Georgia and South Ossetia at war

[lashachochua]

Thanks lashachochua
It has been nice to discuss with You.
Fanny how it turns out - I thought You are pro-american by heart and You thought I'm
pro-russian brained ;-)
And indeed we both don't like large countries flexing their muscles all around.

Just we were looking differently at the same things, but you see as soon as we started talking about globalization and about general topics we arrived mostly to the same conclusion. That's is why we should avoid conflicts were people are killed...It is really very heard for me when someone talks how Georgian troops run away when My firend died in this war...It is very diffuclt to read how a person who does not know history tells that Stalin brought Georgians in Abkhazia and South Ossetia....But I tried not to insult people, sometimes it was difficult and may be I unsulted some of them.........

[lashachochua]

I do agree with EU choice, I prefer collective union like EU than the single country.........In such case we will feel ourselves more safer...That is why we want to join EU....This is our only way in this historical moment to be servived from Russian aggression.....Now many thinks that Georgia started the war....But it is not reality....We all should understand that Russia had possibility to stop Ossettians not to fire on Georgian villages...Provocation was started by russia, Georgia accepted this game........and the result we see......This is why we do not want to appear in future in such games were rules are made by russia....This is why we need EU help....This is why we need EU membership.......Is it difficult to understand?....

No it is easy to agree. I have many times mentioned that Georgia should focus being member of EU
- even without NATO membership it gives You some security. The NATO membership can however
be more complicated.

Independent I think we started debating on this topic.. If Georgia were the memeber of EU and something like happend, EU countries would have been involved yes? many EU countries are members of NATO, they would have been involved also yes? Then what is difference between EU memebrship without NATO memebrship or with Nato membership....This point I really do not understand....EU means under its umbrella the sefety and even militery help to its members yes........

[independent]

Thanks lashachochua
It has been nice to discuss with You.
Fanny how it turns out - I thought You are pro-american by heart and You thought I'm
pro-russian brained ;-)
And indeed we both don't like large countries flexing their muscles all around.

Just we were looking differently at the same things, but you see as soon as we started talking about globalization and about general topics we arrived mostly to the same conclusion. That's is why we should avoid conflicts were people are killed...It is really very heard for me when someone talks how Georgian troops run away when My firend died in this war...It is very diffuclt to read how a person who does not know history tells that Stalin brought Georgians in Abkhazia and South Ossetia....But I tried not to insult people, sometimes it was difficult and may be I unsulted some of them.........

Yeah, when You look it from outside it is so easy to forget that victims are real people, not just number.
And unfortunately there was also territorial loses.

[lashachochua]

Thanks lashachochua
It has been nice to discuss with You.
Fanny how it turns out - I thought You are pro-american by heart and You thought I'm
pro-russian brained ;-)
And indeed we both don't like large countries flexing their muscles all around.

Just we were looking differently at the same things, but you see as soon as we started talking about globalization and about general topics we arrived mostly to the same conclusion. That's is why we should avoid conflicts were people are killed...It is really very heard for me when someone talks how Georgian troops run away when My firend died in this war...It is very diffuclt to read how a person who does not know history tells that Stalin brought Georgians in Abkhazia and South Ossetia....But I tried not to insult people, sometimes it was difficult and may be I unsulted some of them.........

Yeah, when You look it from outside it is so easy to forget that victims are real people, not just number.
And unfortunately there was also territorial loses.

I HAVE SENT YOU PRIVATE MESSAGE, PLZ SEE IT

[independent]

You know I really hope that georgians can soon get back to normal life - and can forget
this conflict - so that there will not remain too much hate. It's hard I know, but might
be You have now learned the same thing as we in Finland did. ( one big country never
helps You against an other one - at least for free )

[lashachochua]

You know I really hope that georgians can soon get back to normal life - and can forget
this conflict - so that there will not remain too much hate. It's hard I know, but might
be You have now learned the same thing us we in Finland did. ( one big country never
helps You against an other one - at least for free )

We can very easily forget the conflict, but we will never recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia...Georgian people will not admit this fact....Today, Tomorrow, 10 years after or 20 years after we will get back our historical Abkhazia and Samachablo......I promise ;-)

[Yalta1945]

we georgians will be always thanksfull to latvian people......

Why did then you beat Latvian national basketball team a few days ago? :haha Anyway, Latvia took the first place, France II, Georgia III, Czech Republic IV.
Tonight I got the news: Georgia's Integrity Bank fails, the 10th such collapse this year. It’s another Georgia, in the US. Bad financial news from the US is nothing new. What is comparatively new that’s bad economic news from the Eurozone, and now we should wait and see for Russia.
You seem to have certain expertise in economics. Have you ever thought of the consequences for the Russian economy in case they become engaged in a prolonged non-military conflict with the U.S? If Kremlin’s team is still calculating they must be extremely confident in their resources. Aren’t they too self-confident? Once America proved they had enough of the clout to change oil prices in the world. Is it now a rule of thumb that Iran and Russia win from the political tension? I thought so. Then I noticed strange thing: Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad makes a statement that should either push oil prices up or weaken the US dollar but nothing of that kind happens. He speaks again – again no effect. Hey, is there anybody listening? North Korea got angry, Russian tanks got rolling… Markets surprisingly were quite deaf, though. Isn’t it so that Putin’s team missed something? I just have a hypothesis that Russia is not going to win neither in a shorter nor longer term if it goes too far in its confrontation with America. Isn’t it so that they are a kind of parasites on the global financial system? I have heard enough of Europe’s energetic dependency on Russia but is not Russia itself too dependent on the stable financial system in the world? And why do they silly think that China prefers them to the rest of the world?

[Yalta1945]

You know I really hope that georgians can soon get back to normal life - and can forget
this conflict - so that there will not remain too much hate. It's hard I know, but might
be You have now learned the same thing as we in Finland did. ( one big country never
helps You against an other one - at least for free )

It is a big relief to read we are brothers in good wishes. The bitter side is that sometimes your ideas on this topic contained elements which I should call the elements of Cold War era thinking. I do not think it is enough to express one's good wishes if you can do more. A "finlandised" state is not so neutral and independent. It exists at the mercy of its bigger neigbour and if that neighbour has no bigger intrests and leverages to get more out of you. Consider Ukraine. Why should Kremlin finlandize Ukraine when it has leverages to “have it all”. Thinking is part of reality. Can you explain us the secret of Kremlin’s ambitions and the way of thinking behind them? Economic theories are helpless in doing it. But if you are not “Kremlinolog”, haw can you give us good advice?

[Yalta1945]

You know I really hope that georgians can soon get back to normal life - and can forget
this conflict - so that there will not remain too much hate. It's hard I know, but might
be You have now learned the same thing us we in Finland did. ( one big country never
helps You against an other one - at least for free )

We can very easily forget the conflict, but we will never recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia...Georgian people will not admit this fact....Today, Tomorrow, 10 years after or 20 years after we will get back our historical Abkhazia and Samachablo......I promise ;-)

Just dont get people scared - how are going to do it?..

I don’t know if you heard how the USSR blockaded Lithuania after the act of restoration of independency in March, 1990. Communists in Moscow thought if they turn off gas and oil for Lithuania, then those people would love freedom less. :lol: Very odd idea it was. Nobody starved but the air in the Lithuanian cities got cleaner. There were fewer cars on the streets and there was less of pollution. That was really good – I experienced it myself traveling around Vilnius by bicycle! Yes, they tried to make a mock of Lithuania, they were hunting the youth who refused to serve in the Soviet Army, they even shot dead several custom officers and were setting fires to their vans constantly – nothing worked. Then they butchered absolutely peaceful people in 1991 – in Vilnius and Riga, they were planning the same for Tallinn. (Under Nobel Prize winner M.Gorbachev, BTW). Our friend’s son, a young boy of 18, was killed in Vilnius… In spite, people just got more united. It was to me the most hopeful time since 1988 – even brighter than the later return to the “normal life”. The one who did not experience it can hardly understand me. I feel pity for some Westerners, though I can understand them.

[Yalta1945]

My father has been to many continents (except Antarctica, I guess), he has tasted wines of all well-known wine producing countries, and he says that the most wonderful wine he has ever had was the one he got many years ago in Georgia. Actually, he was talked into buying a certain bottle. He was skeptical but an old man insisted. Next day my father was looking for the old man to buy more. He found him, but the man said he had no more of such wine. The old man smiled happily. That’s the real treasure – talented people who understand the value of their job and are proud because of that! This is priceless.
Talent, true love, friendship, solidarity, freedom, human dignity is priceless
   

[Balkaneese]

... I just have a hypothesis that Russia is not going to win neither in a shorter nor longer term if it goes too far in its confrontation with America. ...

And the reasoning for the outcome of such a confrontation is based in...Hollywood movies?

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/HC24Dj01.html">http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 4Dj01.html</a><!-- m -->

Mar 24, 2006


SPEAKING FREELY
US living on borrowed time - and money
By Julian Delasantellis

Make a search after the articles of Julian Delisantellis, Chan Akya and William Engdahl, since you, yourself, seem to believe you are "econimic-wise".

You'll realise the US will loose its position when trading in resources (oil, gas, food) will no longer be conducted by sticking to $ peg. And that day is comming.

You may as well also notify Suck'a-a-a-AAA-sh-vilain about that.

[tamias]

REUTERS Fox News CNN are bunch of liars War in S. Ossetia

[lashachochua]

Why did then you beat Latvian national basketball team a few days ago? :haha

Sorry, I did not know it

I just have a hypothesis that Russia is not going to win neither in a shorter nor longer term if it goes too far in its confrontation with America. Isn’t it so that they are a kind of parasites on the global financial system? I have heard enough of Europe’s energetic dependency on Russia but is not Russia itself too dependent on the stable financial system in the world? And why do they silly think that China prefers them to the rest of the world?

I agree with you...But I think russia's ostentatious attempt pretending being stornger might gave small run realization....Till the west strategically will show them that it is not so....I am sure Russia will go too far, till now there is no reason for them to stop.... Even Obama told that I will strengthen American army to stop Russia...It does not matter who will be the USA President, the outcome is clear, He will do his best in order to finalize the collapse of Soviet Union....Also I do not think Europe will not contribute to this process....Or Chine will sit calm and look at Russia playing its muscles....

[lashachochua]

My father has been to many continents (except Antarctica, I guess), he has tasted wines of all well-known wine producing countries, and he says that the most wonderful wine he has ever had was the one he got many years ago in Georgia. Actually, he was talked into buying a certain bottle. He was skeptical but an old man insisted. Next day my father was looking for the old man to buy more. He found him, but the man said he had no more of such wine. The old man smiled happily. That’s the real treasure – talented people who understand the value of their job and are proud because of that! This is priceless.
Talent, true love, friendship, solidarity, freedom, human dignity is priceless
[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]

No comment....Not because that I am not pleased....Just we Georgians are also modest....

[lashachochua]

... I just have a hypothesis that Russia is not going to win neither in a shorter nor longer term if it goes too far in its confrontation with America. ...

And the reasoning for the outcome of such a confrontation is based in...Hollywood movies?

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/HC24Dj01.html">http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 4Dj01.html</a><!-- m -->

Mar 24, 2006


SPEAKING FREELY
US living on borrowed time - and money
By Julian Delasantellis

Make a search after the articles of Julian Delisantellis, Chan Akya and William Engdahl, since you, yourself, seem to believe you are "econimic-wise".

You'll realise the US will loose its position when trading in resources (oil, gas, food) will no longer be conducted by sticking to $ peg. And that day is comming.

You may as well also notify Suck'a-a-a-AAA-sh-vilain about that.

My friend...Just do not beleive to much to the articles, whose only goal is to sell product...I do really suggest to read more scientific working papers written by well-known economists...Like Robert Barro...Just copy the subject of your interests in economics in Google Scholar search and read papers which were cited many times...The higher the number of Citations the more beleivable its results are.........Professors of business are not good sources for understanding real economic issues...

[Balkaneese]

...

...
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/HC24Dj01.html">http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Eco ... 4Dj01.html</a><!-- m -->

Mar 24, 2006...

You may as well also notify Suck'a-a-a-AAA-sh-vilain about that.

My friend...Just do not beleive to much to the articles, whose only goal is to sell product...I do really suggest to read ...

Do you often offer stupid pieces of advice nobody asked you for?

Read the articles of those three listed guys dated back in 2005, 2006, 2007, and you'll find they were accurate about the housing bubble in USA, trends re CHINA and trading in commodities. Then, if you have something articulate to offer, post the link. Untl then, bye.

[lashachochua]

Do you often offer stupid pieces of advice nobody asked you for?

Did I said something like that about your link and about your comment....Nevertheless I think it is really silly....Just read carefully the article, the idea of it is as simple as the language the author is using.The author develops the idea which was many times discussed by many famous economist, espacially, current account balance, how to manage current account and when it is a problem for a country....Just I am not going to explain here the basic ideas of Economics....At least go and read principles of Macoeconomics by Mankiw...This is the best link I can offer you....I prefer to say bye....Bye....

[Faw_Peter]

hi, what's new in this topic?

[SiD]

Well i think independent was right. EU do not want to do something stupid. right now at least.

[Tamsa]

ok who gave indepedence then also give them their territories too..
and please don't forget recognising Chechnya, N ossetia(nobady remambers that there is North ossetia, all talk about south),yngushetia, Dagestan, Tatarstan, jews autonomy in Russia and so many nations and ethnic groups inrussian Federation, please give them too , that will be great only Moscow and STP will remain in Russia..don't forget thousends of ethnic groups all around the world !!

[lashachochua]

Well i think independent was right. EU do not want to do something stupid. right now at least.

What do you mean under "to do something stupid"? Have you read the principles?

It reiterated the unacceptable nature of this decision and called on other States not to recognise this proclaimed independence, emphasising once more that a peaceful and lasting solution to the conflict in Georgia must be based on full respect for the principles of independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity recognised by international law and United Nations Security Council resolutions.
The Heads of State and Government are pleased that the agreement achieved on the basis of the French Presidency’s mediation efforts on behalf of the European Union has led to a ceasefire, improved delivery of humanitarian aid to the victims, and a substantial withdrawal of Russian military forces. The 27 Member States reiterate that the implementation of that plan has to be complete and call on the parties to continue the full implementation in good faith of the agreement they have signed. They emphasised the urgency of finalising the international monitoring mechanism, in which the EU is prepared to participate, and which is provided for in point 5 of the agreement, and to begin the international talks concerning the security and stability arrangements in Abkhazia and South Ossetia provided for in point 6. The EU is ready to commit itself, including through a presence on the ground, and has decided in particular to send a fact-finding mission charged with defining the modalities for an increased commitment.

In addition to the emergency aid it is supplying, the EU is prepared to supply aid for reconstruction in Georgia, including in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and to examine the enhancement of its relations with Georgia. It is more necessary than ever to support regional cooperation and the EU’s relations with its neighbours. The European Council called for the intensification of efforts to ensure the security of energy supplies and the diversification of energy sources and supply routes.
The European Council has decided to appoint a European Union Special Representative for the crisis in Georgia. It considers that this crisis has placed the relationship between the EU and Russia at a crossroads and that it is in Russia’s own interest not to isolate itself from Europe. For its part, the EU has shown itself willing to engage in partnership and cooperation, in keeping with the values on which it is based, and expects Russia to behave in a reasonable manner, honouring all its international commitments. The EU will remain vigilant and examine the various aspects of its relations with Russia, in particular in the run-up to the next summit scheduled to take place on 14 November in Nice.The European Council has given a mandate to its President to continue discussions with a view to the full application of the six-point agreement. To that end, the President of the European Council, Nicolas Sarkozy, will go to Moscow on 8 September, accompanied by the President of the Commission and the High Representative. Until troops have withdrawn to the positions held prior to 7 August, meetings on the negotiation of the Partnership Agreement will be postponed.


Yes, in one thing you are right...EU decided to use diplomacy...But if you read the sentences in red, you have to make some conlusions...If you can not manage, I can help... I think Russia will accept this doplomacy as a fear from EU side, it will not stop its silly policy...

[Steven]

Why namely UK is the main country that wants to impose barriers to Russia? UK can cause great conflicts in Europe.

[lashachochua]

Why namely UK is the main country that wants to impose barriers to Russia? UK can cause great conflicts in Europe.

Like initiate world war III?

[matusala]

Hey,texnolyze, slow down, are you on the comunists meeting or someone steped on you?!
We know what georgians are, but what did you do to avoid this problem,instead provoce them during the period you've mentioned. Ask for help who invilved you in to this mess. :banghead

[Terry]

USA will offer a $1 billion dollar support. That will be enough for Georgia to recover.