stopped kind of Topics !!!!!! this is unacceptable and I resist it. U should stop making such unmoral subjetc and be more serious!!
whos with me... people this person is a shame for Eu-forums..
to Administration: Please BLOCK SUCH TOPICS OR THIS PARTICIPANT...or be corrective
Same on you, Mata Hari!!!! As you post indicates your intolerance to opposed positions in the forum. May you are one of "those orange democrats"? and is this your view of democracy, free speech and freedom?
Give up your hate to me for being Russian. I do respect you point of you!
if you are still eager to block me,
Call pan Yushchenko, ask him to block Russian gas again and blackmail Site Administration that you're gonna freeze them to death!
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