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Turkey is strong country, in NATO, but Turkey maybe never be member of EU. Why should you become member?

sly Wrote:Turkey is strong country, in NATO, but Turkey maybe never be member of EU. Why should you become member?

Well "sly" just to remind you because "KOSOVO IS EUROPE" , EU mission is already deployed in Kosovo and would help Kosovo to became a multinational and democratic country, Kosovo is homeland not only for majority (albanians) but also for minorities serbians, turks, roms, bosnians etc , Kosovars and their Government are accepting EU standards and are more pro EU oriented than serbian or rusian governement.

Give them visas and youll see their european manirs.

PETER Wrote:and not only for majority (albanians) but also for minorities serbians, turks, roms, bosnians etc , Kosovars and their Government are accepting EU standards and are more pro EU oriented than serbian or rusian governement.

We'll see about that one, the "Kosovo Albanian" majority does not appear to be more pro-Europe that Tadic and his foreign minister.
For one, some of the statements out of Pristina about the Serbian minority do not appear to indicate full acceptance of European standards by the Kosovo government.

When Serbs and non-Albanians can freely move about Kosovo without fear of violent attacks, being driven from their homes, have full cultural rights and full human rights - then we could safely say that the Kosovo Albanian majority have a European perspective. To also fit European standards, Serbs and other minorities must be regarded as FULL equals with the Albanian majority. This also means there will be NO discrimination in employment, schooling and other parts of Kosovo society. European values include human rights, human dignity and the rule of law...Without that, "Kosova" is unacceptable to the European Union!

From what I've seen the European perspective is more present in Belgrade, not Pristina.
:lol:

sly Wrote:Give them visas and youll see their european manirs.

The first order of business for the EU in Kosovo should be to open the "border" and have vise free travel between Serbia and Kosovo. This was being worked on between Brussels and Belgrade, and there should be visa free travel in and out of Serbia...

euamerican Wrote:

PETER Wrote:and not only for majority (albanians) but also for minorities serbians, turks, roms, bosnians etc , Kosovars and their Government are accepting EU standards and are more pro EU oriented than serbian or rusian governement.

We'll see about that one, the "Kosovo Albanian" majority does not appear to be more pro-Europe that Tadic and his foreign minister.
For one, some of the statements out of Pristina about the Serbian minority do not appear to indicate full acceptance of European standards by the Kosovo government.

When Serbs and non-Albanians can freely move about Kosovo without fear of violent attacks, being driven from their homes, have full cultural rights and full human rights - then we could safely say that the Kosovo Albanian majority have a European perspective. To also fit European standards, Serbs and other minorities must be regarded as FULL equals with the Albanian majority. This also means there will be NO discrimination in employment, schooling and other parts of Kosovo society. European values include human rights, human dignity and the rule of law...Without that, "Kosova" is unacceptable to the European Union!

From what I've seen the European perspective is more present in Belgrade, not Pristina.
:lol:

I think so far they have not done anything to the minorities in Kosova, they are holding jobs just like everyone else. If Serbs refuse to take orders from the former government of Kosova than that is their fault, not cause their rights are taken away. So I have no idea what you are trying to pull here with your statements. Hold done they just declared Independence too and are building a new government in such difficult circumstances. Did you hear the speech of PM Thaci, he said every minority will be equal, and whomever tries to make trouble even if it was that of the majority of the population will be dealt with. Also Belgrade refused to enter the invitation for the EU, cause they want Kosova in it. They are using the same tactics that their stupid leader Millosevic followed and led them to destruction. So if they continue like that they will end up alone or with Russia who cares olny about them selves not them. Serbs better change the politics and pretty soon or they will end up like the Nazis of Europe.

Here I will give you someone that is from a democratic point of view withing Serbia. That is what Serbia should have for a leader to see the future and see what the problems are within their own country, not what is wrong outside.

Quote:In Serbia today, 'extremism means promoting the ideals of a normal life,' says Jovanovic.

Anniversaries torment Cedomir Jovanovic. For a young man in a big hurry, there was little solace in celebrations last week marking 10 years since the Dayton peace accords ended the Bosnian war. Jovanovic was on the streets in Belgrade during the big 1996 student demonstrations and he was on the streets again in October 2000 as Serbs, angry at rigged elections, forced strongman Slobodan Milosevic from power. And when the new leaders arrested Milosevic, Jovanovic was a key aide to Serbian Prime Minister Zoran Djindjic, making sure the arrest happened despite widespread opposition in police and intelligence circles. Not surprisingly, when Djindjic was assassinated in 2003, allegedly by secret police, they had plotted to finish off Jovanovic too.
They may yet. Older politicians forced him out of Djindjic's Democratic Party, and from his job as deputy prime minister. Now he may well be the most heavily guarded private citizen in Belgrade, with two carloads of bodyguards following him at all times. A sniper opened fire on his car last March, which fortunately was armored. Even his young son Mihajlo has received death threats, beginning at the age of 6 months.
Late last month, to media acclaim, Jovanovic announced the formation of a new party, the Liberal Democrats, which immediately registered 3.4 percent in the polls--before any campaign. Popular among young people, the telegenic 34-year-old has an almost fanatically devoted band of followers. (During his student days, adoring women supporters sported buttons reading CEDO, MARRY ME.) A substantial part of that attraction is the fact that, almost alone among Serbian politicians, Jovanovic has little patience for the bloody mythologies of the country's past. Instead, he looks to the future--and speaks of unpleasant realities as he sees them.
placeAd2(commercialNode,'bigbox',false,'')

That outspoken message infuriates Serbia's powers that be. It's as simple as it is provocative: Serbs in Bosnia should stop looking to Belgrade as their capital, says Jovanovic. Kosovo is already de facto independent, and Serbs should let it go. Serbia should take responsibility for its war crimes, and he attacks the Orthodox Church as complicit in Milosevic's excesses. "It is all black and white here. There is no space for gray," he says, quaffing a Red Bull energy drink, which he describes as "my only vice." Friends sometimes tell him that he's too blunt. But as Jovanovic sees it, he has no time for sugarcoating hard truths. "What future does Serbia have, with all young people wanting to leave?" he asks. "We have lost 15 years. We are racing with time, and we have to win that race." His new party's motto? Serbia is in a hurry.
And there's the rub. Things have scarcely moved at all in the Balkans over the past decade. Serbia's economy is moribund. Joblessness, already epidemic, is rising. Foreign investment is negligible, and both Bosnia and Serbia lag far behind the rest of the Balkan pack in the drive to join the European Union. Meanwhile, politics seems frozen in place. Nationalists hold sway in Belgrade. Ethnic tensions in Bosnia are, if anything, worse than before the war. Last week in Washington, U.S. officials persuaded Bosnia's Serb, Croat and Muslim leaders to begin renegotiating Dayton. The accords brought peace but left Serbs in Bosnia as a state within a state, institutionalizing ethnic divisions and paralyzing government. U.S. Under Secretary of State Nicholas Burns calls Bosnia a place of "internal Berlin walls." Talks are also just getting underway on the future status of Kosovo, wrested from Serb control by NATO in 1999 and still under U.N. administration. And as Milosevic's trial at The Hague enters its fourth year, with no end in sight, other accused war criminals remain at large, allegedly sheltered by Serb officials in Bosnia and Serbia. Chief among them: Gen. Ratko Mladic, the wartime Bosnian Serb commander, and Radovan Karadzic, who just last month published a new volume of poetry in Serbia.
Critics dismiss Jovanovic as an extremist, merely for voicing facts that to foreigners are obvious. But in Serbia today, he says, "extremism means promoting the ideals of normal life." No Serbian officials, for example, label the 1995 massacre of 8,000 Muslim men in Srebrenica a genocide, except Jovanovic. "I don't want my children, my friends, my town to become the paradigm of Nazism in the 21st century," he says.
That's a hard message to sell in a country where the most popular party, the Radicals, is led by an accused war criminal, Vojislav Seselj, awaiting trial at The Hague. Jovanovic hopes his personal popularity will help change all that. The next elections aren't scheduled until late 2007, though it's likely they could come sooner. Until then, his main challenge will be to continue speaking out--and trying to stay alive.

Cedo on Milosevic:
"No one imagined things would end this way. Instead of crowing in triumph, the strongman's old opponents are filled with a strange sense of disappointment and embarrassment. When police arrived at his villa with a warrant for his arrest, he threatened. He blustered. He brandished a pistol and swore he would kill his wife, his daughter and himself rather than submit. Then he just gave up. "This is so banal," says Biljana Srbljanovic, a prominent playwright and critic of the regime. "Seeing Slobo now, I am ashamed. It turns out we were afraid of a man who was just a fool."

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx...omir+Jovanovic">http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx...omir+Jovanovic</a><!-- m -->

this "state" is against the international law...kosovo is a part of serbia...i hope greece won´t recognize this fake thing...
greating to all friends in serbia from your brothers...

ps.:and the 12 points from kosovo go to the usa! lol

Guest Wrote:this "state" is against the international law...kosovo is a part of serbia...i hope greece won´t recognize this fake thing...
greating to all friends in serbia from your brothers...

ps.:and the 12 points from kosovo go to the usa! lol

Oh well no big deal if some states are not going to recognize Kosova, so far is doing very well. There is nothing wrong that Kosova got help from bigger states, you should read your own history to see how Russia has helped you to keep what you have taken so far.

Here is some more atrocities from serbs recorded from outside sources from 1912-1913 upon the Albanian population in their own land.

Quote:Vienna, Easter Sunday, 1913

Leo Freundlich

The Albanians Must Be Exterminated

In regard to the news report that 300 Albanians from Ljuma, who carried no arms, were shot in Prizrend without legal proceedings, the Frankfurter Zeitung wrote this: "It seems that in this particular case, the Serbian troops are to be blamed for the carnage. However, there is not the slightest doubt that on other occasions, when very bloody massacres were committed by irregular, auxiliary troops, these acted under the orders of Serbian authorities who fully approved them.


At the beginning of the war, we ourselves were often openly told by Serbian officials: "We shall exterminate the Albanians." Since this policy of genocide has been continuing unabated despite European protests, we consider it as our duty to expose bluntly the intentions of the authorities in Belgrade. These will angrily deny their declarations, aware as they are that journalistic ethics, do not allow us to mention names. However, it is not difficult to understand that we would not release such information if we were not absolutely sure about it. After all, the facts exposed here are much more eloquent than the most sincere confessions. Since last fall when Serbian troops crossed the border and occupied land inhabited by Albanians, one bloodbath after another has been committed.

A Genocide War

In an article published in the Kreuzzeitung, Professor Schiemann wrote this: Personal letters have been coming here from war headquarters, despite the tough censorship in the allied Balkan states as well as the pressure put on war correspondents. They describe the deportment of the Serbs and Greeks in the war. The picture that gradually emerges from these letters is unusually afflicting. The Serbs, Professor Schiemann declares in his article, are waging a war of genocide against the Albanians. They would like to exterminate this nation root and branch.

The Daily Chronicle reported on November 12, 1912, that the slaughter by the Serbs of thousands of Albanians was an undeniable fact. Near Üsküb, 2 000 Moslem Albanians and, not far from Prizren, 5 000 of them were butchered. Many villages have been set on fire and their inhabitants massacred. When homes were searched for weapons, the Albanians were simply killed even when no weapons were found. The Serbs made it clear that Moslem Albanians had to be eradicated. They contended that this would be the most effective way of appeasing the country.

*****

The war correspondent of Pome's Messaggero gives an account of the frightful massacres perpetrated by the Serbs against the Albanians in the vilayet of Kosovo. As a result of the resistance opposed by the Albanians, such towns as Ferisovic, Lipian, Babus and others were completely destroyed and most of their inhabitants killed. A high ranking Catholic priest made it known that fighting in the surroundings of Ferizovic raged for three days. After the conquest of the town, the Serbian commander is said to have summoned the fugitives to return quietly and to hand in the weapons.

When this was done, three or four hundred people were slain. In all of Ferizovic, only half a dozen Moslem families remained alive. Poor Serbian families quickly settled in the homes of the well-to-do fugitives.

*****

The Paris newspaper Humanité published an official account which had been communicated to a consulate in Salonica. This communication tells about the way the Serbs acted in Albania; about their lootings, destructions and massacres. The number of Albanian villages completely or partially destroyed by the Serbs in a systematic way, amounts to thirty-one. The gangs, led by Kristo from Kumanovo, Ssiro Dilow from Üsküb, Alexandrowos from Ishtip and others, plundered all of the villages in the districts of Kratovo and Kotchana, set them on fire and slaughtered the entire Moslem population. In Shuyovo and Mesheli, all of the Moslems were slain; two hundred others were killed in Vetreni.

Living in the past :roll: - the past, the past and the past! Europe is not about living in the past. Don't talk about the past. Milosevic is dead and there is a democratic government in Belgrade. The European project is about a European future for all Balkans' nations - including Albanina, Kosovo, Serbia and the Kosovo Serbs!

We shall see in the coming year and years if the Kosovo Albanians that rule in Kosovo are really Europeans and have the European perspective. Again - when the non-Albanian minority has full rights to European standards, which means, among other things, that the minority can travel freely and not be under threat of murder - then we can say the Kosovars have a European perspective. Fine, that Thaci made these statements, but making statements is one thing. Action is quite another. It was also very irresponsible to treat the riots in Belgrade as if Milosevic is still in power. You post some kind of article that hearkens from Serbia's dark past that has no relevance here. It is not very European to make such irresponsible statements about Serbs, who are also Europeans. It is un-European to hold on to past conflicts and the reason for the creation of the European project is to let go of the past...In making statement about Serbs, Thaci fails to demonstrate he has a European prospective. Your post hearkens to the past and ignore the fact that Serbia is a European country...Europe is not about the past - but the future - and that includes equality for Kosovo's minority. :lol:

The European Union can and will work to bring the Serbs on board in the European project. The European Union will most likely make the Serb minority in Kosovo a priority. Pitty any Albanian that wants to attack Serbs, Serb churches and Serbian cultural objects in Kosovo. Not only will the European Union respond strongly, and this would be responded to by KFOR as well. With the European Union you simply will not be allowed free attack on Serbs - and the situation for all minorities had better improve or the "republic of Kosova" will be an international protectorate for a very long time to come. :!:

The test and measure is whether Serbs and other non-Albanians can walk the streets without fear, be able to have the same rights and free movement, cultural rights EQUAL to the Albanian majority. I like the Ahtisaari Plan. Under it the Kosovo Serbs and their churches will receive special protection. There is no other standard for "Kosova" than the FULL rights for minorities. concern about the minority rights of the Serbs is expressed in EU documents:

Quote:1.26.4. Council conclusions on the western Balkans. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://europa.eu/bulletin/en/200701/p126004.htm">http://europa.eu/bulletin/en/200701/p126004.htm</a><!-- m -->
Adopted on 12 February. The Council welcomed the visit of the EU Troika to Belgrade on 7 February. It called upon the political leaders in Serbia quickly to form a government committed to reform and a European future. The Council remains fully committed to Serbia's EU perspective and is ready to work with such a new government towards this goal. Serbia remains welcome to join the EU. The Council welcomed the Commission's readiness to resume negotiations on a stabilisation and association agreement with a new government in Belgrade provided it shows clear commitment and takes concrete and effective action for full cooperation with the ICTY. In addition, the EU welcomes the significant progress achieved in the negotiations on visa facilitation and readmission and looks forward to concluding them soon. The Council expressed its full support for the UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari and his efforts in conducting the political process to determine Kosovo's future status. His proposals presented to both parties on 2 February provide comprehensive arrangements designed to promote in Kosovo a multi-ethnic and democratic society based on the rule of law. They include extensive measures to safeguard the future of all communities living in Kosovo, especially the Kosovo Serbs. The Council believes that the proposals create the basis for Kosovo's sustainable economic and political development and for strengthening the stability of the entire region. The proposals represent the result of one year of intensive negotiations including direct talks between the two sides. The status process has now entered its decisive stage. The EU stands ready to play a significant role in the implementation of the status settlement. The final decision on the status of Kosovo should be endorsed by the UN Security Council. The Council decided to intensify the preparation for a future EU and international presence in Kosovo in coordination with other international actors

.

Open up the borders and the European Union should have extensive contacts and exchanges with Serbia and Serbs. The first order of business should be to open the border and allow the Serbian people access to their cultural heritage. The second order of business is to send a strong message to anyone thinking about attacking Kosovo minorities will be sent to prison for a long time to come. The European Union owes it to Serbia and has a lot invested in Serbia to date. The European Union helped the Serbian the opposition to Milosevic and brave Serbian patriots like Zoran Djinjic paid for it with their lives...What is needed - and will eventually happen, is that there be no border between Kosovo and Serbia.

You also fail to realize that the majority of Serbs want EU membership and you also fail to understand the ruling coalition in Serbia is pro-EU. While it is true that Serbia struggles with violent nationalists (which makes the timing of "Kosovo independence" all the more bad) bringing Serbia into the European family should be a special project for the European Union. the European Union is not about leaving European nations outside. You fail to understand that the Serbs and Serbia are not enemies of the European Union. There is no basis to the argument that Serbia is "anti-EU" - this is absolutely not true!

EU foreign ministers seek to boost Serbia's pro-Europe president - http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1201402921.65

Serbia's Tadic ekes out narrow, pro-Europe mandate -http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0205/p07s02-woeu.html

"Kosovo, EU integration separate processes" -http://www.b92.net/eng/insight/tvshows.php?nav_id=46691

What is needed now is to drop the demand to produce war criminals (and do so for other Balkans' nations) and enter into the SAA. After WWII (West) Germany was not denied rehabilitation and a place in NATO because war criminals were not located. The standard should be good faith cooperation for all Balkans countries - not producing war criminals. And that is the heart of the problem here...I have written both the Belgian and Dutch governments and pointed out that their positions on this issue are very counterproductive.

My own research paper from July 2006 "The building of European Serbia: How the European Union is winning in the Balkans"-http://yellow-stars.com/Europe/papers/Eu...erbia1.pdf

Now - let's talk about the future, a European future, for both Kosovo and Serbia!!!

Quote:I think so far they have not done anything to the minorities in Kosova, they are holding jobs just like everyone else. If Serbs refuse to take orders from the former government of Kosova than that is their fault, not cause their rights are taken away. So I have no idea what you are trying to pull here with your statements. Hold done they just declared Independence too and are building a new government in such difficult circumstances. Did you hear the speech of PM Thaci, he said every minority will be equal, and whomever tries to make trouble even if it was that of the majority of the population will be dealt with. Also Belgrade refused to enter the invitation for the EU, cause they want Kosova in it. They are using the same tactics that their stupid leader Millosevic followed and led them to destruction. So if they continue like that they will end up alone or with Russia who cares olny about them selves not them. Serbs better change the politics and pretty soon or they will end up like the Nazis of Europe.

End up like the Nazis? What? Germany today is, like Serbia is becoming, a responsible, democratic and European nation.

This is utter nonsense for the reasons outlined above. Again- MILOSEVIC IS DEAD! You cannot claim to have a European perspective and resurrect the ghost of Milosevic. The European perspective is about putting the past conflicts in the past and living in peace with former enemies. This is what both France and Germany do today. What is the European Union today came out of the coal and steel community, which was about putting past conflicts, especially France and Germany behind...Go and read the Schuman Declaration!

As stated above - the next year and time will tell. Again- the standards are full human rights in Kosovo society, freedom of movement without fear of murder, cultural rights, equal rights to jobs and school, which are European standards.

Also - Serbia's integration into Europe has nothing to do with Kosovo. There are some in Belgrade that say these things, but they are the minority (thank God) in the coalition government. It is unknown where the attachment to Kosovo and Serbia's entrance into Europe came from, but its not true. To take the statements of out-of-power figures in Belgrade is one sided. The responsible (and European) thing for the government in Pristina would be to encourage Serbia to take the agreement.

There is still the notion here that the Serbs and Serbia are "enemies of the European Union." This is utter rubbish from beginning to end- and the European Union does not view Serbs and Serbia as "enemies." This notion is counter to the European perspective and such a notion will never be a part of European Union foreign policy. :ugeek:

Serbs should STOP Lying once and forever:

The reason of relations with Russia are their routs and origine. They are strangers to the Western Balkans and known as BARBAR people, Invadors, Ocuppiers ... etc similar

Historian Noel Malcolm says it all:



Is Kosovo Serbia? We ask a historian

By Noel Malcolm (published by The Guardian)

"Kosovo is Serbia", "Ask any historian" read the unlikely placards, waved by angry Serb demonstrators in Brussels on Sunday. This is rather flattering for historians: we don't often get asked to adjudicate. It does not, however, follow that any historian would agree, not least because historians do not use this sort of eternal present tense.

History, for the Serbs, started in the early 7th century, when they settled in the Balkans. Their power base was outside Kosovo, which they fully conquered in the early 13th, so the claim that Kosovo was the "cradle" of the Serbs is untrue.

What is true is that they ruled Kosovo for about 250 years, until the final Ottoman takeover in the mid-15th century. Churches and monasteries remain from that period, but there is no more continuity between the medieval Serbian state and today's Serbia than there is between the Byzantine Empire and Greece.

Kosovo remained Ottoman territory until it was conquered by Serbian forces in 1912. Serbs would say "liberated"; but even their own estimates put the Orthodox Serb population at less than 25%. The majority population was Albanian, and did not welcome Serb rule, so "conquered" seems the right word.

But legally, Kosovo was not incorporated into the Serbian kingdom in 1912; it remained occupied territory until some time after 1918. Then, finally, it was incorporated, not into a Serbian state, but into a Yugoslav one. And with one big interruption (the second world war) it remained part of some sort of Yugoslav state until June 2006.

Until the destruction of the old federal Yugoslavia by Milosevic, Kosovo had a dual status. It was called a part of Serbia; but it was also called a unit of the federation. In all practical ways, the latter sense prevailed: Kosovo had its own parliament and government, and was directly represented at the federal level, alongside Serbia. It was, in fact, one of the eight units of the federal system.

Almost all the other units have now become independent states. Historically, the independence of Kosovo just completes that process. Therefore, Kosovo has become an ex-Yugoslav state, as any historian could tell you.

· Noel Malcolm is a senior research fellow at All Souls College, Oxford. He is the author of Kosovo: A Short History

euamerican Wrote:Living in the past :roll: - the past, the past and the past! Europe is not about living in the past. Don't talk about the past. Milosevic is dead and there is a democratic government in Belgrade. The European project is about a European future for all Balkans' nations - including Albanina, Kosovo, Serbia and the Kosovo Serbs!

You are wrong we are trying to brake ties with that past, even though it wasn't that while back the atrocities made upon innocent people. But when you are accused of that past then the right thing to do is bring good proof, so people read it and have a better understanding of what was going on.

Quote:We shall see in the coming year and years if the Kosovo Albanians that rule in Kosovo are really Europeans and have the European perspective. Again - when the non-Albanian minority has full rights to European standards, which means, among other things, that the minority can travel freely and not be under threat of murder - then we can say the Kosovars have a European perspective. Fine, that Thaci made these statements, but making statements is one thing. Action is quite another. It was also very irresponsible to treat the riots in Belgrade as if Milosevic is still in power. You post some kind of article that hearkens from Serbia's dark past that has no relevance here. It is not very European to make such irresponsible statements about Serbs, who are also Europeans. It is un-European to hold on to past conflicts and the reason for the creation of the European project is to let go of the past...In making statement about Serbs, Thaci fails to demonstrate he has a European prospective. Your post hearkens to the past and ignore the fact that Serbia is a European country...Europe is not about the past - but the future - and that includes equality for Kosovo's minority. :lol:

Well so far they have been given the rights and the serbs refuse to work, or obey the new state, as they think it is illegal, so who is still living in the past now, and not trying t go toward the future? :lol: I think I even brought an article written by one of their democratic leader, I hope you read that. I think you fail to see how Serbia is treating this situation, not Thaci and albanians. What more prospective do you want, he already made the statement, he even before declaring the independence went to some of the villages that have serb minority and gave the farmer a tractor, and again stressed out that the rights of everyone would be the same. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote:The European Union can and will work to bring the Serbs on board in the European project. The European Union will most likely make the Serb minority in Kosovo a priority. Pitty any Albanian that wants to attack Serbs, Serb churches and Serbian cultural objects in Kosovo. Not only will the European Union respond strongly, and this would be responded to by KFOR as well. With the European Union you simply will not be allowed free attack on Serbs - and the situation for all minorities had better improve or the "republic of Kosova" will be an international protectorate for a very long time to come. :!: The test and measure is whether Serbs and other non-Albanians can walk the streets without fear, be able to have the same rights and free movement, cultural rights EQUAL to the Albanian majority. I like the Ahtisaari Plan. Under it the Kosovo Serbs and their churches will receive special protection. There is no other standard for "Kosova" than the FULL rights for minorities. concern about the minority rights of the Serbs is expressed in EU documents:

You just talk non-sense here whatsoever, you still talk as the Kosova government is doing some kind of conspiracy against the minorities which is far from the truth, since the new government is still monitored by EU.

Quote:1.26.4. Council conclusions on the western Balkans. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://europa.eu/bulletin/en/200701/p126004.htm">http://europa.eu/bulletin/en/200701/p126004.htm</a><!-- m -->
Adopted on 12 February. The Council welcomed the visit of the EU Troika to Belgrade on 7 February. It called upon the political leaders in Serbia quickly to form a government committed to reform and a European future. The Council remains fully committed to Serbia's EU perspective and is ready to work with such a new government towards this goal. Serbia remains welcome to join the EU. The Council welcomed the Commission's readiness to resume negotiations on a stabilisation and association agreement with a new government in Belgrade provided it shows clear commitment and takes concrete and effective action for full cooperation with the ICTY. In addition, the EU welcomes the significant progress achieved in the negotiations on visa facilitation and readmission and looks forward to concluding them soon. The Council expressed its full support for the UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari and his efforts in conducting the political process to determine Kosovo's future status. His proposals presented to both parties on 2 February provide comprehensive arrangements designed to promote in Kosovo a multi-ethnic and democratic society based on the rule of law. They include extensive measures to safeguard the future of all communities living in Kosovo, especially the Kosovo Serbs. The Council believes that the proposals create the basis for Kosovo's sustainable economic and political development and for strengthening the stability of the entire region. The proposals represent the result of one year of intensive negotiations including direct talks between the two sides. The status process has now entered its decisive stage. The EU stands ready to play a significant role in the implementation of the status settlement. The final decision on the status of Kosovo should be endorsed by the UN Security Council. The Council decided to intensify the preparation for a future EU and international presence in Kosovo in coordination with other international actors

.

Open up the borders and the European Union should have extensive contacts and exchanges with Serbia and Serbs. The first order of business should be to open the border and allow the Serbian people access to their cultural heritage. The second order of business is to send a strong message to anyone thinking about attacking Kosovo minorities will be sent to prison for a long time to come. The European Union owes it to Serbia and has a lot invested in Serbia to date. The European Union helped the Serbian the opposition to Milosevic and brave Serbian patriots like Zoran Djinjic paid for it with their lives...What is needed - and will eventually happen, is that there be no border between Kosovo and Serbia.

You also fail to realize that the majority of Serbs want EU membership and you also fail to understand the ruling coalition in Serbia is pro-EU. While it is true that Serbia struggles with violent nationalists (which makes the timing of "Kosovo independence" all the more bad) bringing Serbia into the European family should be a special project for the European Union. the European Union is not about leaving European nations outside. You fail to understand that the Serbs and Serbia are not enemies of the European Union. There is no basis to the argument that Serbia is "anti-EU" - this is absolutely not true!

EU foreign ministers seek to boost Serbia's pro-Europe president - http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1201402921.65

Serbia's Tadic ekes out narrow, pro-Europe mandate -http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0205/p07s02-woeu.html

"Kosovo, EU integration separate processes" -http://www.b92.net/eng/insight/tvshows.php?nav_id=46691

What is needed now is to drop the demand to produce war criminals (and do so for other Balkans' nations) and enter into the SAA. After WWII (West) Germany was not denied rehabilitation and a place in NATO because war criminals were not located. The standard should be good faith cooperation for all Balkans countries - not producing war criminals. And that is the heart of the problem here...I have written both the Belgian and Dutch governments and pointed out that their positions on this issue are very counterproductive.

My own research paper from July 2006 "The building of European Serbia: How the European Union is winning in the Balkans"-http://yellow-stars.com/Europe/papers/Eu...erbia1.pdf

Now - let's talk about the future, a European future, for both Kosovo and Serbia!!! [/quote]

That is what we are trying to talk, but still the serb minorities backed up by the Belgrade government refuse such a thing, so they are making this look bad on their part, while albanians are trying to go back to their everyday life routine, and try to work toward the goal of being accepted as a country that wants peace and prosperity. They still are trying to make trouble in Northern part of Kosova, thinking there will be a partition. Such a thing was done and said will never happen. So that is what I said the sooner everyone accepts, the better will be for both sides, and they both may enjoy both the cultural roots that both cultures build upon that land, no matter who was there first..

Anyway guys for all us that luver each other very much here is some jokes too, cause we can't make debating boring all the time...

Quote:@the Blegrade zoo!

A tiger escaped from Belgrade Zoo and attacked a little girl. Then an Albanian jumped in and killed the tiger and rescued the girl.

Next day the newspaper "Politika" wrote:
"Brave Serbian rescued a small girl from a crazy tiger"

The Albanian got pissed off and called the newspaper to tell them he is not Serbian but Albanian.

Next day the newspaper "Politika" wrote:
"Brave Yugoslav rescued a small girl from a crazy tiger"

The Albanian got pissed off and called the newspaper to tell them he is not Serbian or Yugoslav but Albanian and ONLY Albanian.


Next day the newspaper "Politika" wrote:
"Crazy Albanian killed a sweet animal loved by little kids"

........... :lol:

Damn.......You people are stupid:
The European Union Supports Kosovo's Independance because the don't want any musilms in the EU.
They know if they let them come in the EU, they will never go out.
That's why they took only the Greek Cyprus in the EU, so the united Cyprus can't join and if the United Cyprus joined, it would be half Turkey, that's why Kosovo will never go to the EU, neither will Albania or Turkey. Europe is a Christian Continent, so let's keep it that way.

If Kosovo wants to sign some joining documents, the EU will say:
Look At the economy of your country, if we can name it that :lol:
Look At the criminal of your country,
Look At the undeployment of your people,

And even the do make all this things better, someone in the EU will surely say:
NO!!!
and post a veto on it, Kosovo will never get to the EU, and we will see who will laugh last.

LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN EU!!!

Car Dušan Wrote:Damn.......You people are stupid:
The European Union Supports Kosovo's Independance because the don't want any musilms in the EU.
They know if they let them come in the EU, they will never go out.
That's why they took only the Greek Cyprus in the EU, so the united Cyprus can't join and if the United Cyprus joined, it would be half Turkey, that's why Kosovo will never go to the EU, neither will Albania or Turkey. Europe is a Christian Continent, so let's keep it that way.

If Kosovo wants to sign some joining documents, the EU will say:
Look At the economy of your country, if we can name it that :lol:
Look At the criminal of your country,
Look At the undeployment of your people,

And even the do make all this things better, someone in the EU will surely say:
NO!!!
and post a veto on it, Kosovo will never get to the EU, and we will see who will laugh last.

LONG LIVE CHRISTIAN EU!!!

heheheh you should talk about crimes. You are so funny... :lol: Keep it up, we want to laugh too afterall..

we'll se but you have to answer everything on this forum?

Mora da bude svakom loncu poklopac

Car Dušan Wrote:we'll se but you have to answer everything on this forum?

Mora da bude svakom loncu poklopac

I just love the challenge, what's your problem. I have my space you have yours, and one more thing I got more knowledge... :lol:

Well I guess I'm my own boss so I have time to answer you while I make money...

euamerican Wrote:

Quote:I think so far they have not done anything to the minorities in Kosova, they are holding jobs just like everyone else. If Serbs refuse to take orders from the former government of Kosova than that is their fault, not cause their rights are taken away. So I have no idea what you are trying to pull here with your statements. Hold done they just declared Independence too and are building a new government in such difficult circumstances. Did you hear the speech of PM Thaci, he said every minority will be equal, and whomever tries to make trouble even if it was that of the majority of the population will be dealt with. Also Belgrade refused to enter the invitation for the EU, cause they want Kosova in it. They are using the same tactics that their stupid leader Millosevic followed and led them to destruction. So if they continue like that they will end up alone or with Russia who cares olny about them selves not them. Serbs better change the politics and pretty soon or they will end up like the Nazis of Europe.

End up like the Nazis? What? Germany today is, like Serbia is becoming, a responsible, democratic and European nation.

This is utter nonsense for the reasons outlined above. Again- MILOSEVIC IS DEAD! You cannot claim to have a European perspective and resurrect the ghost of Milosevic. The European perspective is about putting the past conflicts in the past and living in peace with former enemies. This is what both France and Germany do today. What is the European Union today came out of the coal and steel community, which was about putting past conflicts, especially France and Germany behind...Go and read the Schuman Declaration!

As stated above - the next year and time will tell. Again- the standards are full human rights in Kosovo society, freedom of movement without fear of murder, cultural rights, equal rights to jobs and school, which are European standards.

Also - Serbia's integration into Europe has nothing to do with Kosovo. There are some in Belgrade that say these things, but they are the minority (thank God) in the coalition government. It is unknown where the attachment to Kosovo and Serbia's entrance into Europe came from, but its not true. To take the statements of out-of-power figures in Belgrade is one sided. The responsible (and European) thing for the government in Pristina would be to encourage Serbia to take the agreement.

There is still the notion here that the Serbs and Serbia are "enemies of the European Union." This is utter rubbish from beginning to end- and the European Union does not view Serbs and Serbia as "enemies." This notion is counter to the European perspective and such a notion will never be a part of European Union foreign policy. :ugeek:

You europeans need to know that under Milosevic propaganda nobody could think normaly so any criminal action provided in that time by simple people is something that you could expect. In that conditions, everytime when komunist regime was nearly too fall, you support some oposition party, and produce contraefect and help regime to live. After peaceful fall of Milosevic, after unseen demonstrations and Serbs bravery, instead to give a hand to destroyed Serb nation and help to establish real democracy and law, you continued with all sorts of dangerous requests, knewing that it will make old Serb fears to live again. That policy produced killing of Djindjic and today dangerous condition in Serbia. Taking of Kosovo is for 95% of Serbs worst thing ever.We need help.
Peaceful solution is: great autonomy for Kosovo in Serbia for now, to stop tensions in region, and together to try to become EU. Then EU low will be legal and primary for us.

sly Wrote:

euamerican Wrote:

Quote:I think so far they have not done anything to the minorities in Kosova, they are holding jobs just like everyone else. If Serbs refuse to take orders from the former government of Kosova than that is their fault, not cause their rights are taken away. So I have no idea what you are trying to pull here with your statements. Hold done they just declared Independence too and are building a new government in such difficult circumstances. Did you hear the speech of PM Thaci, he said every minority will be equal, and whomever tries to make trouble even if it was that of the majority of the population will be dealt with. Also Belgrade refused to enter the invitation for the EU, cause they want Kosova in it. They are using the same tactics that their stupid leader Millosevic followed and led them to destruction. So if they continue like that they will end up alone or with Russia who cares olny about them selves not them. Serbs better change the politics and pretty soon or they will end up like the Nazis of Europe.

End up like the Nazis? What? Germany today is, like Serbia is becoming, a responsible, democratic and European nation.

This is utter nonsense for the reasons outlined above. Again- MILOSEVIC IS DEAD! You cannot claim to have a European perspective and resurrect the ghost of Milosevic. The European perspective is about putting the past conflicts in the past and living in peace with former enemies. This is what both France and Germany do today. What is the European Union today came out of the coal and steel community, which was about putting past conflicts, especially France and Germany behind...Go and read the Schuman Declaration!

As stated above - the next year and time will tell. Again- the standards are full human rights in Kosovo society, freedom of movement without fear of murder, cultural rights, equal rights to jobs and school, which are European standards.

Also - Serbia's integration into Europe has nothing to do with Kosovo. There are some in Belgrade that say these things, but they are the minority (thank God) in the coalition government. It is unknown where the attachment to Kosovo and Serbia's entrance into Europe came from, but its not true. To take the statements of out-of-power figures in Belgrade is one sided. The responsible (and European) thing for the government in Pristina would be to encourage Serbia to take the agreement.

There is still the notion here that the Serbs and Serbia are "enemies of the European Union." This is utter rubbish from beginning to end- and the European Union does not view Serbs and Serbia as "enemies." This notion is counter to the European perspective and such a notion will never be a part of European Union foreign policy. :ugeek:

You europeans need to know that under Milosevic propaganda nobody could think normaly so any criminal action provided in that time by simple people is something that you could expect. In that conditions, everytime when komunist regime was nearly too fall, you support some oposition party, and produce contraefect and help regime to live. After peaceful fall of Milosevic, after unseen demonstrations and Serbs bravery, instead to give a hand to destroyed Serb nation and help to establish real democracy and law, you continued with all sorts of dangerous requests, knewing that it will make old Serb fears to live again. That policy produced killing of Djindjic and today dangerous condition in Serbia. Taking of Kosovo is for 95% of Serbs worst thing ever.We need help.
Peaceful solution is: great autonomy for Kosovo in Serbia for now, to stop tensions in region, and together to try to become EU. Then EU low will be legal and primary for us.

That will never happen again. Even after so many atrocities done, there was enough time on the table for your side to accept conditions, and they refused every single one of them. That time has passed and people want to move forward not whenever you find it fulfilling to try to negotiate.

Condition always was indenpendancy, you know that. I dont see compromise there.

Well, for someone who live in Montenegro, neighbor of Serbia nad Kosova, is very difficult to comment recent events. Congratulations for Kosova Albanians, for their independence, but here I must add some facts. Kosovo was in last 7-8 centeries the main historical, religious point of Serbia and Serbians. As you all know in Kosova there are few hundreds most beautiful ortodox churches in the world. I do not fear that Kosova, as independent state will allow destroyment of them, becouse it will start a very big war and conflict. Also Milosevic as president of Serbia in 1999 made very bad reactions towards Albanians in Kosova, becouse of what they get their independence. So for losing Kosovo, the main blame is at Serbian Governament in the past.
In my opinion it was very soon to make a decision of Kosova independence, knowing what have happened in ex Yugoslavia in last 20 years. I strongy feel that Serbians will react very soon, and also they can use army. Do not forget they have a support of Russia, who is by the opinion of many competent international diplomats the strongest and the most powerful nation and country today. USA in that matter can not do anything.
Best regards from Boka

Boka Kotorska Wrote:Well, for someone who live in Montenegro, neighbor of Serbia nad Kosova, is very difficult to comment recent events. Congratulations for Kosova Albanians, for their independence, but here I must add some facts. Kosovo was in last 7-8 centeries the main historical, religious point of Serbia and Serbians. As you all know in Kosova there are few hundreds most beautiful ortodox churches in the world. I do not fear that Kosova, as independent state will allow destroyment of them, becouse it will start a very big war and conflict. Also Milosevic as president of Serbia in 1999 made very bad reactions towards Albanians in Kosova, becouse of what they get their independence. So for losing Kosovo, the main blame is at Serbian Governament in the past.

Thank you for your kind and wise words. Both people have historical bases in that place, but one of them always decided to get it with force, from the time they came to that land and that was and will always be their destruction.

Quote:In my opinion it was very soon to make a decision of Kosova independence, knowing what have happened in ex Yugoslavia in last 20 years. I strongy feel that Serbians will react very soon, and also they can use army. Do not forget they have a support of Russia, who is by the opinion of many competent international diplomats the strongest and the most powerful nation and country today. USA in that matter can not do anything.
Best regards from Boka

No it wasn't soon for the decision, they already have had many many chances to find a middle ground and the serbs refused to negotiate. Serbs can react as much as they want, cause if they react, we will react too, even if our race has to come to an end, which I doubted it will, cause we have survived for thousands of years even with all the occupations of our lands. Russia does not have bread to feed is people forget to come and start a war. If they do, they will not start a war only against USA, but all the major countries who have already recognized Kosova as Independent state, so it will also be NATO which already is there. Serbia is not doing anything to Kosova right now whatsoever, the only thing they are destroying is themselves, and the image that they want to have as westernized country. So far they are still managing to show to the world that more than ever, the Independence of Kosova was inevitable.

The sooner they accept this the sooner things will be good for them.

Oh Oh Independence ...it's not a joke and sure that now we have it at all!

Oh Oh

very nice a ....
:lol:

Two more countries recognize Kosova.

Guest Wrote:

Tito Wrote:Serbian population in Kosovo is being terrorized and is forced to run away from their homes.

How true is this.. can you provide any facts or is it pure speculation?

There are lott of proofs. Unfortunatelly for serbian people and mankind, there are lott.
One pic for begining, very far for any speculation> Three albanians just cutted head of Serbian..


One book>
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