Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia?

[Lenus]

After 1917 Russia became much stronger then before. After 1941 Russia became world leading power. After 1991 - will be same.

WILL BE The Same is FUTURE TENSE.
after 1917 Russia never ecome as strog as it was before 1917.
after 1941, a Georgian Revived your country.
after 1991 - There will be no Georgians fighting for you, and you have no ABILITY to revive Russia, You are too corrupted for that.

By the way, I want ask you - do you really belive, that after georgians killed 54 russian peacekeepers and woonded 200 anotherone, Russia will just sit on the ass and do nothing?

No, the question is, Did you really believe, that Kokoity could kill as many Georgians as he wanted and GEorgians wouldnt do anything? KOKOITY STARTED The WAR!

Yes, and what has Russia achieved???

You entered South OSsetia, destroying Tskinvali, Georgians destroyed your main forces, wounded your General, and you had to show your real face and take off the peacemakers mask and be a real aggressor.

Our job is done. We are not in a position to Fight Russian regular army. We were only pacifying Kokoity, but you muscled in, now here is my question:

DO you REALLY Think you can invade another country and get away with this? If you are so strong, why did you allow american Ships entering the Georgian Ports?? Now you are under control. Can you fly your planes and destroy our Air Defense system? No, becuase this system is on American Ships.

8th of September you will pull out completely. Aftewards, Ukraine will join Nato, Georgia Too, you cannot hit us, because we are too smal to you.

Its over, Russia - GAME OVER. You lost it.

[russian999]

No, the question is, Did you really believe, that Kokoity could kill as many Georgians as he wanted and GEorgians wouldnt do anything? KOKOITY STARTED The WAR!

Yes, and what has Russia achieved???

You entered South OSsetia, destroying Tskinvali, Georgians destroyed your main forces, wounded your General, and you had to show your real face and take off the peacemakers mask and be a real aggressor.

Our job is done. We are not in a position to Fight Russian regular army. We were only pacifying Kokoity, but you muscled in, now here is my question:

DO you REALLY Think you can invade another country and get away with this? If you are so strong, why did you allow american Ships entering the Georgian Ports?? Now you are under control. Can you fly your planes and destroy our Air Defense system? No, becuase this system is on American Ships.

8th of September you will pull out completely. Aftewards, Ukraine will join Nato, Georgia Too, you cannot hit us, because we are too smal to you.

Its over, Russia - GAME OVER. You lost it.

All right. I see, that you believing in power of USA to help Georgia. So, I think, that you are very much romantic and not down to earth. In order to show this fact to you, I want to ask just one question.
HOW practically Georgia in the future will restore her territorial integrity? How practically, you, guys, want to make South Ossetia and Abchazia your province again? Please, answer practically, not by mottos and slogans.

[Lenus]

All right. I see, that you believing in power of USA to help Georgia. So, I think, that you are very much romantic and not down to earth. In order to show this fact to you, I want to ask just one question.
HOW practically Georgia in the future will restore her territorial integrity? How practically, you, guys, want to make South Ossetia and Abchazia your province again? Please, answer practically, not by mottos and slogans.

No Problem.

1. Russia has signed the treaty it has to withdraw troops to 6 august line.
2. EU will enforce this. We have EU Signature on our document. 8 september - 15 september: Russian will go back to 6 Aug lines.
3. International Pacekeeping (EU and UN).
4. Return of Refugees, security provided by International Peacekeepers.
5. Elections in both regions.
6. Your both puppet governments will lose by elections.
7. Georgian will Join Nato.

end of story.

[russian999]

No Problem.

1. Russia has signed the treaty it has to withdraw troops to 6 august line.
2. EU will enforce this. We have EU Signature on our document. 8 september - 15 september: Russian will go back to 6 Aug lines.
3. International Pacekeeping (EU and UN).
4. Return of Refugees, security provided by International Peacekeepers.
5. Elections in both regions.
6. Your both puppet governments will lose by elections.
7. Georgian will Join Nato.

Ha-ha-ha-ha...... Oho-ho-ho-ho..... You make me smile! Until point 5 there are no problems.And Russia will not, I think, make troubles to it. But with point 6 there are huge problem.Do you really think, that ossetians will forget "Grad"? I dont think so. And how you will bring back Refugees, if they for 15 years could not come back to there homes?

[Lenus]

Ha-ha-ha-ha...... Oho-ho-ho-ho..... You make me smile! Until point 5 there are no problems.And Russia will not, I think, make troubles to it. But with point 6 there are huge problem.Do you really think, that ossetians will forget "Grad"? I dont think so. And how you will bring back Refugees, if they for 15 years could not come back to there homes?

Just a piece of advice - more "ha-ha" you post, more stupid the posts look. Just discussions, please.

point 6 - I have confidence that Elections will be lost if Russians are not there backing those so-called governments. Georgians were majority in both regions. Georgian will be majority again. You seem to forget, there are Pro-georgian governments in those regions.

Abkhaz government is headed by Akishbaia - ethnic abkhaz;
and Ossetians are headed by Sanakoev - ethnic Ossetian.

You expelled them both from those Regions.

[russian999]

Just a piece of advice - more "ha-ha" you post, more stupid the posts look. Just discussions, please.

point 6 - I have confidence that Elections will be lost if Russians are not there backing those so-called governments. Georgians were majority in both regions. Georgian will be majority again. You seem to forget, there are Pro-georgian governments in those regions.

Abkhaz government is headed by Akishbaia - ethnic abkhaz;
and Ossetians are headed by Sanakoev - ethnic Ossetian.

You expelled them both from those Regions.

Ok, if my emotions insult you - feel free to move to another forum. We are at democratic forum, dont we?
So - we came to the main point of all discussions about georgia-south ossetia crisis. This point is - does majority of people in breakaway province support territorial integrity of georgia or not?
In order to be pragmatical in discussion I want to suggest to you make a trip to Tchinvaly right now. Not just plain trip, but with a big banner with sign "I support Saakashvily". If you will make this and survive - we can again discuss about future choise of people there. But, I think, you will be deadly unsupported by people of Tchinvaly.

[Lenus]

So - we came to the main point of all discussions about georgia-south ossetia crisis. This point is - does majority of people in breakaway province support territorial integrity of georgia or not?
In order to be pragmatical in discussion I want to suggest to you make a trip to Tchinvaly right now. Not just plain trip, but with a big banner with sign "I support Saakashvily". If you will make this and survive - we can again discuss about future choise of people there. But, I think, you will be deadly unsupported by people of Tchinvaly.

:mrgreen: Nice way to learn public opinion.

You invade the region first. You remove the majority of population, than you start talking about territorial integrity. Post the same thing in Ingushetia topic.

here is the map of Tskinvali region per population: you dont have an absolute majority... besides, not ALL ossetians support Kokoity. Remember SANAKOEV too, the legitimate leader.

[russian999]

Nice way to learn public opinion.

You invade the region first. You remove the majority of population, than you start talking about territorial integrity. Post the same thing in Ingushetia topic.

here is the map of Tskinvali region per population: you dont have an absolute majority... besides, not ALL ossetians support Kokoity. Remember SANAKOEV too, the legitimate leader.

Thanks for informative chart. But, I think few failed georgians attempt to conquer this area tell you much more about peoples will , that this chart.

[Eka]

Referendum IN Abxazeti and Sida Kartli with all IDPs from there will show what is really the will of majority. And this will happen soon or late. And now you russians can chew this piece of pie antil it will not be as a bone in throat.

And then let as see who is romatic and who is pragmatic.

Soon process in your country will show you that economical growth and totalitarizm together are impossible and that we will see who will laigh at last.

[russian999]

Referendum IN Abxazeti and Sida Kartli with all IDPs from there will show what is really the will of majority. And this will happen soon or late. And now you russians can chew this piece of pie antil it will not be as a bone in throat.

And then let as see who is romatic and who is pragmatic.

Soon process in your country will show you that economical growth and totalitarizm together are impossible and that we will see who will laigh at last.

Eka, welcome back! I noted, that georgians mostly talk about present crisis in future terms. For example -
will show,And then let as see, we will see etc... But russians talk in present terms - we doing, we fight etc...
Its clearly shows - who is dreamer and romantic, and who is pragmatic.

[russian999]

Referendum IN Abxazeti and Sida Kartli with all IDPs from there will show what is really the will of majority. And this will happen soon or late

If your Saakashvili get in last election only 50 % of voters in mostly georgians area, how many voters he will get in less georgians areas?

[SiD]

No Problem.

1. Russia has signed the treaty it has to withdraw troops to 6 august line.
2. EU will enforce this. We have EU Signature on our document. 8 september - 15 september: Russian will go back to 6 Aug lines.
3. International Pacekeeping (EU and UN).
4. Return of Refugees, security provided by International Peacekeepers.
5. Elections in both regions.
6. Your both puppet governments will lose by elections.
7. Georgian will Join Nato.

end of story.

Aint going to wooork . There is point in agreement about hightened srcurity in the region. That means that our MILITARY will go back to thier positions to 6 august, but peacekeepers will remain and with larger authority. Next, after our forces are in Russia INDEPENDENT countrys S Osetia and Abkchazia can sign some interesting treaties with Russia and tadaaaam. No international peacekeepers just watchers and no NATO for you.

[Ann from Russia]

The football match was yesterday. Russia-Georgia. We crushed Georgians: 4:0!!!!! :lol:
Georgians, you can't even play football, but you try to fight with us!! :lol: Nice trying! :lol:
By the way, I advise you to take a look at this forum: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=22347223862&ref=mf">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2 ... 862&ref=mf</a><!-- m -->
Try to explain another Europeans who is gilty at this war . Loosers!!!!! :lol:

[Steven]

Was that the Match for the preliminary World Championship 2008?

[Giovane]

Was that the Match for the preliminary World Championship 2008?

It was qualifying match for Juniour World Championship 2009 ...

[Lenus]

The football match was yesterday. Russia-Georgia. We crushed Georgians: 4:0!!!!! :lol:
Georgians, you can't even play football, but you try to fight with us!! :lol: Nice trying! :lol:
By the way, I advise you to take a look at this forum: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=22347223862&ref=mf">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2 ... 862&ref=mf</a><!-- m -->
Try to explain another Europeans who is gilty at this war . Loosers!!!!! :lol:

politicising the football match, especially such unimportant one is pathetic.

we can play rugby and kick Russians ass every time we meet, and so wVat?


----


to answer the topic question: (Who started the war in S.Ossetia: Georgia or Russia?)

[iako]

The georgian forces started to bomb Tshinval. From "the grads". The Grad is the artillery sistem that is for attac the whole aria, not particular building. the same attacs were in early 90-th. Hundreds of people were killed. The georgian commander said (live by the way) that Gerrgia started the operation ('The Clean aria') aiming to get back the territories. Georgian forces killed again and again. There are thousend of witnesses of their masacres. You dont see them on your TV. And now you say that Russia is responsible for this war? Russia shoud stay away? if Russia stay away - there won"t be any of the osetians alife today

Dear Eugene
You and also many in this forum "dont know" or dont want to know that Russia is the third part in this "conflict". OF course you shouldnot know the history of Georgia and the opinions of people living in this region, both Georgians and Osetians. They want to live in peace and this is not surprising. Can you find a persion, lets take Osetian living in this region and blaming his neighbour Georgian in this war? or can you just find Georgian not helping the Osetian neighbour during the bombing? No, you cant find. They were content with living together. The only way out of this situation is that to give Georgians (only Georgians !) and Osetians (only Osetians!) the chane to solve this conflict with there own ways without third and forth part!

[SiD]

Dear Eugene
You and also many in this forum "dont know" or dont want to know that Russia is the third part in this "conflict". OF course you shouldnot know the history of Georgia and the opinions of people living in this region, both Georgians and Osetians. They want to live in peace and this is not surprising. Can you find a persion, lets take Osetian living in this region and blaming his neighbour Georgian in this war? or can you just find Georgian not helping the Osetian neighbour during the bombing? No, you cant find. They were content with living together. The only way out of this situation is that to give Georgians (only Georgians !) and Osetians (only Osetians!) the chane to solve this conflict with there own ways without third and forth part!

Even if we put aside moral side (georgians shown how they are setling problems with thier heave weapons), there is political side too. Russia is third side USA are fourth, EU turn out to be little not very obidient but still servant of fourth side. Everyone has its own interests in the region so you can see that georgia was only cought in the middle becouse of its politics. Saakashvili is obvius a puppet. And you would intrust to find way out of situation betveen first and second party to puppet of fourth party?

[Eugene from Belarus]

Dear Eugene
You and also many in this forum "dont know" or dont want to know that Russia is the third part in this "conflict". OF course you shouldnot know the history of Georgia and the opinions of people living in this region, both Georgians and Osetians. They want to live in peace and this is not surprising. Can you find a persion, lets take Osetian living in this region and blaming his neighbour Georgian in this war? or can you just find Georgian not helping the Osetian neighbour during the bombing? No, you cant find. They were content with living together. The only way out of this situation is that to give Georgians (only Georgians !) and Osetians (only Osetians!) the chane to solve this conflict with there own ways without third and forth part!

Unfortunately, its impossible any more. Third and forth parties had alredy got involved in this conflict when pushed Saakashvily to start bombing Tshinval and gave weapon to Georgia. You on the west had never heard the words of Georgian president that he will be "very agressivewhile trying to Back Osetia" (by the way Osetia had never been the part of Georgia), or the words of georgian Ministry of Reintegration that he will "drink wine in Tshinval to the end of September". Osetia and Georgia can live peasefully, but Saakashvily wants there were not osetins on the georgian territory

[Eugene from Belarus]

Soon process in your country will show you that economical growth and totalitarizm together are impossible and that we will see who will laigh at last.

think by yourself - do not trast your newspapers and TV. Peoples are free in Russia as much as they are free in your contries. Just put the facts togather and you will understand wat have happend in Osetia

[Ann from Russia]

Dear iako, I want you to understand. I don't blame Georgians in this conflict. It's not their fault. I blame only your Goverment who dared to kill innocent people. It's a pity that our nations became like the enemies ((((

[Faw_Peter]

Dear iako, I want you to understand. I don't blame Georgians in this conflict. It's not their fault. I blame only your Goverment who dared to kill innocent people. It's a pity that our nations became like the enemies ((((

You are right Ann. Georgians are actually very friendly and hospitable people. Unfortunately it is ruled by a government that washed up some of its citizens' brains.

[Ann from Russia]

Eka wrote:
Soon process in your country will show you that economical growth and totalitarizm... Totalitarizm in Russia?! Girl are you living in the present times or stayed in 40-50-s???? Totalitarizm is in Georgia!

[iako]

Dear iako, I want you to understand. I don't blame Georgians in this conflict. It's not their fault. I blame only your Goverment who dared to kill innocent people. It's a pity that our nations became like the enemies ((((

O.K i see what you want to say, but lets just mention the fact that not only Georgian goverment is guilty. They just wanted to protect there OWN. Do you think that S.Osetia was the part of Russia? Can you tell me the historical facts? Can you show me the map of Russia where S.OSetia was the part of it in ANY CENTURY?
No, Ann, you cant. So, lets speak openly- Russia wants S.Osetia for its geopolitic purpose and is doing everything for this. So, we Georgians want peace but want it together with our osetian brothers not without them!!

[SiD]

Dear iako, I want you to understand. I don't blame Georgians in this conflict. It's not their fault. I blame only your Goverment who dared to kill innocent people. It's a pity that our nations became like the enemies ((((

It is pity. But still. Government is elected by people after all. It is easy to blame just government, very convinient to hold just few people responsible. Parhaps they or we or US chooses government with closed eyes? Realy democratic way. I dont say that we must hold entire nation responsible, but if they had democracy it is thier choice and they must feel responsability for thier action.