Yaropolk Wrote:SiD,
I am really tired of this war of blames here.
After carefull study of russia's map, what is the best solution for Georgian-Russian conflict in my opinion:
1. Immediately sign of cease fire agreement (already signed an hour ago).
2. Russia withdraws its troops all over the Georgia (including so called peacekeepers).
3. Neutral forces will take place of russian troops.
4. Immediate disarmoment should be started in all conflict zones.
5. Georgian Army should return to their bases.
6. Russia should declare that all the citizens which do not like to take citizenship and live in Georgia should return to Russia.
7. Georgia should wholy support russian citizens emigration.
8. Georgia should immediately take care of those who decided to stay living in Georgia.
9. Georgia and Russia signs frame agreement of cooperation and partnership.
You can change queue as you like.
If this would happen, Georgia will be soon become the strongest neighbour, partner and friend of Russia. We would become brothers again and so on.
Though I know that this is utopia! Russia has absolutely different aims.
SiD,
I am really tired of this war of blames here.
After carefull study of russia's map, what is the best solution for Georgian-Russian conflict in my opinion:
1. Immediately sign of cease fire agreement (already signed an hour ago).
2. Russia withdraws its troops all over the Georgia (including so called peacekeepers).
3. Neutral forces will take place of russian troops.
4. Immediate disarmoment should be started in all conflict zones.
5. Georgian Army should return to their bases.
6. Russia should declare that all the citizens which do not like to take citizenship and live in Georgia should return to Russia.
7. Georgia should wholy support russian citizens emigration.
8. Georgia should immediately take care of those who decided to stay living in Georgia.
9. Georgia and Russia signs frame agreement of cooperation and partnership.
You can change queue as you like.
If this would happen, Georgia will be soon become the strongest neighbour, partner and friend of Russia. We would become brothers again and so on.
Though I know that this is utopia! Russia has absolutely different aims.
Interesting view. Utopia how you said. What if Russian government devasteted Georgia and then asked all georgians who dont like Russia to get out whanever they want or stay under Russian rule?
We know who are those neutral forces you talking about.
Doing your way will mean victory for those who started this war! At least some justice must remain in this world dont you think?
Justice? We are seeking justice last 200 years escaping from Russia, but there is no justice with Russia. How can you speak about justice? The best Georgian generations died during this 200 years. Many of them were a victims of ideology may be, but anyway. All this was coming from Russia. And still there is no responsibility and excuse, but rather agression and war.
Lor Wrote:I had the chance to live in a Russian city. It is sick how the media is filtered in here! And how ignorant Russians are towards other nations! They always criticize Americans. Tell you what!! They're the same! No difference Iraq-Georgia.What's the difference?
I dont remember any peacekeepers of U.S. in Iraq that were attaked. And i think that Americans think of themselves as a bastion of freedom and democracy. That is Ideology. Every country must have some kind of ideology if you dont know. If you dont understad us that doesnt mean we are bad! And of course you know all the thruths and we Russians are tottaly "Brainvashed". What about "brainvashing" about Iraq and Kosovo? It was made by "free" mass media. Were is Truth then? Only in your words?
Tim Wrote:Justice? We are seeking justice last 200 years escaping from Russia, but there is no justice with Russia. How can you speak about justice? The best Georgian generations died during this 200 years. Many of them were a victims of ideology may be, but anyway. All this was coming from Russia. And still there is no responsibility and excuse, but rather agression and war.
Justice? We are seeking justice last 200 years escaping from Russia, but there is no justice with Russia. How can you speak about justice? The best Georgian generations died during this 200 years. Many of them were a victims of ideology may be, but anyway. All this was coming from Russia. And still there is no responsibility and excuse, but rather agression and war.
Yeah and Stalin was Russian i suppose? He knew how to treat humans, wery same way like you treat South Osetia.
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Tim Wrote:Justice? We are seeking justice last 200 years escaping from Russia, but there is no justice with Russia. How can you speak about justice? The best Georgian generations died during this 200 years. Many of them were a victims of ideology may be, but anyway. All this was coming from Russia. And still there is no responsibility and excuse, but rather agression and war.
Dear Tim.
Check history.
Russia has saved population of your country 200 years ago when you dying in the war with Turkey.
Lor Wrote:I had the chance to live in a Russian city. It is sick how the media is filtered in here! And how ignorant Russians are towards other nations! They always criticize Americans. Tell you what!! They're the same! No difference Iraq-Georgia.What's the difference?
I dont remember any peacekeepers of U.S. in Iraq that were attaked. And i think that Americans think of themselves as a bastion of freedom and democracy. That is Ideology. Every country must have some kind of ideology if you dont know. If you dont understad us that doesnt mean we are bad! And of course you know all the thruths and we Russians are tottaly "Brainvashed". What about "brainvashing" about Iraq and Kosovo? It was made by "free" mass media. Were is Truth then? Only in your words?
Well in Iraq died thousands of Americans.The difference is that they weren't called peacekeepers.The word peace means NO war and peacekeepers shouldn't take sides. Russian peacekeepers do! They didn't support georgians that were vandalized by Osssetians They defend Ossetians and kill Georgians. Why do you call this peace?
And the difference between you and Americans is that majority of US citizens hate Bush and his stupid war. Most Americans can't wait for the elections so they can get rid of Bush. Meanwhile you, admire Putin and think that this war in Georgia is rightful. I can't see anything good about it. If this is your ideology then yes! I think is bad!
Plus i don't think that one person reflects the whole country we, Europeans think that Kosovo was horrible, Americans think that Iraq was devastating. You think Georgia war is right. I can't help comparing to Nazis that thought that invading Poland was nice and their civilians were cheering for it. That's why i call it brainwashing/propaganda.
I don't hate Russians nor i think they're bad. My husband is Russian. I blame the politics and the government that manage to affect your way of thinking.
Wake up!! War is BAD!! Innocent people DIE!! And trust me, beyond all these facts, there are different reasons for this war. I am sure it was meticulously planned beforehand with a specific purpose. There is no war in world history that happened from humanitarian reasons!Politics are DIRTY!
ok, we already thank russian a lot for halping us out, but what happened next? nothing good to remember after that from russians...
we just want russians to LEAVE US ALONE!
is that so hard to understand?
what are your plans? ok, you are ''protecting'' your citizens. got back under control south osetia.. what is next?
I and i think my government want end of hostilities, Georgia is granting South Osetia and Abchazia autonomy and signs non aggression treaties with them. Russia remeins garant of those treaties. Of course it is hard to belive Saakashvili and It is still NATO. Georgia must declare its nutrality. No one in Russia wants your soil or resources, we want peace and prosperity for both our nations.
Saakashvili forces goes out the South Osetia borders.
Saakashvili sign pact of peace with South Osetia and aggree to not attack it never in the future.
Lor how can you compare Russians with nazi !!! Dont you know what price did we paid to defeat this monster?! War is BAD that is true but shuld Soviet Union leave Hitler alone?! Was support of population for war brainwashing? Should allies remain home and talk how bad Nazi Germany is?
Spoils of war for Georgia are obvius and i pointed them in previus topics, what is there for Russia? Tell me please. All i hear is that we attacked just becouse we are agressive and cant live without war with someone!
War is bad! And war criminals should pay! Russia should stop the agression!!
I can't believe it! hock:
You guys from Russia really have no sense of responsibility???? You think that what is going on right now in Georgia is not Russia's fault at all????? That as we speak people are being killed under Russian orders. If i were Russian i would be ashamed and i would support the victims! Try to learn from your "friends" American that have demonstrations on the streets everyday AGAINST the Iraq war!I'm SHOCKED!!! Viva la propaganda!!
You completely misunderstood! I didn't say Russians are Nazis. I said that the Russian citizens reaction is AMAZING. Instead of feeling sorry for the war victims they think that this war is rightful!The same thing did the Germans when Nazis invaded Poland! NO regrets!!!! :oO
Lor Wrote:Well in Iraq died thousands of Americans.The difference is that they weren't called peacekeepers.The word peace means NO war and peacekeepers shouldn't take sides. Russian peacekeepers do! They didn't support georgians that were vandalized by Osssetians They defend Ossetians and kill Georgians. Why do you call this peace?
Peacekeepers are standing between two sides and if one side attacks other peackeepers are defending attcked side that what peacekeepers are. Interesting if Georgian villages were under attack why only Russian demanded meeting of U.N. security council? Our peacekeepers were attacked but U.N. could make no disigion thats why our army was needed. Georgia was silent, and cryed for help when our soldiers arrived. And now we hear about attacks on Georgian villages, why were you silent? Answer is simple they wanted Russia to invade!
Lor Wrote:You completely misunderstood! I didn't say Russians are Nazis. I said that the Russian citizens reaction is AMAZING. Instead of feeling sorry for the war victims they think that this war is rightful!The same thing did the Germans when Nazis invaded Poland! NO regrets!!!!
You completely misunderstood! I didn't say Russians are Nazis. I said that the Russian citizens reaction is AMAZING. Instead of feeling sorry for the war victims they think that this war is rightful!The same thing did the Germans when Nazis invaded Poland! NO regrets!!!! :oO
Why do you think so? Me personaly have no information about publick opinion in Russia. It is my position that war is just and will end soon. War is just becouse no one must think that he can buy ticket to europe and in NATO by killing civilians and peacekeepers, destroyng cities and playing victim.
nonas Wrote:ok, we already signed a cease-fire document wich now is taken by diplomats ro russia. if medvedev signs it as well, war will stop. am i right?
Right. I hope this document is fair, but i doubt Saakashvili could be trusted.
I think you are saying things that even you don't believe.
we were silent?! we are reporting that for months already.
how many times russian airplanes invaded Georgia before. even when condoleeza rice was here. nobody had a reaction. some announcements were made in the UN, but that was it.
Why do you think so? Me personaly have no information about publick opinion in Russia. It is my position that war is just and will end soon. War is just becouse no one must think that he can buy ticket to europe and in NATO by killing civilians and peacekeepers, destroyng cities and playing victim.[/quote]
Lor Wrote:You completely misunderstood! I didn't say Russians are Nazis. I said that the Russian citizens reaction is AMAZING. Instead of feeling sorry for the war victims they think that this war is rightful!The same thing did the Germans when Nazis invaded Poland! NO regrets!!!!
You completely misunderstood! I didn't say Russians are Nazis. I said that the Russian citizens reaction is AMAZING. Instead of feeling sorry for the war victims they think that this war is rightful!The same thing did the Germans when Nazis invaded Poland! NO regrets!!!! :oO
Why do you think so? Me personaly have no information about publick opinion in Russia. It is my position that war is just and will end soon. War is just becouse no one must think that he can buy ticket to europe and in NATO by killing civilians and peacekeepers, destroyng cities and playing victim.
SID where is the logic? These whole war for NATO/EU brings a NEGATIVE image over Georgia ! Not a positive one! As they it makes it look aggressive and by joining us could bring conflicts that would affect our nations. Therefore i don't see Georgia wanting NOR starting the conflict! Georgia NOT being in NATO is in Putin's interest. That's why every time he shows up on TV doesn't talk about victims, about war, guns... he talks about Georgia affecting NATO by joining it!!Therefore for some people it's obvious that the main reason of this war is Putin stopping Georgia to join NATO.... meaning stopping NATO to be right next to their border and limit Russia's influence over Caucus.
hock: