Georgia and South Ossetia at war

[Eka]

War was neededfor russians first of all. My opinion is that as usualy during wars some 5-10 people becames bilioneers and you know what make me to think so?
Condition of russia army I am observing in Georgia. They must be feeded, they mest have normal hygen and normal clothing .butto look at them is so difficult. They are like beggers, some of themare asking bread at water to georgains in villages, mostly they are not asking but taking it with force. They look ill. As my friens who is nurse in Village igoeti said to me many of them have severe diahrea, perhaps they are eating many frutes with durty heands. ( fruits are thie main food here). I suppose some people are becoming reacher and reacher as thiscampein is going ahead, because rusiian army is financed well and someone is not giving supplies to army but having villas in france?

So corraption is huge as I understand and it will turn back.

(If it is true, i wery much doubt it)They may be asking or teaking bread or water or whanever not for themselves, or they given thier own food to S Osetians whom you left with nothing among ruins.

By the way you georgians always say that our soldiers and generals are drunk, parhaps they counted on your food and taken more vodka instead :lol: . ( Just kidding)

YOU are so naiv! and full of humore! I am not so smart in computer so it is diffucult for me to put pictures and films here but it will be so funny to observe for you how russian solger was sleeping in the Gori street near stolen musical center and another one with stolen bycicle, which was to small for him. I suppose they dont carry much about Tskinvali citizens feeding problems, because they eat those small peaces of food they steel from Georgians directly in the streets with unwashed, durty hands and doing it before cameras as well.

You know it is some times even funny. But they are people and human rights organization in Gorega will I suppose be very concerned about there working and living conditions that is more close to animals then respectfull people. But it is not there fault it is fualt of there corapted goverment. They have only cheep vodka which is very low quality and causes some times in heavy poisonings. But there organizm can stand this because they are doing this from early childhood.

[independent]

So NATO is backing Finland as FInland is doing the same.Of course very wise from your govermant.

We are co-operating with NATO thats true, You might also find interesting that we are co-operating
with russian military as well, I believe that few days ago almost every normal people was worrying
because of situation in Georgia. Wars are never welcome.

And I can't argue - we always have a wise government - we choose it ourself :livre .

[SiD]

This war made it clear that Russia is: 1) an aggressor number 1 in the world, it carrys a real threat to the post soviet countries and not only to them, 2)Its word and agreement are worth nth and it can breach it any time, any where with any one.
Just for information: it's Monday night and Russian army does not show the signs of withdrawl , they are just changing its position, bombing Senaki military base, but before that taking eth which could be taken with them. The beggar soldiers still begging, their tanks ruining Georgian police cars, as the latest refused to give them the way to the village Russians were heading to, their general clearly saying: "I don't care about your opinion, my tanks will run away your cars" said - done.
30 generals awarded today by the president Putin today, TOP OF CYNISM AND BRUTALITY! BUT THAT'S RUSSIA, GUYS!
The refugees from Abkhazia residing in Senaki, these same people today are becoming the refugees from Senaki, because this time again Medieval Barbarian beggars destroy the roof above their heads!
And that dummy general - today on CNN LIVE: caught by the journalist admitting that yes South Osetia( but you know, I wont call it South Osetia for now on as it is Samachablo and it is Georgia indeed) is Georgia and they will keep their forces in its territory! God, such an idiot! Then realising what he said he corrected his words! What a shame!
But what is clear and obvious is that now we are near to NATO than ever, so let's pray that tomorrow eth will go well.

Sorry but can you tell were did you larnt that "30 generals awarded today by the president Putin".

[Eka]

So NATO is backing Finland as FInland is doing the same.Of course very wise from your govermant.

We are co-operating with NATO thats true, You might also find interesting that we are co-operating
with russian military as well, I believe that few days ago almost every normal people was worrying
because that situation. Wars are never welcome.

And I can't argue - we always have a wise government - we choose it ourself :livre .

Co-operation of NAto ( you meen this?) and Russian is seriosly under question. I can not find now article were is stated that Russian navy military forces were withdrowed from some NATO joint event already because of last events in Georgia. Si I think Finlands wise goverment is of same opinion.

[Tamar]

It was in news today and Russia was and is still presided but Putin, Medvedev doesn't count, I wont repeat what I once mentioned and often heard these days from all TV channels that Russia has 2 presidents, no, there is only one and uncomparable in a very bad way, Russian way - Putin.

[Tamar]

Sorry I will make a correction, not generals but soldiers.

[SiD]

It was in news today and Russia was and is still presided but Putin, Medvedev doesn't count, I wont repeat what I once mentioned and often heard these days from all TV channels that Russia has 2 presidents, no, there is only one and uncomparable in a very bad way, Russian way - Putin.

In Vladikavkaz, near the border with Georgia, Medvedev gave medals to 30 soldiers and servicemen involved in the conflict. Parhaps you talking about this? If you do than you must know that you treat facts very uncerfully.

[Tamar]

Dear Sid, please see my correction before posting. I meant soldiers but wrote generals. As to Medvedev and Putin tricky game, please see the previous page, will you?

[independent]

Co-operation of NAto ( you meen this?) and Russian is seriosly under question. I can not find now article were is stated that Russian navy military forces were withdrowed from some NATO joint event already because of last events in Georgia. Si I think Finlands wise goverment is of same opinion.

It is however no problem for us, because we choose ourself the level of co-operation as well as
missions etc. With russians we have mostly some shared trainings.
But hey - this topic is not about us. So might be this is a little out of topic ! I told about Ahvenanmaa
only because it was an good example how democracy should work ( and as an answer to Mariams guestion)
- my meaning was not to change subject.

[Lor]

Co-operation of NAto ( you meen this?) and Russian is seriosly under question. I can not find now article were is stated that Russian navy military forces were withdrowed from some NATO joint event already because of last events in Georgia. Si I think Finlands wise goverment is of same opinion.

It is however no problem for us, because we choose ourself the level of co-operation as well as
missions etc. With russians we have mostly some shared trainings.
But hey - this topic is not about us. So might be this is a little out of topic ! I told about Ahvenanmaa
only because it was an good example how democracy should work ( and as an answer to Mariams guestion)
- my meaning was not to change subject.

I was about to point that out!! This topic is about Georgia and Russia!
So Independent don't you want Georgians to live in a democratic country like yourself? Don't you think that they deserve a better life?

[T.T.]

People, simply try to not be blind and "believe in what you want to believe" if some Russians feel guilty about what is going on in Georgia, they should say it, that they are feeling sorry, or at least stop and do not try to justify their government's actions. It is not a shame to admit if one's government is wrong, but for sure it is shame to be "blind" towards reality! If you don't know about Russians' actions ( and probably those who post some very smart ideas here do not actually know what is going on) then you can read posts from those who are living now under "Russian Terror". Oh and of course, you all can check Mass Media, I was actually thinking of putting some other links for those who are reading only russian media, but then I've realized that it is quite an easy search to find other media sources as well, but of course if one is willing to do so, and those who are not willing to search other media will not check even the links which I could past here....

I know in those situations, for those not involved, it is hard to tell who is right,( I am saying this just to try understand all those people who say very interesting points about what is going on) but in fact if one makes analyzes based on thinking and not only based on feelings, it is very much possible to see the simple logic.

Now talking about feelings, those of you who think that are making a deep "thinking" maybe it would be also good to think about some feelings and just ask yourself "what a brave reason could justify Russians bombing a Hospital?" there are many more real examples but I think this one is enough, realizing that in this hospital there were given help -> Georgians, Russians and Ossetians!!!.... Not enough example to think about "who is doing what?" still thinking -> "Russia defending its people...?" ok then what about those who made decision to send Russian Peace-Keepers to Bomb Georgian territories which are not in any relation to South OSsetia? ok I am sure you all can find a map and check bombed places (no need to check it on mass-media sites) and then think your own (no need to hear what journalist thinks about it) and do Not forget that in all those areas there are also Russians Living! ... do you really think it is a MUST to bomb civilian houses in order to defend Russians? (those who are actually bombing that houses?) very interesting, so russians defending its civilians means russians killing its civilians? (in hospital and cities are many russians, to make it short and clear)

Listening to news (whichever) I feel pity towards all the people who died....and plus I feel pity for all those so called "peace-keepers" which is russian military, which is so poor that is stealing forks, toilets, searching garbage to find some used Phone cards and trying to second time use it etc etc... and i feel pity towards the man who was ordered to go on duty and bomb Georgia( with what reason?), while he had a document of retirement, which means he was not even supposed to work, while his government sent him to bomb a civilian house... very interesting and do not forget we are already living in 21st century...

and of course, I understand a very simple fact of human natur "it is always easy to talk about situation in which other's are, while when one has to pass through it ownself, then talks in a different way" so for all that kind of people, who are talking from aside, I wish to never experience what all those people in Georgia are experiencing because of Russian politics ( I do not say Russians, because I am sure it is not the will of whole nation, to destroy all other nations around and in universe (maybe?) ), to never experience situation when one doesn't need to check any mass-media to see if Russian politics have thrown any other bomb, because that person is just woken up by shaking house and sound of the bomb that fell just next to living area....

which other country should trust Politician, who says one and its army is doing another ? that is President saying that the army will leave Georgian territory, but they are still on that territory? should international community think that Military is no in accordance with its main leader and do not obey their own president? or should the society think that the leader is trying to fool international society? or what else?

may you all live a peaceful life and of course an open-minded and logic life! life which is worth living and life which is not taken away because of politician's ambitions!

[Lor]

Sid you completely misunderstood me! I am not pro Georgian, nor Anti-Russian. All i am is a EU citizen concerned about a country whose citizens are being killed due to a political game.

I think this Russian agression should stop but as things are going, MONDAY evening and your troops are still there!! If you are concerned about a region gaining their independence than why, within your own borders didn't have the same concern? Why didn't you give independence to Chechnya, but you're so concerned about South Ossetia! For me this is called DOUBLE STANDARDS and that's why i can't support Russia on this one!

[independent]

So Independent don't you want Georgians to live in a democratic country like yourself? Don't you think that they deserve a better life?

YES YES and YES - absolutely. And I even feel a little bit guilty because we all are kind of responsible
what have happened. ( EU, US, Russia). We should be able to give realistic view of consequence of every
choice we ask You to do. And we wasn't honest against You. With correct information this might have been
avoided - don't You think ?

[Eka]

Co-operation of NAto ( you meen this?) and Russian is seriosly under question. I can not find now article were is stated that Russian navy military forces were withdrowed from some NATO joint event already because of last events in Georgia. Si I think Finlands wise goverment is of same opinion.

It is however no problem for us, because we choose ourself the level of co-operation as well as
missions etc. With russians we have mostly some shared trainings.
But hey - this topic is not about us. So might be this is a little out of topic ! I told about Ahvenanmaa
only because it was an good example how democracy should work ( and as an answer to Mariams guestion)
- my meaning was not to change subject.

INdependant
i am realy interested in Finland for some pesonal reasons and knew some of finlands. Deffinitly you are not finish. Your manner of arguing and discussion is more russian. :-) :-)

NOrdic countries have very interesting roots of realtions with Russia and this raltions in past very qiute tensed. At this time everything is OK and it is great. you are living in very good society which is best example of tolerance and civil society is strongest in Europe so for us Goergians your history of realtions with Russia and your tremendous democratic society is very importanat. To be speciphic you are first finiish which have so different ideas from those I meet. It is out of topic but sometimes it is important and interesting to go deeper in conversation.

[independent]

NOrdic countries have very interesting roots of realtions with Russia and this raltions in past very qiute tensed. At this time everything is OK and it is great. you are living in very good society which is best example of tolerance and civil society is strongest in Europe so for us Goergians your history of realtions with Russia and your tremendous democratic society is very importanat. To be speciphic you are first finiish which have so different ideas from those I meet. It is out of topic but sometimes it is important and interesting to go deeper in conversation.

You know also that is out of topic - it really doesn't matter what You believe.

[Lor]

Independent,if you care for the welfare of people, do you agree with the Russian troops not withdrawing from Georgia? I want to remind you that our EU president gave a time line... by MONDAY. This is disrespectful towards our president since the Russian leader promised him to withdraw today!! Don't you think that Medvedev has NO word and lost all respect? What respect can i have towards a person that PROMISED twice to withdraw and STILL didn't happen?????? :quoi

[Mariam]

Co-operation of NAto ( you meen this?) and Russian is seriosly under question. I can not find now article were is stated that Russian navy military forces were withdrowed from some NATO joint event already because of last events in Georgia. Si I think Finlands wise goverment is of same opinion.

It is however no problem for us, because we choose ourself the level of co-operation as well as
missions etc. With russians we have mostly some shared trainings.
But hey - this topic is not about us. So might be this is a little out of topic ! I told about Ahvenanmaa
only because it was an good example how democracy should work ( and as an answer to Mariams guestion)
- my meaning was not to change subject.

I was about to point that out!! This topic is about Georgia and Russia!
So Independent don't you want Georgians to live in a democratic country like yourself? Don't you think that they deserve a better life?

HE probably dreams about Georgian florishing I hope? DOn't u indefendent?

Well I totally agree with u and with IamGeorgia with the idea that the topic of this theme has to be changed. THIS topic is RUSSIA AND GEORGIA AT WAR, ruther then that one. Let's vote :-)

[SiD]

Sid you completely misunderstood me! I am not pro Georgian, nor Anti-Russian. All i am is a EU citizen concerned about a country whose citizens are being killed due to a political game.

I think this Russian agression should stop but as things are going, MONDAY evening and your troops are still there!! If you are concerned about a region gaining their independence than why, within your own borders didn't have the same concern? Why didn't you give independence to Chechnya, but you're so concerned about South Ossetia! For me this is called DOUBLE STANDARDS and that's why i can't support Russia on this one!

Georgia helped US to occupie Iraq but you can support them. Did you heard about any man from Iraq taking hostages in Georgia or killing its citizens? Parhaps Iraq invaded in Georgia? No. Parhaps we can ewen call sending troops by Georgia into Iraq aggression?
So you must choose after all. If our actions in Chechnya are wrong than Georgian in S Osetia either. If they are so similar than that mean you support independance of S Osetia and Abchazia?

[independent]

Independent,if you care for the welfare of people, do you agree with the Russian troops not withdrawing from Georgia? I want to remind you that our EU president gave a time line... by MONDAY. This is disrespectful towards our president since the Russian leader promised him to withdraw today!! Don't you think that Medvedev has NO word and lost all respect? What respect can i have towards a person that PROMISED twice to withdraw and STILL didn't happen?????? :quoi

They should withdraw imediately (my opinion) . Legally they are however commited only to began to do
so today. And in reality it's all about US and Russia flexing muscles to each other ( Russia showing that it
don't care what US demands and US trying to show that they can order Russia to do so = sick show).
However I'm 100% sure they will mostly withdraw during few days ( but not all units - it will take some
more show to watch )

[Mariam]

NOrdic countries have very interesting roots of realtions with Russia and this raltions in past very qiute tensed. At this time everything is OK and it is great. you are living in very good society which is best example of tolerance and civil society is strongest in Europe so for us Goergians your history of realtions with Russia and your tremendous democratic society is very importanat. To be speciphic you are first finiish which have so different ideas from those I meet. It is out of topic but sometimes it is important and interesting to go deeper in conversation.

You know also that is out of topic - it really doesn't matter what You believe.
Mutta tietysti saat minun puolestani pitää oman mielipiteesi. Enpä oikein usko sinun juttujasi minäkään - niin että tasoissa ollaan.... Väittely ilman yhtään järkevää argumenttia osoittaa typeryytesi.

ONCE AN FINELLY STOP LET"S AGREE NOT TO WRITE IN A DIFFERENT (mother or similar) languages rather then ENGLISH. It will be CHaotic and Offensive. AGREED?

[Mariam]

Sid you completely misunderstood me! I am not pro Georgian, nor Anti-Russian. All i am is a EU citizen concerned about a country whose citizens are being killed due to a political game.

I think this Russian agression should stop but as things are going, MONDAY evening and your troops are still there!! If you are concerned about a region gaining their independence than why, within your own borders didn't have the same concern? Why didn't you give independence to Chechnya, but you're so concerned about South Ossetia! For me this is called DOUBLE STANDARDS and that's why i can't support Russia on this one!

Georgia helped US to occupie Iraq but you can support them. Did you heard about any man from Iraq taking hostages in Georgia or killing its citizens? Parhaps Iraq invaded in Georgia? No. Parhaps we can ewen call sending troops by Georgia into Iraq aggression?
So you must choose after all. If our actions in Chechnya are wrong than Georgian in S Osetia either. If they are so similar than that mean you support independance of S Osetia and Abchazia?

YOU ARE SPREADING HERE WRONG INFORMATION. GEORGIAN MILITARISTS ENTERED INTO IRAQ WHEN THE WAR WAS OVER. MISSION WAS PEACEKEEPRES> U SEEMS EITHER HAVE NO IDEA WHAT U ARE SAYING AR DOING IT ON PURPOSE. OK IT"S ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[independent]

ONCE AN FINELLY STOP LET"S AGREE NOT TO WRITE IN A DIFFERENT (mother or similar) languages rather then ENGLISH. It will be CHaotic and Offensive. AGREED?

I apologize, my fault - I just got angry of arguing again over my nationality. I will remove it :oops:

[Mariam]

Independent,if you care for the welfare of people, do you agree with the Russian troops not withdrawing from Georgia? I want to remind you that our EU president gave a time line... by MONDAY. This is disrespectful towards our president since the Russian leader promised him to withdraw today!! Don't you think that Medvedev has NO word and lost all respect? What respect can i have towards a person that PROMISED twice to withdraw and STILL didn't happen?????? :quoi

They should withdraw imediately (my opinion) . Legally they are however commited only to began to do
so today. And in reality it's all about US and Russia flexing muscles to each other ( Russia showing that it
don't care what US demands and US trying to show that they can order Russia to do so = sick show).
However I'm 100% sure they will mostly withdraw during few days ( but not all units - it will take some
more show to watch )

According to your reveiw Russians try to show that they don't obey to anyone. OK US is their nightmare and it wil be always like this. BUT what will u say ebout EU. Merkel twice requested and Sarkozi 3 times. HOw do u think isn't it enough?

[Grid]

DOUBLE STANDARDS

Russian double standards against US and EU double standarts.
I'm Belorussian. And I'm on Russia side. For me it looks like you listen only to your mass medias. I can explain my point of view (if you want to read).
1. Georgia first attacked Ossetia. Georgians had killed 1600 civilian people in one night. They used multiple launch rocket system against Chinvali. There is no way to precisely control such weapon. It just covers territory and kills everything. It's antihumanistic! 1600 dead civileans in one night! It's just bloody terror. Mikheil Saakashvili should visit The Hague.
2. Russia doesn't attack civilians on Georgia territory. It bombs military bases to suppress Georgian army. So it's clear - there is no aggression against folk (like Georgian did).
3. And about double standards. If people of Ossetia have the same rights as Kosovo people have, then they should have possibility to vote for an independent life. Russia has double standards, but I see that EU and specially US also have. If US supports killers around the world then they are just aggressive animals.
Firs I see : US aggression to Russia through Georgia and genocide of Ossetia with support of propaganda. And only after it I see Russian aggression. Is it democracy to export and adapt?

[independent]

According to your reveiw Russians try to show that they don't obey to anyone. OK US is their nightmare and it wil be always like this. BUT what will u say ebout EU. Merkel twice requested and Sarkozi 3 times. HOw do u think isn't it enough?

I guess that without US ordering they to obey - they might have already withdrawed. Because EU kind of
kindly asked them to leave. I really think that it is not the best way to "order" russians to do something.
They are pretty proud people.