Georgia and South Ossetia at war

[Dmitry]

We can do anything we want to...and nobody can prevent us. Stop cheep from the other side of the ocean. Come and stop us. We will free Ossetia and Serbia...You are simply afraid ))))) yraaaaaa!!!

[Balkaneese]

We can do anything we want to...and nobody can prevent us. Stop cheep from the other side of the ocean. Come and stop us. We will free Ossetia and Serbia...You are simply afraid ))))) yraaaaaa!!!

Bro, you should not free us in Serbia.

We should free ourselves by ourselves.

But you could help a lot. You just did. Our harts are joyous and the blood is boiling.

[Frederic]

This is the recent report of HRW

Georgia: Civilians Killed by Russian Cluster Bomb ‘Duds’
More Attacks Confirmed; Unexploded Ordnance Threatens Many
(Tbilisi, August 21, 2008) – Georgian and Russian authorities should take urgent measures to protect the civilian population in Georgian villages from unexploded ordnance left by Russian attacks, Human Rights Watch said today. Human Rights Watch researchers documented additional Russian cluster munitions attacks during the conflict in Georgia, refuting Russia’s earlier denials that it used the weapon.
Human Rights Watch researchers saw and photographed unexploded submunitions from cluster munitions in and around the villages of Shindisi, in the Gori district of Georgia. Residents from Shindisi and the nearby Pkhvenisi village told Human Rights Watch researchers there are hundreds of unexploded submunitions in the area. Submunition “duds” are highly dangerous and can explode if picked up or otherwise disturbed.

“Many people have died because of Russia’s use of cluster munitions in Georgia, even as Moscow denied it had used this barbaric weapon,” said Marc Garlasco, senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch. “Many more people could be killed or wounded unless Russia allows professional demining organizations to enter at once to clean the affected areas.”

Witnesses told Human Rights Watch that on August 8, 2008, Russian air strikes on Georgian armored units located near Shindisi and Pkhvenisi were followed by extensive cluster munition strikes that killed at least one civilian and injured another in Shindisi. At least two more civilians were killed and five wounded in the following days when they handled unexploded submunitions, including an incident 10 days after the initial strikes. As of August 20, Shindisi and Pkhvenisi areas remain under Russian control.


Zviad Geladze, 38, points to a cluster munition strike on the path to his farm field. © 2008 Human Rights Watch
Human Rights Watch called upon Russia to immediately stop using cluster munitions, weapons so dangerous to civilians that more than 100 nations have agreed to ban their use. Human Rights Watch also called on Russia to provide precise strike data on its cluster attacks in order to facilitate cleanup of areas contaminated by submunitions. Human Rights Watch called on Georgia to undertake an immediate risk education program for its population, including radio and television announcements about the dangers of submunitions.

In Shindisi, Human Rights Watch researchers saw unexploded dual purpose (anti-armor and antipersonnel) submunitions, commonly known as Dual-Purpose Improved Conventional Munition (DPICM) submunitions.

“Highly dangerous unexploded bomblets now litter farms, roads, and pathways in Shindisi and Pkhvenisi,” said Garlasco. “People remaining in these areas don’t realize the dangers these submunitions pose and are at serious risk of injury or death if they handle, or even approach, the bomblets.”

Human Rights Watch first reported on Russian use of cluster munitions in Georgia on August 15, after it identified strikes on Gori and Ruisi on August 12 that killed at least 11 civilians and injured dozens more. Russia subsequently denied any use of cluster munitions. Colonel General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy head of the Russian General Staff, stated on August 15, “We did not use cluster bombs, and what’s more, there was absolutely no necessity to do so.”

Unexploded Russian submunitions found by Human Rights Watch researchers in Shindisi, a village in the Gori region of Georgia. These submunition "duds" are highly dangerous and can explode if picked up or otherwise disturbed. © 2008 Human Rights Watch

Zura Tatrishvili, 62, showed Human Rights Watch researchers an unexploded submunition that he had picked up without realizing that just touching it could make it explode. “We were playing with them, as were the Georgian soldiers,” said Tatrishvili. “It was only when one of the bombs exploded after a soldier threw it that we understood that they were dangerous.” Even now, Tatrishvili continues to keep his livestock in a pen with unexploded submunitions, demonstrating the need for clearance as well as education.

During the attack on August 8 in Shindisi, Vano Gogidze, 45, was killed and his relative, Dato Gogidze, 39, was injured. Also in Shindisi, Ramaz Arabashvili, 40, was killed and four people were wounded when a submunition that they had gathered from a field exploded on August 10. On August 18, in Pkhvenisi, Veliko Bedianashvili, 70, died when a submunition exploded in his hand. “There are so many of these lying around. The fields are full of them,” said his son, Durmiskhan Bedianashvili.

Zviad Geladze, 38, showed Human Rights Watch researchers fields contaminated with submunitions. He estimated the submunitions covered an area extending at least one kilometer through his farm. The fields are full of produce ready to harvest. Because humanitarian agencies continue to lack access to much of the Gori region, fields like Geladze’s may provide residents of the region with their only food source.

Cluster munitions contain dozens or hundreds of smaller submunitions or bomblets and cause unacceptable humanitarian harm in two ways. First, their broad-area effect kills and injures civilians indiscriminately during strikes. Second, many submunitions do not explode, becoming de facto landmines that cause civilian casualties for months or years to come.

Under international humanitarian law, indiscriminate attacks including attacks in populated areas with weapons that cannot be targeted solely at military targets are prohibited. Russia has an obligation not only to cease any such attacks, but also to take all necessary measures now to ensure the safety of the civilian population in areas over which it exercises effective control.

Human Rights Watch called on Georgia, which is known to have cluster munitions in its stockpiles, to join the international move to ban the use of cluster munitions and to publicly undertake not to use such weapons in this conflict. Neither Russia nor Georgia was part of the Oslo Process launched in February 2007 to develop a new international treaty banning cluster munitions. In May 2008, 107 nations adopted the Convention on Cluster Munitions, which comprehensively bans the use, production, trade and stockpiling of the weapon. It will be open for signature in Oslo on December 3.

[Lor]

We can do anything we want to...and nobody can prevent us. Stop cheep from the other side of the ocean. Come and stop us. We will free Ossetia and Serbia...You are simply afraid ))))) yraaaaaa!!!

That's the Russian attitude i'm talking about!!!! :banghead :nonnon

SiD aren't you ashamed of your compatriots' fascist statements?? They even added URRRAAAA! OMG!! It's SCARY!!!!

[Balkaneese]

We can do anything we want to...and nobody can prevent us. Stop cheep from the other side of the ocean. Come and stop us. We will free Ossetia and Serbia...You are simply afraid ))))) yraaaaaa!!!

That's the Russian attitude i'm talking about!!!! :banghead :nonnon

SiD aren't you ashamed of your compatriots' fascist statements?? They even added URRRAAAA! OMG!! It's SCARY!!!!

You should learn to live on the other side of fear, just like I did.

[Dmitry]

We should free ourselves by ourselves.

Why don`t you do that... I respect Serbians very much...But I can not nnderstand how could you betray your ex-president... ((((

[Balkaneese]

We should free ourselves by ourselves.

Why don`t you do that... I respect Serbians very much...But I can not nnderstand how could you betray your ex-president... ((((

We have a lot of scum and dirt among us.

We'll take care of it in a due time.

Just keep rising and shining, Mother Russia!

[Dmitry]

We have a lot of scum and dirt among us.

We'll take care of it in a due time.

Just keep rising and shining, Mother Russia!

Ok, just call us and we will come, we will!!!!

[Balkaneese]

This is the recent report of HRW

HRW is a laughter.

They were engaged in unsuccessful covering up of the murder of late Slobodan Milosevic, ex-president of Serbia and Yugoslavia, in the Hague.

[Balkaneese]

We have a lot of scum and dirt among us.

We'll take care of it in a due time.

Just keep rising and shining, Mother Russia!

Ok, just call us and we will come, we will!!!!

Bro, once we stand up, and Greeks stand up, of course you'll come! You always did.

We'll then establish our Empire and crown Tzar Vladimir the Magnificent!

[Frederic]

This is the recent report of HRW

HRW is a laughter.

They were engaged in unsuccessful covering up of the murder of late Slobodan Milosevic, ex-president of Serbia and Yugoslavia, in the Hague.

Can you recommend me another unbiased independent organization to rely on their information. As far as I know the russian point of view in this conflict is only shared by hamaz, hesbola, fidel castro and lukashenko. Do you know any reliable human rights agency, which will be acceptable for the leaders of this countries.

[Dmitry]

SiD aren't you ashamed of your compatriots' fascist statements?? They even added URRRAAAA! OMG!! It's SCARY!!!!

And we added that when we freed the world from the fascists during the II World War. And we will do that when NATO forces try to occupy Russia...It's SCARY!!! FOR YOU first!!!!

[Frederic]

SiD aren't you ashamed of your compatriots' fascist statements?? They even added URRRAAAA! OMG!! It's SCARY!!!!

And we added that when we freed the world from the fascists during the II World War. And we will do that when NATO forces try to occupy Russia...It's SCARY!!! FOR YOU first!!!!

Europe was not freed from fascists by Russians. A lot pf peoples of different nationalities took part in it. By the way 300 000 Georgians died in Second WW. And dont forget about your allies.

[Lor]

We have a lot of scum and dirt among us.

We'll take care of it in a due time.

Just keep rising and shining, Mother Russia!

Ok, just call us and we will come, we will!!!!

Bro, once we stand up, and Greeks stand up, of course you'll come! You always did.

We'll then establish our Empire and crown Tzar Vladimir the Magnificent!

:deg This is getting SICK!! You guys should go on a forum called ResurectionofUSSR.com and leave us, EU people to talk about peace, and to support the victims, since you hate us soooo much!!!

[Balkaneese]

As far as I know the russian point of view in this conflict is only shared by hamaz, hesbola, fidel castro and lukashenko. Do you know any reliable human rights agency, which will be acceptable for the leaders of this countries.

You forgot Hugo Chavez.

And hundreds of millions throughout the world waiting for Russia to rise and shine.

[Balkaneese]

Europe was not freed from fascists by Russians. A lot pf peoples of different nationalities took part in it. By the way 300 000 Georgians died in Second WW. And dont forget about your allies.

ROAFL.

Yes, and Germans were stopped at Tbilisi, not in front of Moscow and Stalingrad.

[Balkaneese]

:deg This is getting SICK!! You guys should go on a forum called ResurectionofUSSR.com and leave us, EU people to talk about peace, and to support the victims, since you hate us soooo much!!!

We comply with the board rules, don't we?

There will be peace. Freedom just needs to come first.

And Holly Mother Russia brings Freedom.

[Lor]

SiD aren't you ashamed of your compatriots' fascist statements?? They even added URRRAAAA! OMG!! It's SCARY!!!!

And we added that when we freed the world from the fascists during the II World War. And we will do that when NATO forces try to occupy Russia...It's SCARY!!! FOR YOU first!!!!

Europe was not freed from fascists by Russians. A lot pf peoples of different nationalities took part in it. By the way 300 000 Georgians died in Second WW. And dont forget about your allies.

uper When it comes to WWII I always hear Russians talking as they fought in their on their own!! It's ok, that's why they were thought in school!!! ALL the countries in Europe LOST hundred million of people!!! Because that's what war is!!! But in some pervert way you seem to like it!! I see you want to start a 3rd WW! That's why is scary!!

Plus WWII happened 60 years ago!!! Get over it, Mother Theresa!!!! Why don't you think about the people Stalin killed afterwards? In USSR?

Hey Balkan Boy!! Wake up!!! Greece will never join Russia in this non-sense!! They are against the Russian aggression in Georgia as much as they were for Serbia!!! So dream on!

[Dmitry]

And we added that when we freed the world from the fascists during the II World War. And we will do that when NATO forces try to occupy Russia...It's SCARY!!! FOR YOU first!!!!

Europe was not freed from fascists by Russians. A lot pf peoples of different nationalities took part in it. By the way 300 000 Georgians died in Second WW. And dont forget about your allies.

I know that...but some countries at present don`t want to believe that Russians did that too...they think we were fascists...About 20 000 000 Russians died in that war. They destroyed our monuments and mass graves. We withdrawn our forces from many countries to show that THE COLD WAR was over...but now American troops are there...and American troops entered Ossetia with the flag of Georgia...

[Frederic]

As far as I know the russian point of view in this conflict is only shared by hamaz, hesbola, fidel castro and lukashenko. Do you know any reliable human rights agency, which will be acceptable for the leaders of this countries.

You forgot Hugo Chavez.

And hundreds of millions throughout the world waiting for Russia to rise and shine.

You are relly very intersting guy. Good luck to you, I hope you ar not posting from mental house and simply jocking. Have a good time then. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Balkaneese]

ALL the countries in Europe LOST hundred million of people!!!

Can you provide us a link to support your claim? Hint: there is wikipedia listing of number of victims.

Hey Balkan Boy!! Wake up!!! Greece will never join Russia in this non-sense!! They are against the Russian aggression in Georgia as much as they were for Serbia!!! So dream on!

Well, one of us will be dreamin' until he is awaken!

[Faw_Peter]

Greece, as against to other EU countries, has good relations with Russia. Also, Athens is full of Russians and Ukrainians.

[Frederic]

Dear Balkan boy and Dmitry,
Thank you very much. I really have had very good time this evening. I have never heard read such absurd and interesting things. Your fantasy has no limits. Thank you guys very much indeed. I was too naive to think that such brilliant ideas were only in heads of some orthodox, 80 years old Communists. Long live to Lenin! Long Live to Stalin! Their ideas are immortal. :-) :-) :-)

[Balkaneese]

Greece, as against to other EU countries, has good relations with Russia. Also, Athens is full of Russians and Ukrainians.

I think you forgot Cyprus.

They have good relations with Russia, too. 8-)

[SiD]

SiD, no matter how may arguments we had i MUST admit that you are the only Russian in here that is worth conversation, because you read and THINK about what other people say. At least you can see the geopolitical reasons behind the conflict. You can see Russia's EXTRA interests. And that's where we disagree. I don't think that Russia should decide on Georgia's future. This is up to them.

You just don't brag about Georgia's being fascist nor South Ossetia attack like a poem learn by heard from TV.
What most people should understand is that they should look BEYOND this media. Media is what we are supposed to see. It's made for the masses. EVERY country has Secret Intelligence Agencies that know and can predict what will happen in the next months, or even years and every political decision or action is well thought and planned in advance. There aren't many spontaneous ones.

Of course, to UNDERSTAND what is truly going on, or to be able to look BEYOND the conflict and find real interests and reasons, you need to have considerable IQ. This is something that most people seem to lack in.

Somehow Independent is right that NO mater how much we talk on this forum, we are just TOO small to change a thing, because UNFORTUNATELY Superpowers control the world.

For SiD: You agree???

Lor Russia is not superpower UNFORTUNATLY. There is only one remaining - US. We try to stop thier expansion almost at our gates, so it is like desperate measures. And you blame Russia too much.
Still US must be opposed. Do not pay attention to imotions too much. No one will win ww3 exept for rats parhaps. Serbia suffered great ijustice and western world discreditated itself in my and many of my compatriots ayes.