Yalta1945 Wrote:lashachochua Wrote:if you have read all comments that you will see that I insulted them after they said nasty things about georgian soldiers...This is reallity, how russians debate in general here......I am so sorry about it....
Probably, there are things which are just too nasty for us to accept…
I have more questions than answers at this moment.
Russian Federation seems to take the whole regions as their hostages in Caucasus… Maybe, they count on spiralling the hatred, your wish to revenge?
In the long run, Russia will lose. I shall not be surprised if next century Siberia joins the Greater China that will outperform Russia in many aspects, but Moscow will become just a provincial centre within the Union of Arctic People. History sometimes is not tragic only – it might be quite funny.
There is probability of this, especially if russia will stick to its imperial goals........
Yalta1945 Wrote:Yesterday I watched on Russian TV people celebrate their independence day in Sukhumi and Tskhinvali. They would not understand if you tell them the decision made by Russian president Medvedev is regrettable. Do they care of the people whom they turned into refugees? Do they realize how many of the inhabitants of Abkhazia and South Ossetia were deprived of their say?
Some of them are frankly unaware of what was going on in Georgia because there is strong self-censorship in Russian media system, which is set up, controlled and manipulated by the former KGB operatives.
You are a strange man! You really think that S.Ossetia wanted to conquer Georgia? What's the goal for shooting at Georgian villages every night? Think a little. "Some of them are frankly unaware of what was going on in Georgia because there is strong self-censorship in Russian media system, which is set up, controlled and manipulated by the former KGB operatives." - just think! You can't even visit russian sites - why?
If you started to think - imaging yourself living in constant threat to be killed for 15 years! Anyone in clear mind would celebrate the end of such "peaceful coexistance"!.
Quote:Some of them are frankly unaware of what was going on in Georgia because there is strong self-censorship in Russian media system, which is set up, controlled and manipulated by the former KGB operatives
:haha you Alex are humorist. KGB controls Russian media :haha
Russian mass media sources are thousands time more objective than the Georgian one
Terry - it's a quote from Yalta1945 :haha
hmm... must have learned the history better
alex01 Wrote:You can't even visit russian sites - why?
What does make you think I am behind the great internet firewall of China? No, I am not in China. I can visit Russian sites, including pornographic, anti-Semitic, providing tools for dirty hacking and those that suggest Americans themselves blew up their Twin Tower in New York. You aim at the wrong man – I am overinformed.
russian999 Wrote:During WWII Russia, beeng banditic country, saved you, guys, from Hitler. But good democratic countrys was just sitting on they ass. Sometimes you have to be gratefull to bandits, becouse they saved you from the animals.
I admit my fault in making my last irony not clear enough.
It’s a common myth among Russians that they were saviours and liberators in that war. In case of Jews this seems to be true because of Nazi’s policy of Holocaust. But few in Russia know that NKVD collaborated with Gestapo during the short period of flirt between Stalin and Hitler.
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During the Soviet occupation Lithuania lost about 1/3 of its population because of deportations, murder and forced emigration. The consequence of the first Soviet occupation and terror of Latvia and Estonia resulted later in Latvians and Estonians joining Germans in fight against Soviets. Latvia lost about 1/3 of its population because of the war and Soviet occupations. Estonia lost more than ¼.
Hundreds of thousands (!!) were killed.
---
Consider the typical case of the current president of Lithuania V. Adamkus. He did not run away when Soviets came in 1940. He did not run away from Germans in 1941, either. But what he did when it became clear that Soviets were going to reoccupy his country? Picked up flowers for Russian soldiers? Not at all! He joined those who asked Germans for arms to fight Russians but later he retreated with Germans to the west. This was a typical case, as many bright people fled away from the Soviets and later on they settled down somewhere in the West, mainly in the US. Why were they more afraid of so-called “liberators” than of those “animals”, as you called them? Why do you think the people did not resist the first occupation but they did it against the second attempt?
The war in the Baltic Sates did not end in 1945. In 1950’s there still was armed resistance to the Soviets. The last small groups of partisans survived up to the Khrushchev ’s amnesty. If you wish to understand the reason for such resistance, look for it in the first occupation of the Baltic States. (Don’t call others “animals” when you were not better, please.)
Quote:I admit my fault in making my last irony not clear enough.
It’s a common myth among Russians that they were saviours and liberators in that war. In case of Jews this seems to be true because of Nazi’s policy of Holocaust. But few in Russia know that NKVD collaborated with Gestapo during the short period of flirt between Stalin and Hitler.
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During the Soviet occupation Lithuania lost about 1/3 of its population because of deportations, murder and forced emigration. The consequence of the first Soviet occupation and terror of Latvia and Estonia resulted later in Latvians and Estonians joining Germans in fight against Soviets. Latvia lost about 1/3 of its population because of the war and Soviet occupations. Estonia lost more than ¼.
Hundreds of thousands (!!) were killed.
---
Consider the typical case of the current president of Lithuania V. Adamkus. He did not run away when Soviets came in 1940. He did not run away from Germans in 1941, either. But what he did when it became clear that Soviets were going to reoccupy his country? Picked up flowers for Russian soldiers? Not at all! He joined those who asked Germans for arms to fight Russians but later he retreated with Germans to the west. This was a typical case, as many bright people fled away from the Soviets and later on they settled down somewhere in the West, mainly in the US. Why were they more afraid of so-called “liberators” than of those “animals”, as you called them? Why do you think the people did not resist the first occupation but they did it against the second attempt?
The war in the Baltic Sates did not end in 1945. In 1950’s there still was armed resistance to the Soviets. The last small groups of partisans survived up to the Khrushchev ’s amnesty. If you wish to understand the reason for such resistance, look for it in the first occupation of the Baltic States. (Don’t call others “animals” when you were not better, please.)
You know, what differs me from you? I am thinking, that Hitler is animal, russians - bandits and baltics people - traitors. But you are thinking, that russian are bandits, nazi are bad nazi but baltics people - they are good people. You see the difference? I am russian and I love Russia, but I am admitt, that Russians generally behaved in occupaid areas like dictators, wich is very bad. So, I am repenting for bechavior of my people.But you, guys, together with georgians ,just adamantly believe - that you are good guys, but russians are just some shit. Its absolutly romantic and counterproductive position. Until you realize, that basically in any conflict both sides are wrong, you will be beaten by more largest countrys. You have to understand, that Georgia and Balyics country not so nice, democratic and moral, as you think now. And you have to undurstand, that baltics countrys and Georgians do mistakes and bad things too. So, Saakashvili did stupidest things - provoked Russia. Until he realize, that is mistake, they will be beaten.
Also, if you are thinking, that I am bloody shovinist - that is not. I am very religios and just know, that Jesus said, that all peole sinfull. Georgians, rissians, baltics and, even Americans . And only one way to change this situation - to repent.But, how georgians will repent for there "Grad" bombing of ossetians? And how baltics people repent for there betraiding Germans and Russians alltogether? Only by beating. That is painfull, but there no other way.
russian999 Wrote:But you are thinking, that russian are bandits, nazi are bad nazi but baltics people - they are good people. .
You are just putting your own words into my mouth - that's not fair. The ideas you ascribed to me are not mine.
russian999 Wrote:basically in any conflict both sides are wrong
Do you mean I was wrong by stopping a child from plugging a piece of naked metal into a high voltage socket? Obviously it was the start of the conflict between us. But you make a too far reaching presumption.
russian999 Wrote:But, how georgians will repent for there "Grad" bombing of ossetians?
I wish we knew for sure who made what in that conflict. I am so far sure that those who shell such weapons are not pacifist. A soldier is not a pacifist. But we should differentiate real peacekeepers from aggressors.
russian999 Wrote:And how baltics people repent for there betraiding Germans and Russians alltogether?y.
What do you mean?
Questions I cannot avoid:
Why is Russia so hostile to expansion of democracy in Europe? Why does it threaten Moldova now? Why has it gone so madly far as to threaten Poland with nuclear strikes? Why did a new Russian ambassador to Latvia not openly denounce the possibility of Russian attack on Latvia when asked about it by a journalist? Why Russia has officially stuck to the falsified version of history that creates a fear that it is going to reoccupy the Baltic States some day in the future if NATO unity gets cracked? Why does it instigate unfriendly actions towards Estonia? Why does it need a tension in Ukraine? Why do its media have been for years so hostile to NATO (and the US, particularly) and even their entertainment programs show signs of anti-Americanism? (Do they enjoy an idea of setting Europeans against Americans?) Why do they put NATO’s and the EU’s reputation and credibility at stake? In revenge for Kosovo?
Yalta1945 Wrote:Questions I cannot avoid:
Why is Russia so hostile to expansion of democracy in Europe? Why does it threaten Moldova now? Why has it gone so madly far as to threaten Poland with nuclear strikes? Why did a new Russian ambassador to Latvia not openly denounce the possibility of Russian attack on Latvia when asked about it by a journalist? Why Russia has officially stuck to the falsified version of history that creates a fear that it is going to reoccupy the Baltic States some day in the future if NATO unity gets cracked? Why does it instigate unfriendly actions towards Estonia? Why does it need a tension in Ukraine? Why do its media have been for years so hostile to NATO (and the US, particularly) and even their entertainment programs show signs of anti-Americanism? (Do they enjoy an idea of setting Europeans against Americans?) Why do they put NATO’s and the EU’s reputation and credibility at stake? In revenge for Kosovo?
The whole world has to form anti-russian coalitaion, actually UK foreign minister is trying to do this.....Those who still do not understand the real situation.......Dear Russians you think you will invade the whole world and you will still be 250 million.........
No country yet, but Hamas, supported Russia in his desicion recognizeing Abkhazia and S. Ossetia as independent.....You should be shamefull, It is getting really fucking strange, how Russians do not see that they are alone..........
Quote:The whole world has to form anti-russian coalitaion, actually UK foreign minister is trying to do this.....Those who still do not understand the real situation.......Dear Russians you think you will invade the whole world and you will still be 250 million.........
Actually, we dont care so much about anti-russian coalition. Tell me - when Russia was in no-opposing the world position? But you have to understand - Russians with all there bad manners have one great part of character - they hate double mindness. Westerners greatly admiring double mindness - when you are living in USA - you can see this clearly. Americans smile to you and shortly after call at you to police. Its not that bad, sometimes you need to have double standarts. But Russians hate this manners, russians will tell you everything, what they think about you. If you bad - they will tell you this straight, if good - say you frankly.
That is why, when georgians loset ther patience and bombed ossetians - russians frankly told to them - "you bastards". When Bush was trying to stop russians - they just said to him : "Shut up"/ It is not rudnes - it is frankliness.
russian999 Wrote:Quote:The whole world has to form anti-russian coalitaion, actually UK foreign minister is trying to do this.....Those who still do not understand the real situation.......Dear Russians you think you will invade the whole world and you will still be 250 million.........
Actually, we dont care so much about anti-russian coalition. Tell me - when Russia was in no-opposing the world position? But you have to understand - Russians with all there bad manners have one great part of character - they hate double mindness. Westerners greatly admiring double mindness - when you are living in USA - you can see this clearly. Americans smile to you and shortly after call at you to police. Its not that bad, sometimes you need to have double standarts. But Russians hate this manners, russians will tell you everything, what they think about you. If you bad - they will tell you this straight, if good - say you frankly.
That is why, when georgians loset ther patience and bombed ossetians - russians frankly told to them - "you bastards". When Bush was trying to stop russians - they just said to him : "Shut up"/ It is not rudnes - it is frankliness.
No comment........ :banghead
Quote:No comment........
For shure,you cannot comment the truth. But the truth is - Georgia, not democratic and developed yet, trying to get money, land, recogonation from developed countrys by avanturistics action. It is plain truth.
And russia, not democratic and developed yet, just trying to tell georgians, that if you pretend to be democratic - you have to behave like democratic
russian999 Wrote:But Russians hate this manners, russians will tell you everything, what they think about you. If you bad - they will tell you this straight, if good - say you frankly.
<...> When Bush was trying to stop russians - they just said to him : "Shut up"/ It is not rudnes - it is frankliness.
I should rather believe that Yeltsin was frank and straightforward although his drinking habits made many in the world to worry. Putin can be rude, sometimes extremely rude, but I should be mad to trust him. Medvedev is still a black horse but sometimes he looks like a mimic of Putin.
There is zero frankness in masquerading peacekeepers in South Ossetia. Peacekeepers do not take sides – they stand in between of conflict sides. Russian troops perhaps should have had to be replaced by international forces at the very moment the first Russian passport was issued to an inhabitant of South Ossetia. Peacekeepers do not open gates for an offensive army as they did it in Abkhazia – I saw it myself on TV. There were also many other things Russian TV did not show, among them looters. Well, a journalist asked a soldier: “where did you take that golden fork from?” “Go away!” This is their openness. Nothing has much changed since I served in the Soviet Army. Officers used to order us, soldiers, to loot.
russian999 Wrote:Quote:No comment........
For shure,you cannot comment the truth. But the truth is - Georgia, not democratic and developed yet, trying to get money, land, recogonation from developed countrys by avanturistics action. It is plain truth.
And russia, not democratic and developed yet, just trying to tell georgians, that if you pretend to be democratic - you have to behave like democratic
Eh, The truth has been commented always, what was not commented was the bullshit.....So now you decided why I did not comment
Even many Russian sattelite countries in central Asia, China, Iran have not recognized the freedom of Abkhazia and S. Ossetia, they approved the actions of Russia (it is understandable...CNN journalist commented Madvedev did not manage to get from these countries what he wanted to get)...This is your truth, this is reality
Yalta, as I remeber it was silver spoon, eh the whole world should know what russian troops were doing here...Not only russian government, but also Russian army is the shit of bull....You have weapons from soviet union, your TU25 was bombed by Georgians, this is your reality....
russian999 Wrote:Quote:No comment........
For shure,you cannot comment the truth. But the truth is - Georgia, not democratic and developed yet, trying to get money, land, recogonation from developed countrys by avanturistics action. It is plain truth.
And russia, not democratic and developed yet, just trying to tell georgians, that if you pretend to be democratic - you have to behave like democratic
:haha :haha :haha Russia is democratic and developed....Can you tell me what is the share of service sector in Russian GDP, I am askin this question, because the share of service sector in GDP is the sign of development. Can you tell me what is per capita GDP of Russia, per capita innovation rate....take all these numbers compare them to USA and European standards and than sit and cry..... :haha :haha :haha
Below you can find links which illustrate a variety of views on the subject:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/">http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121910337759951381.html?mod=googlenews_wsj">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1219103 ... lenews_wsj</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=5455.0.108.0">http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=5455.0.108.0</a><!-- m -->
I am soon (appr. in 1h) going to quit the forum for some reason
Long live Kindzmarauli! (no, this is not the reason)
One more time I am providing the time line of the conflict for blind Russiams and Pro-russians, Please dear opponents provide your time line, try to critisize the facts via providing arguments or shut down, no speculations you like so much.....I think it is too early to say anything about calculations of saakashvili or medvedev, I am sure in the nearest future we will see who gained what from this conflict......
*********
July 3: One month before Russia’s invasion into Georgia, separatists try to assassinate Dimitri Sanakoyev, Head of the Temporary Administration of South Ossetia. A remote control road bomb exploded while Mr Sanakoyev’s cortege was passing by. Five policemen accompanying Mr. Sanakoyev were wounded. Mr. Sanakoyev—a former separatist fighter and defense minister in the separatist government - laid down his arms in 2006 to promote the peaceful re-integration of the region with the rest of the country under a broad autonomy arrangement. Mr. Sanakoyev was elected in democratic elections and administered up to 50% of the territory of the region.
· July 29: For the first time since last major hostilities, separatist militia begin intensively shelling ethnically mixed villages under Georgian control, including those of them where the Georgian peacekeepers held their check-points, with large-caliber artillery (greater than 82 mm) which is prohibited by existing agreements. This fact is formally acknowledged by the Head of "Peacekeeping Forces,” Russian General Marat Kulakhmetov on August 4 (he makes specific reference to the shelling on villages under Government control on August 1 and 2 with high caliber artillery). Shelling of this magnitude continues on a regular basis through August 7, in advance of the Russian land invasion into Georgia.
· 1 August: A pickup truck carrying six police officers of MIA of Georgia is hit by two remote-control explosive devices (IED) on the Eredvi-Kheiti bypass road, close to the Government controlled enclave north of the city of Tskhinvali. Five policemen are severely wounded.
· 3 August: Russian media outlets report the large-scale mobilization of volunteers across the Russian North Caucasus, including pledges by Cossacks to deploy mercenary troops into Georgia.
· 4 August: The separatists announce the evacuation of the civilian population from Tskhinvali and from the separatist controlled villages of the region.
· 5 & 7 August: At the request of President Saakashvili, Special Envoy Temur Yakobashvili twice attempts to negotiate with separatists, but his requests are rebuffed.
· 7 August: The Special Envoy of Russia’s Foreign Ministry, Yuri Popov, fails to mediate preliminary agreed talks on a ceasefire, citing refusal by the separatists, while shelling of Villages under Government control continues.
· General Kulakhmetov, during the meeting in Tskhinvali with Special Envoy Yakobashvili, declares that he cannot contact the separatist leaders, and that Russian "peacekeepers” cannot stop the separatist attacks; General Kulakhmetov admits that the separatists were shooting from the vicinity of Russian "peacekeeping” posts.
· In spite of casualties among Georgian peacekeepers and civilians killed by separatist fire, President Saakashvili orders an immediate ceasefire and calls for negotiations. He reaffirms the Government’s proposal to grant broad "European standard” autonomy to the region, and offers Russia to serve as a guarantor. President Saakashvili also announces an unconditional amnesty for separatists who agree to cease hostilities.
· Despite the ceasefire declared by President Saakashvili, the separatists intensify their shelling of villages under Georgian control and Georgian peacekeeper posts.
· Approximately 150 armored vehicles and military trucks of the Russian regular army stream into the Roki Tunnel and head towards Tskhinvali. In response to the entry of Russian armed forces into Georgian territory, the Georgian military enters the conflict zone in the region.
· Russia claims that its forces entered Georgian territory only after a purported "surprise Georgian assault” on Tskhinvali; however Russia continues to refuse to make public the time at which it launched its invasion into Georgia.
· 8 August: The Ministry of Defense of Russia and various senior officials claim that Georgian forces "have killed 2,000 civilians” in Tskhinvali.
· 11 August: Human Rights Watch representative say that Russia purposely exaggerated casualty figures in Tskhinvali, leading to revenge killings against the ethnic Georgian population (Annex 4).
· 21 August: The Russian Prosecutor General’s Office reports significantly lower civilian casualty figures in the South Ossetia region at 133. There is a strong likelihood that the majority of these casualties were separatist militiamen, as local officials frequently refer to non-Russian servicemen as civilians (Annexes 5 and 6).
· 9–24 August: Following the retreat of Georgian armed forces towards Tbilisi, the Russian armed forces and paramilitary groupss conduct widespread atrocities, including the burning, looting, kidnapping, raping, and summary executions of Georgian civilians inside and outside the zone of conflict. Within the zone of conflict, entire villages of Eredvi, Avnevi, Nuli, Kurta, Achabeti, Tamarasheni, Kekhvi, Disevi, etc., are deliberately burned and destroyed, resulting in the ethnic cleansing of Georgians. Many of these events are confirmed in reports issued by international human rights organizations. (Annex 7).
**********
Try to falsify any of these facts, but based on facts or arguments, stop bullshitting.......Finally you have to understand that you are the victims of Russian propaganda......By the way, I remember one comment of journalist from Russia (aljazeera, the power of people) I think he is a directo of "Novaia Gazeta"...He said, nowadays, most of journalists in Russia can say that they are the STATE JOURNALISTS.........It is so pitty...
Yalta1945 Wrote:Below you can find links which illustrate a variety of views on the subject:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/">http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121910337759951381.html?mod=googlenews_wsj">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1219103 ... lenews_wsj</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=5455.0.108.0">http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=5455.0.108.0</a><!-- m -->
I am soon (appr. in 1h) going to quit the forum for some reason
Long live Kindzmarauli! (no, this is not the reason)
Good life friend...Wish you everything good......Kindzmarauli will be always with us.........
lashachochua Wrote:russian999 Wrote:Quote:No comment........
For shure,you cannot comment the truth. But the truth is - Georgia, not democratic and developed yet, trying to get money, land, recogonation from developed countrys by avanturistics action. It is plain truth.
And russia, not democratic and developed yet, just trying to tell georgians, that if you pretend to be democratic - you have to behave like democratic
:haha :haha :haha Russia is democratic and developed....Can you tell me what is the share of service sector in Russian GDP, I am askin this question, because the share of service sector in GDP is the sign of development. Can you tell me what is per capita GDP of Russia, per capita innovation rate....take all these numbers compare them to USA and European standards and than sit and cry..... :haha :haha :haha
Might be You should reread what russian999 wrote - What I can see mentioned is that
Russia is not democratic and developed yet
Btw: If You compare Georgia GDP per capita 4.700$ against Russian GDP per capita 14.700$ there might
be some reason for You yourself sitting down and crying. Even 100% of nothing is still nothing.
GDP information from CIA - The World Factbook
Georgia: $4,700 -> Services 57.6% -> 2707$ Services per capita
Russia: $14,700 -> Services 56.2% -> 8261$ Services per capita
So You are telling us that Russia is three times as developed as Georgia ?
What can I say - I agree with Your point of view :ange
thanks 2 lashachochua 4 informative contribution
If you have read the last link I provided, U see there are already religious prophets of World War III because of this conflict.
We need a source of optimism in the grim reality, a hopeful historical example is needed.
Compare German and Japan in the WWII to what they constitute now. I do not suggest a country just must be beaten in a war to learn a good behaviour. The defeat in the WWI did not stop Germany from waging another war. Without a due process of reconciliation that paves the way to a prolonged peace the war is never over. It is integration of a country on the regional and global level that matters for its stable and peaceful development. The European integration provides now a good chance for countries of this region to overcome their conflicts and differences as far as it is based on sound principles of justice and has the well developed frameworks. The European values and principles are at core of the EU’s strength. The recipe for a European country that is not a member of the EU is simple: apply and comply. It is much more likely that you will find solutions to your problems by joining the union than staying outside. If Georgia with its provinces had been the EU member, I am sure, the Abkhazian problem would have not been so acute. It is not unimaginable that Abkhazia could separate and become a state recognized by Georgia itself if the process went naturally and lawfully. It is even more probable that separatist aspirations in Abkhazia would ebb. Unfortunately, we got the bloody case where principles of the international law tend to be neglected, where basic human rights were violated and, from the moral point of view, some people got on a wrong believe in possibility to build a good life at their neighbours’ expense. Kremlin is not able to offer Europeans more attractive idea than the EU. The European Union should also be much more objective and effective in putting those responsible for the war crimes – be it Georgians, Ossetians or smb else –to justice. Sooner or later Abkhazians will also realize it. In the womb of time they shall meet at the same friendly table with Georgians (why do you thins it is impossible?).
Between the two world wars Poland occupied the historical capital of Lithuania Vilnius and relations between these two countries were very bad. Now Poland and Lithuania are strategic partners, although some ethnic (and picturesque) Lithuanian territories are part of Poland.
(BTW, long ago Lithuania (in Union with Poland whose territory was less populated than LT’s) used to stretch from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea. Now it is just “a tiny piece of amber”. Empires shrink and disappear.)
Good Bye To All!
Quote:Btw: If You compare Georgia GDP per capita 4.700$ against Russian GDP per capita 14.700$ there might
be some reason for You yourself sitting down and crying. Even 100% of nothing is still nothing.
GDP information from CIA - The World Factbook
Georgia: $4,700 -> Services 57.6% -> 2707$ Services per capita
Russia: $14,700 -> Services 56.2% -> 8261$ Services per capita
So You are telling us that Russia is three times as developed as Georgia ?
What can I say - I agree with Your point of view
I think you have to reread my comment as well, I said copmare it to USA and European standerds, not Georgian....When country has ambition to be called superpower, it should be compared to Developed countries, not Georgia
By the way you information about GDP looks a bit strange, what kind of GDP per capita they are, nominal real, based on PPP or ....
here are GDPs in nominal prices in dollars
Country Subject Descriptor Units Scale 2004 2005 2006 2007
Georgia Gross domestic product per capita, current prices U.S. dollars Units
1,187.84; 1,483.55; 1,764.08; 2,355.17;
Russia Gross domestic product per capita, current prices U.S. dollars Units
4,104.44; 5,325.63; 6,923.46; 9,075.05;
International Monetary Fund, World Economic Outlook Database, April 2008
By the way I aslo ask you to see Transition Report 2008 of EBRD, there you will see many interesting information about Economic freedom, the conditions of free market....Ops, this publication is dedicated to the people in Transition countries, there are a lot of interesting information how people perceive democracy, liberalizm, what kind of government they want to see in Transition countries, Russian case is really interesting.......
lashachochua Wrote:I think you have to reread my comment as well, I said copmare it to USA and European standerds, not Georgian....When country has ambition to be called superpower, it should be compared to Developed countries, not Georgia
By the way you information about GDP looks a bit strange, what kind of GDP per capita they are, nominal real, based on PPP or ....
Reread my comment - I mentioned it was from CIA factbook - and that means they are PPP
Somehow it seems that You are trying to tell us how democratic and developed country Georgia is -
and Russia is not. So I think it more than fair compare You against them.
Comparing to EU countries is irrelevant - even Russias level of development seems to be much closer
to us than Yours.
btw. Your data in current prices is even more catastrophic for You - What are You doing there ?
Working ? :haha :haha :haha
Georgia 2007: 2,355.17$ against Russia 2007: 9,075.05$ ( almost 4 times as much as Yours)
Quote:I mentioned it was from CIA factbook - and that means they are PPP
Why does that mean that it should be in PPP, if it is from CIA factbook, strange :haha ......
Quote:Somehow it seems that You are trying to tell us how democratic and developed country Georgia is
-
If you remember on of my comments, I said Georgia is not democratic, but Georgian people declared that they want to build democracy and we are building it, by the way georgia is one of the small number of countries, which created a kind of parlament in 13 century, if not Russia invasion in 1801, I am sure Georgia had been among the leading democratic countries in the world
Quote:and Russia is not.
Russia is not really e democratic country.... I have provided many arguments for that....I directed you to human rights watch web-page, very interesting program in aljazeera "The power of people"....What else you want, when are you telling about Georgian democracy you at least have to provide some arguments.....where they are?....I do not see them......
Quote:Comparing to EU countries is irrelevant - even Russias level of development seems to be much closer
to us than Yours.
I do not think that it is irrevelent. If you ever heard about natural experiments, you should know that the case of European and Russian countries is good example, to say where democracy leads and where Imperializm, autocracy leads....There is a very interesting direction in science, Institutionalizm, which studies such questions, suggest you to read some articles of Acemoglue, MIT Professor....Both Russia (Soviet Union) and Europe had mostly the same starting conditions for development, may be europe were much more destroyed after world war too....So what is the result.....Developed Europe and Underdeveloped Russia.....This is what I meant when I said to compare them..........