gomboreli Wrote:The term ‘South Ossetia’, invented by Russian Bolsheviks in 1922 after their military conquest of the region a year earlier, sounds far more outrageous. Any unbiased court would prove the Russo-Ossetian territorial claims over Tskhinvali and its surrounding areas ludicrously groundless, but alas the might often outweighs the right. Such is the reality now and in general hardly the justice prevails in the world.
Do you have some evidence for your words? I think that is not truth. Name south ossetia as name of province or even as separate country was used earlier before soviet time.
What will you say?
Am I wrong?
I don’t have enough skills for translation contradictious material from Russian into English.
Can you help me???
Please, translate some expression Georgians about South Ossetia which were done before Bolshevik time
Трудно себе представить более или менее грамотного грузина, не говоря уже о научных работниках, которому не было известно имя выдающегося грузинского педагога и общественного деятеля Якова Гогебашвили. В своем знаменитом школьном учебнике «Врата природы («Бунебис кари»)», рассчитанном на детей третьего и четвертого годов обучения, который впервые вышел в 1868 г. и к моменту установления Советской власти в Грузии выдержал уже свыше двадцати изданий, Я. Гогебашвили в разделе «Соседние страны» пишет: «Осетины являются горским народом. Они занимают срединную часть Кавказского хребта, от Хевсуретии до Сванетии. Одни из них живут по ту сторону хребта, на его северных склонах, другие на этой стороне, на южных склонах. По этой причине Осетия разделяется на две части: Северную Осетию и Южную Осетию…».
Gogebashvili is indeed a famous writer and teacher and you correctly describe this translated material as contradictory. Having no desire to be accused of free interpretation of his phrase, I at the same time can’t but point out that the Ossetians have settled not only in mountainous areas but also in valleys and large cities. The writer may have referred to this term in regards with the people (not the land), because if South Ossetia as a name of province or separate country had really existed before the Bolshevik onslaught, it would have had a defined territory and some rulers as well. The question then is the time: before 1801 (Georgian kingdom), in 1801-1917 (Russian rule) or 1917-1921 (Transcaucasian Republic, Republic of Georgia)? What was the name of its administrative centre – because it couldn’t be Tskhinvali which according to the Russian 1913 survey had only 11% of Ossetian population; what was the name of the ruling feudal dynasty or who were the non-feudal governors; what are important historic dates of this territorial entity? Hardly answers on these questions can be found, because this region up to 1922 was always governed from Tiflis.
A decree on the establishment of South Ossetia was for the first time announced on 20 April 1922 by the Soviet authorities (that yeat Josef Stalin became Secretary-General of the Russian Communist Party) 14 months after the Red Army had completed the conquest of the whole region.
that is a shame how ''putanki putina'' falsificate historical facts! ! the south oseetia name issue comes after 1801 anexxation of Georgia! in 1802 26 march, Gen. Calr Knoring ( Карл Богданович Кнорринг) shamelessly named mountainous regions of central-north Georgia ''ossetia'' - Осетия, in his report to Russian emperor, while at that period there were too few ossetian families living in Liakhvi region! after this,Iranic ethnic group which was known as: Digoron, Iron, Iryston, Alan people (that's how they call themselves) was renamed as Ossetian, by the influance of Georgian etymology! th word Ossetian has a georgian base - OSETI-ოსეთი< and in every europian or noneuropian languages it sounds the same way: Осетин, Ossetian, ossetein, Osetler, there is used the a georgia base : OSETI! all this etymologic facts show up the Georgian dominancy in the Tskhinvali region, which is also affirmed by Georgian toponyms!
Ossetians came here for land renting, as north alania had too poor crops!
I also want to mention something really important, what ahppened in 20 april, 1922, when so called ''south ossetia'' got the status of autonomous region, while North Ossetia, a real Historical native place of Alans, got smae autonomous status only after 2 years, in 7 july 1924! this is obvious why ossetians were used inside georgian political arena, for the destruction of Menshevik govt and for wiping this country out from the map!
If someone still has any doubts, I can give thousends of facts, about Oseetians settlement into central Georgia.the Rusisan Tsarist, then bolshevic-communist and now putinist Russia crimes are quite visible, and if someone can't see that abnormal behavior against Georgians, then he/she has been an ugliest mistake of the nature!
gomboreli Wrote:Gogebashvili is indeed a famous writer and teacher and you correctly describe this translated material as contradictory..
I meant that Gogebashvili's citation is disproving your words that
gomboreli Wrote:The term ‘South Ossetia’, invented by Russian Bolsheviks in 1922 after their military conquest .
gomboreli Wrote:Having no desire to be accused of free interpretation of his phrase.I at the same time can’t but point out that the Ossetians have settled not only in mountainous areas but also in valleys and large cities. The writer may have referred to this term in regards with the people (not the land)
Ossetians lived in the South Ossetia mentioned by Gogebashvili as separate rural communities and that is why at that time they don’t have centralized state.
As to Gogebashvili message
He definitely told about South Ossetia which was the same part of Ossetia as North Ossetia.
Quote:Гогебашвили в разделе «Соседние страны» пишет: «Осетины являются горским народом. Они занимают срединную часть Кавказского хребта, от Хевсуретии до Сванетии. Одни из них живут по ту сторону хребта, на его северных склонах, другие на этой стороне, на южных склонах. По этой причине Осетия разделяется на две части: Северную Осетию и Южную Осетию…(That is the reason why Ossetia devided into two parts: North Ossetia and South Ossetia)».
Iordan Wrote:17 years ago Georgian militants killed 34 refugees(going to North Ossetia) from South Osetia autonomous district(now independent republic) who wanted to flee horror of a war
I don’t have right to write an address of documentary film about Zar tragedy ( Зарская трагедия) because of I don't have enough number of messages
Quote:Georgia's president says he has asked his country's parliament to announce a state of war as fierce battles with Russia military over the breakaway region of South Ossetia entered their second day.
What has happened? How did it start?
Who was the initiator? :fi
We osetians thinke that the real agressors was europeans and americans who armed and equiped georgian army durnig 10 year and spent some billion dallars on that.
U all made OSGENOCIDE
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Quote:We osetians thinke that the real agressors was europeans and americans who armed and equiped georgian army durnig 10 year and spent some billion dallars on that.
Listen boy Stop stupid provocational tone ok? you are not Ossetian ! so please stop that ape talking over here, noone's going to believe that bosh.
NOw what about the Georgia armament, we DECIDE our foreign policy and not you !
better go kill yourself, or stop silly posts in here, this forum is not for fun!
find some other websites not connected with ''RU'', don't make me think u are brainwashed!
to London_Observer
the oseetians were always connected to georgia from their first existence in north caucasus, in middle ages, long before ''XV'' century they came here as a hired warrior into Georgian army or as a temporerry land owners! after georgias dividing into lot of parts and loosing united kingdom, they began massively settlement, its highest growth was in late XIX century and beggining of XXth.
Tim Wrote:To edisan and technolyze,
I am georgian, 47 years old and live in Tbilisi, which is bombing now by russian air planes!
I know what is KGB and see what is FSB. You can change your name but never change your mind. So FSB=KGB.
I know many ossetians living in all parts of georgia, even have relatives and know their opinions. Of course I do not speak about Kokoev and his klan.
I ONLI HERE FOR ONE FICKING RESONE TO SAY THAT NOOEN OSETIAN ON THAT FICKING UNIVERSE NEWER WILL TOLK WITH GEORGIANS IS IT FICKING CLEAR TO U GEorGIgiAN)))?
Quote:the oseetians were always connected to georgia from their first existence in north caucasus, in middle ages, long before ''XV'' century they came here as a hired warrior into Georgian army or as a temporerry land owners! after georgias dividing into lot of parts and loosing united kingdom, they began massively settlement, its highest growth was in late XIX century and beggining of XXth.
FICKING LIERS
OSETIANS NEWER WAS FOLKS TO GEORGIANS STOP SAING THAT BULLSHIT! OK
AND FICKING ENGLAnd and ESSPESIIALY god damned ficking america !!!!!!!!!!!!
will pay to osetians like hitlerlovers for osgenocide!!!!!
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be damned burn in hell usa , england, and all of u
gergians is onli ur damned lackeis to kill osetians/
you seem demented and APEbrained perosn! talking about Genocide is a shame, after all we've seen already proved facts ! but if someone is blined with stupid idelolgy, deeply brainwashed by propaganda , then its useless to talk with facts or arguments, as its complitely wasting time and energy against EVIL provocator of KGB dumbed idiot!
read more and talk less, after all the last one is unknown for your low mentality and manner of speech!
free-osetia Wrote:americans FUCK U ALL OSETIANS HATE U
BURNE IN HELL!
THATS THE REAL FUCKING MAIN OSETIANS SECRET!
AMERICANS U R NOT OSETIANS ARIAN RELATIVES
STOP STEELING OSETIANS ONLI ARIAN CAUCASIAN NAME "CACASIANS"
U R NOT CAUCASIANS U R A SWINES
GEORGIAN LOVERS
Good for you. Now turn you ass to Russia ( Russia will have you :-) ) if you know what I mean?
Quote:Ossetians lived in the South Ossetia mentioned by Gogebashvili as separate rural communities and that is why at that time they don’t have centralized state.
As to Gogebashvili message
He definitely told about South Ossetia which was the same part of Ossetia as North Ossetia.
The verb 'divide' is quite confusing here, 'coz it doesn't say who were calling these areas 'North Ossetia' and 'South Ossetia'. Not Georgians for sure, and not even Russian conquerors who were in physical control of the region and could otherwise have created an administrative entity with such a name. Are you telling me that the Ossetians back in XIX century were like present-day Pushtuns of Vaziristan, living as tribes? After all, the area as a part of the Tiflis District ('Gubernya') was administratively governed from this city. Tax collected from Ossetian peasants was also relevantly going to Tiflis. Therefore, they could not exist as 'separate rural community'. In any case Tskhinvali situated near the main transport road of the whole Caucasus was until the mid-XX century dominated by Jewish community, which is proved by the official census data, so Gogebashvili instead of Tskhinvali and other territories down in the valley might mean the town of Java and surrounding mountainous areas indeed largely populated by the Ossetians.
free-osetia Wrote:americans FUCK U ALL OSETIANS HATE U
BURNE IN HELL!
THATS THE REAL FUCKING MAIN OSETIANS SECRET!
AMERICANS U R NOT OSETIANS ARIAN RELATIVES
STOP STEELING OSETIANS ONLI ARIAN CAUCASIAN NAME "CACASIANS"
U R NOT CAUCASIANS U R A SWINES
GEORGIAN LOVERS
Are you crazy?
I am sure that sonn ossetians will undestand what it is - to be russians province. And after this they will happily agree to be as it MUST be- part of Georgia . Its better to be Georgian province than Russian.
Quote:Сегодня в мире редко торжествует справедливость. Тем бо-
лее, в наше циничное и расчетливое время. Однако в случае с
Южной Осетией праведный суд состоялся. Вероломное нападе-
ние Грузии завершилось фатально для агрессора.
«Кто с мечом к нам придет, тот от меча и погибнет» – это
утверждение Александра Невского еще раз с неотвратимостью
подтвердилось и в новейшей истории. В середине XX века Рос-
сия стала освободительницей Европы, в начале XXI – освободи-
тельницей Кавказа. Грузинский фюрер разделил участь своего
германского предшественника, хотя и пытался копировать его
действия.
«Расчет Саакашвили был на блицкриг, – пишет известный
Quote:Расчет Саакашвили был на блицкриг, – пишет известный
телеведущий Максим Шевченко. – Его современная, высоко-
технологичная, мобильная, подготовленная израильскими и
американскими советниками армия должна была вытеснить из
Цхинвала жестким путем, в том числе и террором, югоосетинс-
кое население и защищавших его бойцов югоосетинской армии
и российских миротворцев, выйти на рубеж границы и туннеля,
взорвать туннель. После чего мы могли бы только клацать зуба-
ми, потому что эти места стали бы для нас неприступными.
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Десятки незаконно задержанных граждан РЮО содержится в грузинских тюрьмах
free-osetia Wrote:r u crazy about what?
we osetians ON EARTH HATE RUSSIA AND GEORGIA
WE WANNA HAVE GREAT OSETIAN COUNTRY FROM BLACK SEA TO CASPIAN SEA
ANE IN A 10 YEARS WE WILL MAKE THAT OSETIAN IMPIRE.
AND UR FUCKING GEORGIAN WILL BE DISTROED IN A FEW MONTHS)))))))))))))))
IN A AUGUST 09'
WELL BECAME NEW GREAT OSETIAN GEORGIAN WAR TO DEATH ALL GEORGIANS TO PAY FOR OSGENOPCIDE
UR GEORGIA WILL BE PARISHED AND WIPPED ON THAT PLANET I SWEAR!
By those expressions you have said that you are not ossetian person. And I could say that you are sick
Ossetians want to live peacefully.
Quote:Ossetians lived in the South Ossetia mentioned by Gogebashvili as separate rural communities and that is why at that time they don’t have centralized state.
As to Gogebashvili message
He definitely told about South Ossetia which was the same part of Ossetia as North Ossetia.
The verb 'divide' is quite confusing here, 'coz it doesn't say who were calling these areas 'North Ossetia' and 'South Ossetia'. Not Georgians for sure, and not even Russian conquerors who were in physical control of the region and could otherwise have created an administrative entity with such a name. Are you telling me that the Ossetians back in XIX century were like present-day Pushtuns of Vaziristan, living as tribes? After all, the area as a part of the Tiflis District ('Gubernya') was administratively governed from this city. Tax collected from Ossetian peasants was also relevantly going to Tiflis. Therefore, they could not exist as 'separate rural community'. In any case Tskhinvali situated near the main transport road of the whole Caucasus was until the mid-XX century dominated by Jewish community, which is proved by the official census data, so Gogebashvili instead of Tskhinvali and other territories down in the valley might mean the town of Java and surrounding mountainous areas indeed largely populated by the Ossetians.
Ok we will see who called that area like South Ossetia or simply Ossetia. )) a little bit later
And you are right not only Georgians and Russians called that region like Ossetia. Foreign travelers also noticed that.
word OSSETIA etymology comes from georgian language, so it become known from georgians, as we saved that people from starvation and death in poor North Caucasian lands! before Ossetia had been called as their major ethnonym, they were called Alans and Irons (dygorons). so as a result, Oseetia is a given name to alans by georgians. after thier living in Georgia, ''Ossetians'' were introduced as ethnic group, in the past noone ever knew about them, except other North Caucasian tribes!
what about the ''free-osetia'' dumb ,i should mention that he/she is not ossetian definitly, but I know perfectly that he/she is real MONGOLOID, living in a very cold snowy CAVE in North!!! ------------->>> that's why his/her braine is so FROZEN!! :banghead :haha
Tamara_Georgia Girl Wrote:word OSSETIA etymology comes from georgian language, so it become known from georgians, as we saved that people from starvation and death in poor North Caucasian lands! before Ossetia had been called as their major ethnonym, they were called Alans and Irons (dygorons). so as a result, Oseetia is a given name to alans by georgians. after thier living in Georgia, ''Ossetians'' were introduced as ethnic group, in the past noone ever knew about them, except other North Caucasian tribes!
what about the ''free-osetia'' dumb ,i should mention that he/she is not ossetian definitly, but I know perfectly that he/she is real MONGOLOID, living in a very cold snowy CAVE in North!!! ------------->>> that's why his/her braine is so FROZEN!! :banghead :haha
It’s wrong and you should not spread that falsehood
Ossetia is Georgians' version of native ossetian name ASS. Such a name as ASS was widespread on the East. Alanians is a name that nation but which was widespread on the West among European nations.
As known many alanians and sarmatians (or scythians) were soldiers of Rome Empire some of them become a part of native European nations.
That is why in Europe about 300 (maybe more ) settlements have in their name alan/sarmatian or different modification of those words.
free-osetia Wrote:r u crazy about what?
we osetians ON EARTH HATE RUSSIA AND GEORGIA
WE WANNA HAVE GREAT OSETIAN COUNTRY FROM BLACK SEA TO CASPIAN SEA
ANE IN A 10 YEARS WE WILL MAKE THAT OSETIAN IMPIRE.
AND UR FUCKING GEORGIAN WILL BE DISTROED IN A FEW MONTHS)))))))))))))))
IN A AUGUST 09'
WELL BECAME NEW GREAT OSETIAN GEORGIAN WAR TO DEATH ALL GEORGIANS TO PAY FOR OSGENOPCIDE
UR GEORGIA WILL BE PARISHED AND WIPPED ON THAT PLANET I SWEAR!
My diagmose is confirmed. :deg :deg
You are not only crazy but you have serios problems with mental development ." Great osetian country" . So if you dream about it we will send you thousends of osetians from Goergia to your osetia and after you can bild your great country in north part of caucasus with your brother russians. Good luck. :ange
free-osetia Wrote:r u crazy about what?
we osetians ON EARTH HATE RUSSIA AND GEORGIA
WE WANNA HAVE GREAT OSETIAN COUNTRY FROM BLACK SEA TO CASPIAN SEA
ANE IN A 10 YEARS WE WILL MAKE THAT OSETIAN IMPIRE.
AND UR FUCKING GEORGIAN WILL BE DISTROED IN A FEW MONTHS)))))))))))))))
IN A AUGUST 09'
WELL BECAME NEW GREAT OSETIAN GEORGIAN WAR TO DEATH ALL GEORGIANS TO PAY FOR OSGENOPCIDE
UR GEORGIA WILL BE PARISHED AND WIPPED ON THAT PLANET I SWEAR!
My diagmose is confirmed. :deg :deg
You are not only crazy but you have serios problems with mental development ." Great osetian country" . So if you dream about it we will send you thousends of osetians from Goergia to your osetia and after you can bild your great country in north part of caucasus with your brother russians. Good luck. :ange
First of all everybody understands that that was a provocation
Secondly if you talk about something you have to understand that Georgians have been killing and have already driven out thousands of ossetians from their homeland.
What about southern slope of Caucasus Gogebashvili have said clearly where Ossetia was in his time.
