Georgia and South Ossetia at war

[aranar63]

"remember we still are the only 13 trillion dollars economy in the world and probably will be for the next 10 years". This is true. And 10 years sounds realistically. I fully share this pessimism of yours as to the US

This is not pessimism, our economy is stil growin not fuel by oil or gas, but by exports, not like Russia, nothing we would like more then to see China grow up to 20 to 30 trillion dollars, it will mean that we can export a lot more to China, wich in return will fuel our economy, for now it is us driving the Chinese economy.
As it will be for a long more time to come, if we slow Europe (the EU) will slow, China will slow, maybe Mended-evil will find a way of growing, personally i think it will slow dramatically, see what happend when we don't drive as much from $147 to $115 and it keeps going down, that means the america consumer is at the wheel, not Putin or Mended-evil, it is market economics my friend, offer and demand, you may have a lot to offer but if we are not buying the price of your commodities will fall. Thats the difference between the US and Russia.
As far as you liking the Vibe, is good i personaly don't, making $100,000 a year you are quite well, but your per capita income is extremly low as you are rank at 62 from 63 countries, and i remain you that most of it it hold by your oligarchs and the apartchik.
You like the vibe probably because is the one that you can buy, nothing else, but you GDP is a patetic 1.3 trillion dollars our is 13 trillion dollars, lets face it even if we contract and russia expand it will take russia almost 20 years to get to 13 trillions dollars, because if we contract you too will contract like the rest of the world. But by that time our GDP will be in the 20 to 30 trillion range.
We use everybody else ressources and not ours, we sit on a ton of oil, coal etc etc, and buy everything from other countries, this is why our 3 oil companies make almos 50 billion dollars a year, that 1.5 billions a that is only 3 companies in our land,lets put it in perspective thats 1% of your GDP, please name me one Russian company making 1% of the US GDP, not even China has one.
Enjoy the oil ride as it last, because as soon as we put in place a plan to walk away from fossil fuel, Russias party will end. Our economy is fuel by inovation and High tech, with no one in the world following close.
You could not keep up with us in Soviet time and won't in this century, remember China ha a status of most prefered nation (their goods don't pay taxes when they come to us) we can change that, at any time.
So keep dreaming of imperial Russia, we are waiting when mother Russia will want Alaska back.
And yes we are cowboys with a lot of guns, we do not like for a big country to occupied a small one, as far as Iraq, sadam was warn several times, as we move 200,000 soldiers half way around the globe to fight Sadam and yes it was wrong and Bush was wrong, but we do not spinn this as you guys are doing with South Ossetia.
And please put it in perspective, we do have poor in the US, but they are not as poor as in Russia and China etc etc. Our living standard is extremly high, even compare to the EU, wich i remain you is a bunch of states,
we are still one country, by the way Brasil GDP is bigger the Russia.
So keep dreaming, by the way the war stop, lets see whats happend next, may be finally Adolf-Putin and Herman-Mended-evil (Hitler and Ghoering)finally got it, without the west Russia can not survive.

[aranar63]

To all of you parruskies, if you want to mess with us, i say bring it on, we face you in Berlin, some 50 years ago you back down, today east berlin does not exist any longer, we glandly face you again, any time any where, we face you again in Cuba, again you back down, did you want me to continue? send one of you bombers over our skies at least try maybe Alaska, oh why not American Samoa, the smallest US territory drop a bomb see what happen next. Or Diego Garcia.

[Peacekeaper123]

Saakashvili’s attempt to take over South Ossetia was a stupidly reckless gamble which deserved to fail, much as I sympathise in some other respects with Georgia, which, at any rate in the foothils of the Caucasus, struck me as a beautiful country when I was there in 1985. I doubt whether he will be able to get back to anything like as favourable a position as he was in last Thursday.

It is now almost the mirror image of Kosovo – the people of a part of Serbia wanted to be either independent or part of Albania; the Serbs tried to maintain their control; NATO, and in particular the US Air Force, behaved just as the Russians have done in the last four or five days, bombing not only Kosovo but Belgrade, the main bridge across the Danube and other parts of Serbia; and the result is that the internationally agreed boundary of Serbia, which included Kosovo, was changed so that, at any rate in the eyes of the USA and some NATO countries though not Russia, Kosovo ceased to be part of Serbia.

I can see no possible ground on which NATO can criticise the Russians for doing almost exactly what NATO did in 1999 (though at less risk to members of their own forces). The only difference is that Serbia was deliberately provoked by the KLA into taking necessary action to deal with the KLA terrorists, whereas the South Ossetians were not actually doing anything particularly provocative of that kind - Saakashvili's attack on South Ossetia seems to have been timed to coincide with the Olympics when Putin was in China, and not due to any acts on the part of the South Ossetians or the Russian peacekeepers (several of whom were killed by Georgian troops in the initial attack).

As to Western involvement, either the US authorities knew in advance what Saakashvili was intending to do and did nothing to stop him, or they did not know and the CIA is even less efficient than it has appeared to be in some other cases. Either way, the West has yielded the moral high ground to Russia and has now no useful contribution to make.

+1

Where are you from?

[qwerty]

Saakashvili’s attempt to take over South Ossetia was a stupidly reckless gamble which deserved to fail, much as I sympathise in some other respects with Georgia, which, at any rate in the foothils of the Caucasus, struck me as a beautiful country when I was there in 1985. I doubt whether he will be able to get back to anything like as favourable a position as he was in last Thursday.

It is now almost the mirror image of Kosovo – the people of a part of Serbia wanted to be either independent or part of Albania; the Serbs tried to maintain their control; NATO, and in particular the US Air Force, behaved just as the Russians have done in the last four or five days, bombing not only Kosovo but Belgrade, the main bridge across the Danube and other parts of Serbia; and the result is that the internationally agreed boundary of Serbia, which included Kosovo, was changed so that, at any rate in the eyes of the USA and some NATO countries though not Russia, Kosovo ceased to be part of Serbia.

I can see no possible ground on which NATO can criticise the Russians for doing almost exactly what NATO did in 1999 (though at less risk to members of their own forces). The only difference is that Serbia was deliberately provoked by the KLA into taking necessary action to deal with the KLA terrorists, whereas the South Ossetians were not actually doing anything particularly provocative of that kind - Saakashvili's attack on South Ossetia seems to have been timed to coincide with the Olympics when Putin was in China, and not due to any acts on the part of the South Ossetians or the Russian peacekeepers (several of whom were killed by Georgian troops in the initial attack).

As to Western involvement, either the US authorities knew in advance what Saakashvili was intending to do and did nothing to stop him, or they did not know and the CIA is even less efficient than it has appeared to be in some other cases. Either way, the West has yielded the moral high ground to Russia and has now no useful contribution to make.

I add to this a quotation from the message one guy posted here on Kosovo some time ago:

"...when we went there we had international madate to do this and to Iraq too, it is our money rebuilding that country, and yes we are cowboys with a lot of money and a lot of guns , the best money can buy, not like you decrepid army with 20 years old tanks and planes, as far as nuclear weapons, did you think we care, we have more the you do, yes we can destroy the world 100 times over our delivery systems are the best in the world, the size of our military budget is the size of you entire GDP, but it is only a 3% of our GDP".

How do you like these arguments? Isn't the guy a sweetie? I'm a bit confused as to whether I have to consider them as expressing democracy (especially the part about a cowboy with a fat purse). But this is an opinion - and quite popular one - in the world. To me, there's no difference in essence between this and opinions put forward by most disgusting Russian nationalists.

[Peacekeaper123]

To all of you parruskies, if you want to mess with us, i say bring it on, we face you in Berlin, some 50 years ago you back down, today east berlin does not exist any longer, we glandly face you again, any time any where, we face you again in Cuba, again you back down, did you want me to continue? send one of you bombers over our skies at least try maybe Alaska, oh why not American Samoa, the smallest US territory drop a bomb see what happen next. Or Diego Garcia.

Why should we try Alaska, or American Samoa? Where is logic in your words?

[SiD]

Why should we try Alaska, or American Samoa? Where is logic in your words?

To all of you parruskies, if you want to mess with us, i say bring it on, we face you in Berlin, some 50 years ago you back down, today east berlin does not exist any longer, we glandly face you again, any time any where, we face you again in Cuba, again you back down, did you want me to continue? send one of you bombers over our skies at least try maybe Alaska, oh why not American Samoa, the smallest US territory drop a bomb see what happen next. Or Diego Garcia.

I got it, he is not gutsy he is nutsy. Are you lunatic or what? perhaps one of your guns shot out your brain? Or havent you learnt history? East Berlin does not exist :lol: . Warshaw Pact does not exist, and Soviet Union becouse of internal problems, read some books. And why should we drop bombs on Alaska or enywere else? It is obvius that you know nothing about S Osetian conflict. If you think we need territory LOOK AT THE MAP!!!
And unlike you we know that just attack someone is wrong!
Anyway quit with your empty claims or create another topic, this topic is not about economy, or warmongering cowboys.

[egg]

qwerty wrote:

"...when we went there [Kosovo] we had international madate to do this ..."

There was no UN mandate whatever for the US and NATO attack on Serbia in 1999, which was in clear breach of the Charter of the United Nations.

Professor Lieven, a senior fellow of the New America Foundation in Washington DC and a Professor at King's College London, wrote an informative article in The London Times yesterday, which ended:

"What remains is an absolute determination [on the part of Russia] not to be defeated by Georgia and not to suffer the humiliation of having to abandon Russia’s South Ossete client state, with everything that this would mean for Russian prestige in other areas. Vladimir Putin’s Kremlin made it clear again and again that if Georgia attacked South Ossetia, Russia would fight. Georgian advocates in the West claimed that Moscow was only bluffing. It wasn’t."

As I say, a gross failure on the part of the Western "friends" of Georgia and/or of the CIA, for which Georgia is now paying (having first inflicted disproportionate damage and casualties and caused 30,000 refugees to flee from their homes in South Ossetia).

[qwerty]

"remember we still are the only 13 trillion dollars economy in the world and probably will be for the next 10 years". This is true. And 10 years sounds realistically. I fully share this pessimism of yours as to the US

This is not pessimism, our economy is stil growin not fuel by oil or gas, but by exports, not like Russia, nothing we would like more then to see China grow up to 20 to 30 trillion dollars, it will mean that we can export a lot more to China, wich in return will fuel our economy, for now it is us driving the Chinese economy.
As it will be for a long more time to come, if we slow Europe (the EU) will slow, China will slow, maybe Mended-evil will find a way of growing, personally i think it will slow dramatically, see what happend when we don't drive as much from $147 to $115 and it keeps going down, that means the america consumer is at the wheel, not Putin or Mended-evil, it is market economics my friend, offer and demand, you may have a lot to offer but if we are not buying the price of your commodities will fall. Thats the difference between the US and Russia.
As far as you liking the Vibe, is good i personaly don't, making $100,000 a year you are quite well, but your per capita income is extremly low as you are rank at 62 from 63 countries, and i remain you that most of it it hold by your oligarchs and the apartchik.
You like the vibe probably because is the one that you can buy, nothing else, but you GDP is a patetic 1.3 trillion dollars our is 13 trillion dollars, lets face it even if we contract and russia expand it will take russia almost 20 years to get to 13 trillions dollars, because if we contract you too will contract like the rest of the world. But by that time our GDP will be in the 20 to 30 trillion range.
We use everybody else ressources and not ours, we sit on a ton of oil, coal etc etc, and buy everything from other countries, this is why our 3 oil companies make almos 50 billion dollars a year, that 1.5 billions a that is only 3 companies in our land,lets put it in perspective thats 1% of your GDP, please name me one Russian company making 1% of the US GDP, not even China has one.
Enjoy the oil ride as it last, because as soon as we put in place a plan to walk away from fossil fuel, Russias party will end. Our economy is fuel by inovation and High tech, with no one in the world following close.
You could not keep up with us in Soviet time and won't in this century, remember China ha a status of most prefered nation (their goods don't pay taxes when they come to us) we can change that, at any time.
So keep dreaming of imperial Russia, we are waiting when mother Russia will want Alaska back.
And yes we are cowboys with a lot of guns, we do not like for a big country to occupied a small one, as far as Iraq, sadam was warn several times, as we move 200,000 soldiers half way around the globe to fight Sadam and yes it was wrong and Bush was wrong, but we do not spinn this as you guys are doing with South Ossetia.
And please put it in perspective, we do have poor in the US, but they are not as poor as in Russia and China etc etc. Our living standard is extremly high, even compare to the EU, wich i remain you is a bunch of states,
we are still one country, by the way Brasil GDP is bigger the Russia.
So keep dreaming, by the way the war stop, lets see whats happend next, may be finally Adolf-Putin and Herman-Mended-evil (Hitler and Ghoering)finally got it, without the west Russia can not survive.

The thing is, nobody cares to compete with the US financially - except the EU, probablly. No one denies that Uncle Sam is rich. I only wanted to say that this fact alone is not enough to dictate your opinion to everybody else in the world. Not anymore. You have to face it. As to consuming - you may consume as much as you like, who cares? If that's the meaning of your life, that's totally fine with me. Different priorities, is all. Only your share is shrinking day by day, and I may say you don't like it much. Well, that's understandable - who would?

As to per capita income, unfortunately, many people here (not only the richest part) earn a lot of money that they hide from the government. So the official statistics is unreliable. I personally show 60,000 rubles a year - less than 3% from what I really earn (salary for the occasional work for a university). 3/4 of the population here does that. And this is bad - but people have no choice - the law is such here that if you show everything, you'd be naked quite soon. And, if you rent a decent apartment in St. Pete and want to go abroad twice a year, buy a decent car, food and clothing, you need at least $4 to 5,000 a month. So multiply the official data by 10 at least, and you'll get the real picture. Many of my friends, of different professions - and I have a lot of them in Moscow, St. Pete and other cities - do not emigrate to Canada (under Skilled Workers program or otherwise) or to the US because they earn much more here. The revenue law here is draconic, this is true.

As to bureaucrats and other stuff - this is true, of course.

As to the war - we'll see. I hope no further escalation will happen. And, as I said already, Putin is an asshole, but in this case he has a lot of excuses. You will certainly find reliable information on the web if you care to learn the history of the region in question.

[qwerty]

qwerty wrote:

"...when we went there [Kosovo] we had international madate to do this ..."

There was no UN mandate whatever for the US and NATO attack on Serbia in 1999, which was in clear breach of the Charter of the United Nations.

Professor Lieven, a senior fellow of the New America Foundation in Washington DC and a Professor at King's College London, wrote an informative article in The London Times yesterday, which ended:

"What remains is an absolute determination [on the part of Russia] not to be defeated by Georgia and not to suffer the humiliation of having to abandon Russia’s South Ossete client state, with everything that this would mean for Russian prestige in other areas. Vladimir Putin’s Kremlin made it clear again and again that if Georgia attacked South Ossetia, Russia would fight. Georgian advocates in the West claimed that Moscow was only bluffing. It wasn’t."

As I say, a gross failure on the part of the Western "friends" of Georgia and/or of the CIA, for which Georgia is now paying (having first inflicted disproportionate damage and casualties and caused 30,000 refugees to flee from their homes in South Ossetia).

This is not me, I just quoted someone aranar63 here. I personally think this opinion (about having an international mandate etc.) of a totally uninformed person.

[Moskal]

This forum is full of paranoid russophobs who are not good enough in English... However, they consistently ignore the truth which is the fact that it was Georgian troops that killed 2000 civilians in the town of Tskhinval within 1 or 2 days, using heavy arms. They deliberately killed even women, children and the elderly. They sadistically shot the wounded and helpless peacekeepers. And all this was inspired, organized and led by the Georgian politicians, Saakashvili in the first place, under strong guiding arm of Uncle Sam from overseas.

Only later, almost a day after the Russian army invaded and - yes! - bit the shit of of the Georgian scum, for they are scum as were German nazis.

Now, the time has come. The time to pay. And you will all see very soon how Saakashvili and his ministers and MPs will stand before the international tribunal, unless they manage to kill themselves before...

This is what they have deserved and will receive!

[qwerty]

This forum is full of paranoid russophobs who are not good enough in English... However, they consistently ignore the truth which is the fact that it was Georgian troops that killed 2000 civilians in the town of Tskhinval within 1 or 2 days, using heavy arms. They deliberately killed even women, children and the elderly. They sadistically shot the wounded and helpless peacekeepers. And all this was inspired, organized and led by the Georgian politicians, Saakashvili in the first place, under strong guiding arm of Uncle Sam from overseas.

Only later, almost a day after the Russian army invaded and - yes! - bit the shit of of the Georgian scum, for they are scum as were German nazis.

Now, the time has come. The time to pay. And you will all see very soon how Saakashvili and his ministers and MPs will stand before the international tribunal, unless they manage to kill themselves before...

This is what they have deserved and will receive!

The thing is that the action Saaka undertook was not expected by Americans. This is why there was a total, complete silence, no reaction at all from the West during first 16 hours of the Georgian invasion. The only thing they could say is to state the fact of the invasion. This could not be done without loosing a democratic face.

[aranar63]

he thing is, nobody cares to compete with the US financially - except the EU, probablly. No one denies that Uncle Sam is rich. I only wanted to say that this fact alone is not enough to dictate your opinion to everybody else in the world. Not anymore. You have to face it. As to consuming - you may consume as much as you like, who cares? If that's the meaning of your life, that's totally fine with me. Different priorities, is all. Only your share is shrinking day by day, and I may say you don't like it much. Well, that's understandable - who would?

Nobody cares or nobody can't, the next 5 richest countries GDP don't equal ours, thats Japan, China, Germany,the UK,France etc etc.
Cunsumerism drives the world economy, ask the Chinese, they will tell you, Walmart buys as much from China as your countries GDP
By the way if you ever understand Capitalism, uncle Sam is not rich, our federal reserve owes nothing in this country, we do the citizens, Uncle Sam just gets our Taxes, and the corporations, this is not Russia or China, by the way we do agree on no further scalation, this can't happen, my point is if your country wants to expand it should do it in a peacefull way, not by force, your goverment should be interested in making life better for people not living in Moskow or SPB, not engage in anexation of another country, it is just wastefull money, ask us we will tell you (Iraq) where we have spend 1.5 trillions dollars allready.
We don't fear the future, we embrace it, our system will take care of this.
Our share is schrinking, revise your economic data, our economy grew from 5 trillions to 13 in 8 years, and yes we have problems, but we will solve it,Capitalism has its cycles of up and downs.
i do hope that this war stop and does not scalate, under any circumstances.
But occupation will not be the end solution, you know this.

[solo]

by Moskal on Today, 14:59

This forum is full of paranoid russophobs who are not good enough in English... However, they consistently ignore the truth which is the fact that it was Georgian troops that killed 2000 civilians in the town of Tskhinval within 1 or 2 days, using heavy arms. They deliberately killed even women, children and the elderly. They sadistically shot the wounded and helpless peacekeepers. And all this was inspired, organized and led by the Georgian politicians, Saakashvili in the first place, under strong guiding arm of Uncle Sam from overseas.

Only later, almost a day after the Russian army invaded and - yes! - bit the shit of of the Georgian scum, for they are scum as were German nazis.

Now, the time has come. The time to pay. And you will all see very soon how Saakashvili and his ministers and MPs will stand before the international tribunal, unless they manage to kill themselves before...

This is what they have deserved and will receive!Moskal

Posts: 1
Joined: Today, 08:57


please, recall how many civilians did russian army kill in chechnia? 10000, 20000 or. . . 80000 only in grozny! and they all were citizens of russian federation! And do you know how many civilians died after russians attack in Tskhinvali and in other georgian cities, which russians bomb? any more questions? So, when talking about human rights and international tribunal, PLEASE, remember what your president, sorry, prime minister has done !

[aranar63]

I got it, he is not gutsy he is nutsy. Are you lunatic or what? perhaps one of your guns shot out your brain? Or havent you learnt history? East Berlin does not exist . Warshaw Pact does not exist, and Soviet Union becouse of internal problems, read some books. And why should we drop bombs on Alaska or enywere else? It is obvius that you know nothing about S Osetian conflict. If you think we need territory LOOK AT THE MAP!!!
And unlike you we know that just attack someone is wrong!
Anyway quit with your empty claims or create another topic, this topic is not about economy, or warmongering cowboys.

Listen you don't have to tell me that, i lived in Berlin for over 8 years, when you guys could not even go to your front door without permission, but it was not because of the grace of the Kremlin that all this countries became free, it was because back then the SU could not compete with us neither militarely not economical, as it is the case now(not because of internal problems),you should read some books about the SU implossion, it was pure economic pressure as the SU could not keep spending, what we where and still are in our military to compete with us, yes Russia is better of now then it was back then.Thanks to oil and gas not industry.
just tell me please how many foreign embassies are in South Ossetia?
When the world reconigze it as a sovereign state? show me the link, as far as maps i use google earth, and have acces to a lot more ressources then you, for sure.
If South Ossetia is not recognize by the world, then Russia is wrong attacking another country, you don't like what happend in Kosovo, why then you guys don't send the Russian army westward, it was a client state too.
Oh no they will have to go thru Poland or another EU and NATO state.
Look at your map i do not see a border between Georgia and S Ossetia in any map.
may be you guys are in need to re writte history ala Stalin, at least this will make you guys happy.

[qwerty]

he thing is, nobody cares to compete with the US financially - except the EU, probablly. No one denies that Uncle Sam is rich. I only wanted to say that this fact alone is not enough to dictate your opinion to everybody else in the world. Not anymore. You have to face it. As to consuming - you may consume as much as you like, who cares? If that's the meaning of your life, that's totally fine with me. Different priorities, is all. Only your share is shrinking day by day, and I may say you don't like it much. Well, that's understandable - who would?

Nobody cares or nobody can't, the next 5 richest countries GDP don't equal ours, thats Japan, China, Germany,the UK,France etc etc.
Cunsumerism drives the world economy, ask the Chinese, they will tell you, Walmart buys as much from China as your countries GDP
By the way if you ever understand Capitalism, uncle Sam is not rich, our federal reserve owes nothing in this country, we do the citizens, Uncle Sam just gets our Taxes, and the corporations, this is not Russia or China, by the way we do agree on no further scalation, this can't happen, my point is if your country wants to expand it should do it in a peacefull way, not by force, your goverment should be interested in making life better for people not living in Moskow or SPB, not engage in anexation of another country, it is just wastefull money, ask us we will tell you (Iraq) where we have spend 1.5 trillions dollars allready.
We don't fear the future, we embrace it, our system will take care of this.
Our share is schrinking, revise your economic data, our economy grew from 5 trillions to 13 in 8 years, and yes we have problems, but we will solve it,Capitalism has its cycles of up and downs.
i do hope that this war stop and does not scalate, under any circumstances.
But occupation will not be the end solution, you know this.

You are very quick on telling others what to do, man. Lemme tell you what you'd better do. You'd better sit in your corner and make yourself busy with your consumption-digestion. As to the system - they sometimes crack. And you got no insurance on that. It very well may be that your economy grew from 5 trillions to 13 in 8 years because you have principally been busy with drawing those 8 trillions on paper. Your aggression is outrageous, your numerous violations of the international law is unbelievable, your inner problems are huge, your mortgage economy is leaking, your international reputation is reaching bottom, your external debt is immense and your impudence is unprecedented.

[qwerty]

I got it, he is not gutsy he is nutsy. Are you lunatic or what? perhaps one of your guns shot out your brain? Or havent you learnt history? East Berlin does not exist . Warshaw Pact does not exist, and Soviet Union becouse of internal problems, read some books. And why should we drop bombs on Alaska or enywere else? It is obvius that you know nothing about S Osetian conflict. If you think we need territory LOOK AT THE MAP!!!
And unlike you we know that just attack someone is wrong!
Anyway quit with your empty claims or create another topic, this topic is not about economy, or warmongering cowboys.

Listen you don't have to tell me that, i lived in Berlin for over 8 years, when you guys could not even go to your front door without permission, but it was not because of the grace of the Kremlin that all this countries became free, it was because back then the SU could not compete with us neither militarely not economical, as it is the case now(not because of internal problems),you should read some books about the SU implossion, it was pure economic pressure as the SU could not keep spending, what we where and still are in our military to compete with us, yes Russia is better of now then it was back then.Thanks to oil and gas not industry.
just tell me please how many foreign embassies are in South Ossetia?
When the world reconigze it as a sovereign state? show me the link, as far as maps i use google earth, and have acces to a lot more ressources then you, for sure.
If South Ossetia is not recognize by the world, then Russia is wrong attacking another country, you don't like what happend in Kosovo, why then you guys don't send the Russian army westward, it was a client state too.
Oh no they will have to go thru Poland or another EU and NATO state.
Look at your map i do not see a border between Georgia and S Ossetia in any map.
may be you guys are in need to re writte history ala Stalin, at least this will make you guys happy.

These argument reminds me very much of Reagan-inspired yuppie. This era is a history - became a history while you were making yourself busy with consumption. You are a history, man. The world has changed, can't you see it? Your worldview stinks.

[SiD]

aranar63 that is wrong topic for desputes about cold war,SU and economy so i will quit first becouse dont want to make more flood.
Lets stick to the subject.
With all your resources you cant learn that when Georgia decleared itself independent S Osetia and Abchazia did the same thing and were attacked by Georgia? They stood for themselves and war was over wenn Georgian, Russian and S Osetian peacekeepers were placed there.
You cant see borders of South Osetia but they were INDEPENDENT IN PRACTICE. They requested independance many times but were denied. They were not part of georgia. They have thier own state for more than 10 years.
So Saakashvili decided that he can gain control over small unrecognized country by force smashing S Osetians and Russian peacekeepers. He was warned long before what would such action mean but he didnt cared. Or parhaps he thought he will be suported by US or thought that Russia will not protect its people.
His aggression costed dearly to S Osetian people but all the talks are about Russian so called aggression.
Tell me if some country attacked Kosovo killing civilians, peacekeepers and destroyng everything in thier way would you approve use of military to save them? Would you care about how small attacking country is?

[aranar63]

These argument reminds me very much of Reagan-inspired yuppie. This era is a history - became a history while you were making yourself busy with consumption. You are a history, man. The world has changed, can't you see it? Your worldview stinks.

Oh yes and the big bad Russian bear is about to over take us, look around you, but a leats your a right that history, get it the SU is no more and as much as Russia has oil and Gas nothing more, i do not see your country leading in anything else, sad for a well developed rich intelligent people, with a history of accomplishment in science.
What happend when e consume, we get rich, and a bunch of other countries do, why is it that the whole world wants a piece of the US market? even Russia beg to be included in the WTO, why is it that it is call the G7 and Russia and not the G8.
I have being in your country several times and not only in Moskow and SPB, but even this cities do not compare with the big American cities, and they won't talk when your countrie is not a emergin market but a economic power, mean while we will keep consuming anybody else ressources, we are only 300 million people consuming 30 to 40% of the world ressources, an we do not use ours, no need to.
We have no need to anex another country to demostrate our power, nor do we want to. By the way is Mr:Reagan who brought the SU down you guys schould build a monument to him in red square, without him, you will be still in need of papers to go from the front of your house to the supermarket, remember that.

[aranar63]

Sid, i do not approve on any country attacking another, if such country has not being attack,as in this case, i am still waiting for you to tell me how many foreig embassies are in the so call by you South Ossetia state.
why they don't have a UN delegation? if they are a Independent State, tell me please.
an autonoumus region is not the same as an independent state, or like you call it client State.

[qwerty]

Once more, S. Ossetia became a part of Georgia under Stalin in 1924 (or around that time). In the USSR it had a special status of independent land affiliated with Georgia. When the USSR disappeared, according to the new constitution they received the right to declare independence. This they did in 1992, but was assaulted by Georgian forces which initiated a real massacre there. Ossetians culturally, ethnically, linguistically different from Georgia. They don't want to become a part of Georgia. This land is not Georgian and cannot be recognized as such in any imaginable way. Isn't that enough to let them be? Of course, if some big ass like Bush sees the nation as a part of his CONSUMPTION plans - that of course sounds very democratic to approve its annexion by the forces of their neighbor country which in a very democratic way has been fed with American credits and weapons for 5 years. This is very logical, you see. I wonder when have you managed to consume your conscience - and didn't even noticed it?

[Caucasus]

[color=#FF0040]Mr:Reagan who brought the SU down you guys schould build a monument to him in red square, without him, you will be still in need of papers to go from the front of your house to the supermarket, remember that.

The "papers" ( I think you mean special tickets for regulation of the buying several types of goods) appeared AFTER the fall of USSR. Of course they existed at the period of Great Patriotic War (WWII) and some time after it. You need to study history and talk to peole who saw this by their own eyes.

http://www.georgia-lies.narod.ru The truth about the war in Georgia

[qwerty]

These argument reminds me very much of Reagan-inspired yuppie. This era is a history - became a history while you were making yourself busy with consumption. You are a history, man. The world has changed, can't you see it? Your worldview stinks.

Oh yes and the big bad Russian bear is about to over take us, look around you, but a leats your a right that history, get it the SU is no more and as much as Russia has oil and Gas nothing more, i do not see your country leading in anything else, sad for a well developed rich intelligent people, with a history of accomplishment in science.
What happend when e consume, we get rich, and a bunch of other countries do, why is it that the whole world wants a piece of the US market? even Russia beg to be included in the WTO, why is it that it is call the G7 and Russia and not the G8.
I have being in your country several times and not only in Moskow and SPB, but even this cities do not compare with the big American cities, and they won't talk when your countrie is not a emergin market but a economic power, mean while we will keep consuming anybody else ressources, we are only 300 million people consuming 30 to 40% of the world ressources, an we do not use ours, no need to.
We have no need to anex another country to demostrate our power, nor do we want to. By the way is Mr:Reagan who brought the SU down you guys schould build a monument to him in red square, without him, you will be still in need of papers to go from the front of your house to the supermarket, remember that.

Gush, can't you think in another categories? No one wants to overtake you anymore. You are your own enemy. It's just that your opinion - in spite of your cowboy purse - don't matter much any more. Can't you see? Others have geopolitical interests and you have to take it into account, that's all.

[aranar63]

again how many foreign embassies are in South Ossettia? and why they don't have a UN delegation? i don't want to know what Stalin or any other Russian premier did.
How many embassies are in South Ossetia, for ex in Kosovo they are embassies from the EU and the US and other countries, that is a sovereign recognize state. I am still waiting

[qwerty]

[quote="aranar63"]These argument reminds me very much of Reagan-inspired yuppie. This era is a history - became a history while you were making yourself busy with consumption. You are a history, man. The world has changed, can't you see it? Your worldview stinks.

...mean while we will keep consuming anybody else ressources, we are only 300 million people consuming 30 to 40% of the world ressources, an we do not use ours, no need to.

if a frequency word list of your texts here was compiled, the word consumption would undoubtedly be the first. Do you think of anything else at all? Homo Intestinum rectum.

[aranar63]

Gush, can't you think in another categories? No one wants to overtake you anymore. You are your own enemy. It's just that your opinion - in spite of your cowboy purse - don't matter much any more. Can't you see? Others have geopolitical interests and you have to take it into account, that's all.

Geopolitical interest thats the word, today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, next Kazakhastan and so on, it looks like Hitler revisited