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To solve gas dispute, let's organise an Ultimate Mix Fighting: Putin vs Yuschenko! The Loser will be HARDLY punished and FORCED to leave office! Agree??????????????????????

sektor_Gaza Wrote:
tanya Wrote:May be EU peopel dont know that Russian peopel begins to live much better since Putin had became a president
of course they know, they just are envious of that fact! :langue

No, we're not. You are being ruled by the very same people who did not tell you or the Ukrainian people about the dangerous radiation, etc., from Chernobyl for three days while the rest of the world knew. And today they are trying to cover the fact that Russia is facing an economic Chernoybyl. Many small Banks are already closing. Russia has had to violate its WTO agreements to raise capital. There are doubts that Russia can prop up the Ruble, support failing industries like Gazprom and make it foreign debt payments -all at the same time-and there are NO countries, not even Germany, who both can and want to help you because they don't trust you. You probably don't know this but in many parts of Eastern Europe (not just Ukraine) people spit when they hear the Russian language. Get used to being hated for the sins of your fathers. But it will end... in twenty or thirty years. For now, I don't envy you one bit.

Russia is facing a Renascence! Ukraine's in downturn!

To solve gas dispute, let's organise an Ultimate Mix Fighting: Putin vs Yuschenko! The Loser will be HARDLY punished and FORCED to leave office! Agree?????????????????????? :-) :banghead

some ukranian brothers forget about OUR SHARED THOUSAND-YEARS HISTORY,
USE YOUR BRAIN!!!dont allow to divorse our nations...move out all shit from your minds!!!
Viva la Russia! Viva la Ukraine!
МЫ СЛАВЯНЕ!!!

How can you trust us? Our good meens you bad. For the long time every EU country wanted Russia to be somewhere in enother galaxy... Because you world has settled and you dont want new big player. It will set things up side down. But never say "never". There is nothing eternal in this world.
Every day you thik bad things about us, allways. And EU and US made our many bad things - but we dont think about you so bad as you are. Say why? Because Politics is not peopel. Dont know why you dont separate this concepts.

To solve gas dispute, let's organise an Ultimate Mix Fighting: Putin vs Yuschenko! The Loser will be HARDLY punished and FORCED to leave office! Agree??????????????????????

Quote:It is all too easy to let irrational emotivism and prejudicial presuppositions replace reason and a sense of perspective in discussions like this one. The question is Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine conflict?" The answer is yes. Russia cares because it believes that it was wronged by Ukraine and the dispute is costing much needed revenue and incalcuable damage to their reputation. Ukraine cares because it believes that it was wronged by Russia and is suffering similar economic damages. Europe cares because it has not wronged anyone and yet its people are freezing.

As a lawyer, I cannot understand why the contract was not extended for three months with a few amendments to promote good faith bargaining. In any case, it was not and negotiations were deadlocked. Ukraines well known political squabbling and its resulting failure to resolve payment and contract issues long before the start of winter cannot be justified or excused by the Ukrainian people. Russia's decision to then shut off gas to Ukraine's 48 million people in mid winter while simultaneously demanding that Ukraine use its own reserves as technical gas to deliver supplies to Europe was unconscionable no matter how frustrating the situation was. But at least Europe still had gas.

Ukraine's decision to use some of the gas intended for Europe as technical or transit gas instead of first using gas from its own reserves may be understandable --but it was nevertheless wrong and it escalated the conflict. Russia's responded by shutting off all gas to Europe rather than supply technical gas or allow Ukraine to use it for transit. Russia's response was incomprehensible from both a business and legal perspective. When Ukraine breached or repudiated its transit contract, Russia had a duty to mitigate damages. It should have kept pumping and just recording the difference between what it was pumping and what Europe was receiving and sued Ukraine together with Europe. Instead, Russia transferred the real cost of the breakdown in neogitations between it and Ukraine to Europe .

Both sides had another opportunity to do the right thing when the EU put independent monitors in place. They failed and it is not yet clear who really bears responsiblity for the failure but, as a lawyer, I would rather represent Ukraine. My reason for this is that Russia ignored European pleas and never attempted to send the full amount of gas due to Europe, nor to respond to Ukraine's request that it be shipped using a different route. Had Russia shipped the full amount of gas due to Europe with or without including transit gas, then the onus again would have been on Ukraine to meet its obligations. Russia never attempted full delivery, its reasons for doing so are unclear, and it is therefore legally questionable whether Ukraine can be held liable for any damages to Europe once the monitors were in place.

By way of disclaimer, the applicable contracts are undoubtable more complex but for all their complexity, common sense and common principles of law usually prevail. But whoever is to be blamed, neither Russia nor Ukraine can rightly call themselves a victim; it is Europe who is the victim.

Lost in all of the legalities and technicalities, is the simple and inescapable fact that while Russians and Ukrainians continue to throw insults and point fingers at each other others from the relative warmth of their offices and homes, the lives of millions in Europe have been disrupted and endangered. People are actually freezing to death. Does anyone care about the conflict. Yes, I care. We all should.

A pretty concise analysis although I might be tempted to take the side of Russia if it can prove that more than transit gas were being syphoned off by Ukraine... But overall, I would much rather represent the Europeans who are, as you say, the real victims. I would like to see some more comments like this instead of the banal and childish exchanges of insults and nationalistic jingoism that seems to infect this and several related sites on this forum. (I corrected a few typographical errors, hope you don't mind.)

BK Wrote:The question is Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine conflict?" The answer is yes. Russia cares because it believes that it was wronged by Ukraine and the dispute is costing much needed revenue and incalcuable damage to their reputation. Ukraine cares because it believes that it was wronged by Russia and is suffering similar economic damages. Europe cares because it has not wronged anyone and yet only its people are freezing. ...
Does anyone care about the conflict. Yes, I care. We all should.

Bravo, BK - the only one who answered the question and presented its own analysis not falling in tossing of russian/ukranian PR quotes. thank you!

What really surprises me on this forum I see originally it was created for Europeans but now it’s occupied by Russians. They openly express hate to Europe, they hate Anglo-Saxes but they are here on English language forum… completely inept. Like everything about Russia.

Do you hate West and UK guys? Go home to your mendicant Saratovs and Tambovs where you are paid for you work lower then Asians.

Russia lost 60% of its export, Gazprom loses 120 millions $ a day. How much Russian boys and girls should work to cover this everything? Like miners, huh? Smile

Oil will not help you because it’s cheaper then mud now. Russia exports only gas and oil and it’s the end now. You just can’t feel it at the moment but you will feel pretty soon.

I saw today comments on BBC World News. Spiteful British observers questioned a German expert. The girl from Berlin was pale as a ghost and painfully pressed out quite interesting numbers… The Angela Merkel put simply: “Russia have lost our confidence”. It’s BBC, forks.

This means there will never be any phantasmal alternative ways. Russia depends on Ukraine completely in its gas export and if we say – pay 10$ for transit, they will pay 10$ and not less.

US urges and promotes fastened building of Nabucco. Just when Europe will get gas from Caspian pool, Russian can forget about EU clientele. And Ukraine will be just happy to stop its GTS for Russia.

The only thing it means for silly Russian forks is slow starvation.

BK Wrote:As a lawyer, I cannot understand why the contract was not extended for three months with a few amendments to promote good faith bargaining.

Ask this question of ukrainians. They were suggested this option as an intermediary step too and refused. You know why? the answer is easy - they have their resevoirs full of gas (partly stolen) for months ahead if not the whole year as some report/speculate.

BK Wrote:negotiations were deadlocked.

Dubina, CEO of Naftogaz said yesterday that technically their gas transiting system is ok and ready to operate. But there is political green light. Still unclear or do you need this statement translated to English and proofed independently to be persuaded?

BK Wrote:Russia's decision to then shut off gas to Ukraine's 48 million people in mid winter while simultaneously demanding that Ukraine use its own reserves as technical gas to deliver supplies to Europe was unconscionable no matter how frustrating the situation was.

Laments for poor ukrainians? See above and forget it, professor, cause this is spin again. The pipe, when blocked at one end, cannot be pumped gas unlimitedly. It may blow up in the end of the days. This is pure physics, professor. My 12 year old son knows it. Don't you? Besides, there is no sense in further pumping if the gas doesn't go any further across the Ukraine.
Russia does not have to subsidize hostile regimes like Ukrainian orange gang. You Brits wouldn't spare even a penny to your friends, not saying about enemies. Why should Russians, heh?

BK Wrote:But at least Europe still had gas.

This is the most interesting part. Old Europe (Germany, France etc.) do have enough gas in their storages and supplies as well. Why should they care about neophites? Correct, they shouldn't. And that's exactly what's going on. Moreover, they win more than lose in this game: Russia is down (or will be soon as they think). Of course the Ukraine is the loser as well, just like the freezing countries. But that will be later - their orange junta leaders wouldn't care less what will be later. They have already their bank accounts houses and whatever to live ever happily if the things go wrong for them.
But I wold imagine this crisis would have been resolved within hours if only, say, Germany or Italy was in place of the Balkan countries. That's why you are so peaceful towards ukrainians:

BK Wrote:Ukraine's decision to use gas intended for Europe to stransit that same gas instead of using gas from its own reserves may be understandable --but wit as nevertheless wrong and it escalated the conflict.

Well done, professor! Go, say, to Bulgaria or Moldavia and say to anyone there about your understanding. I would be surprised if come back after that in good health.

BK Wrote:Russia's response, the decision to shut off all gas to Europe for Europe rather than supply technical gas or allow Ukraine to use it for transit, is incomprehensible from both a business and legal oerspective.

Spin,spin,spin, professor. Keep on saying this mantra: Russia's evil, Russia's evil. That's irrational and unbelievable! Beyond common and every sense.

RUSSIA CUT OF SUPPLIES TO THE UKRAINE AS THEY DID NOT PAY THEIR DEBT IN FULL AND DID NOT RENEW THE CONTRACT. THE UKRAINE HAS THEIR STORAGES FULL OF GAS ENOUGH FOR SEVERAL MONTHS AHEAD (MR. DOBINA ADMITTED IT MANY TIMES AND EVEN BOASTED EITH THAT). Can you read at all, professor.

BK Wrote:Does anyone care about the conflict. Yes, I care. We all should.

No, you don't. You think you outwit people on this forum - no. Keep on spinning - that's the only thing you can do, lawyer.

Max Wrote:What really surprises me on this forum I see originally it was created for Europeans but now it’s occupied by Russians. They openly express hate to Europe, they hate Anglo-Saxes but they are here on English language forum… completely inept. Like everything about Russia.

Do you hate West and UK guys? Go home to your mendicant Saratovs and Tambovs where you are paid for you work lower then Asians.

Russia lost 60% of its export, Gazprom loses 120 millions $ a day. How much Russian boys and girls should work to cover this everything? Like miners, huh?

Oil will not help you because it’s cheaper then mud now. Russia exports only gas and oil and it’s the end now. You just can’t feel it at the moment but you will feel pretty soon.

I saw today comments on BBC World News. Spiteful British observers questioned a German expert. The girl from Berlin was pale as a ghost and painfully pressed out quite interesting numbers… The Angela Merkel put simply: “Russia have lost our confidence”. It’s BBC, forks.

This means there will never be any phantasmal alternative ways. Russia depends on Ukraine completely in its gas export and if we say – pay 10$ for transit, they will pay 10$ and not less.

US urges and promotes fastened building of Nabucco. Just when Europe will get gas from Caspian pool, Russian can forget about EU clientele. And Ukraine will be just happy to stop its GTS for Russia.

The only thing it means for silly Russian forks is slow starvation.

What caused you to have Russians by calling then silly?

Sorry "to hate" instead of "to have"

reader Wrote:
BK Wrote:The question is Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine conflict?" The answer is yes. Russia cares because it believes that it was wronged by Ukraine and the dispute is costing much needed revenue and incalcuable damage to their reputation. Ukraine cares because it believes that it was wronged by Russia and is suffering similar economic damages. Europe cares because it has not wronged anyone and yet only its people are freezing. ...
Does anyone care about the conflict. Yes, I care. We all should.
Bravo, BK - the only one who answered the question and presented its own analysis not falling in tossing of russian/ukranian PR quotes. thank you!

Everything in this world is PR now, including this forum, my, yours and BK's posts here.
Frankly, I don't see where "BK answered the question" and what was the question he "answered", btw?

sektor_Gaza Wrote:What caused you to hate Russians by calling them silly?

Whan you will begin eat the ground you will understand. Smile

It's hard to win if entire the World is against you.

Max Wrote:
sektor_Gaza Wrote:What caused you to hate Russians by calling them silly?

Whan you will begin eat the ground you will understand.

It's hard to win if entire the World is against you.

Really? I have not noticed it yet! Maybe you had tasted the ground already. is it so?

What is an "entire the World" for you? maybe USA, UK, EU and puppets (Georgia and Ukraine)?

For me the entire world means Chine, India, Brasil, Venesuella, Africa, Palistine and more more more.

[quote="Max"]What really surprises me on this forum I see originally it was created for Europeans but now it’s occupied by Russians. They openly express hate to Europe, they hate Anglo-Saxes but they are here on English language forum… completely inept. Like everything about Russia.

Do you hate West and UK guys? Go home to your mendicant Saratovs and Tambovs where you are paid for you work lower then Asians.

quote]

1.I was pretty confused by your mind "They openly express hate to Europe, they hate Anglo-Saxes" :quoi

- hey mister! who told you this shit? esp. "to europe"??? :oO
we are part of european civilization, world and culture, with some specialities Smile

, but mainly - we are europeans!

or maybe albanians or romanians more "civilazed" and "western" than we are? or maybe turks or mabribean arabs whom you want to indetify as europeans??
:fi

Quote:- or maybe albanians or romanians more "civilazed" and "western" than we are? or maybe turks or mabribean arabs whom you want to indetify as europeans??

Arabs, Albanians, Romanians, Turks are so nice people. They are suppressed by Germans, British men, Frenchmen. They truly suffer! As a Russian I express my support to them!

sektor_Gaza Wrote:
Max Wrote:
sektor_Gaza Wrote:What caused you to hate Russians by calling them silly?

Whan you will begin eat the ground you will understand.
It's hard to win if entire the World is against you.

Really? I have not noticed it yet! Maybe you had tasted the ground already. is it so?
What is an "entire the World" for you? maybe USA, UK, EU and puppets (Georgia and Ukraine)?

For me the entire world means Chine, India, Brasil, Venesuella, Africa, Palistine and more more more.

Russia forced us to eat dirt for seventy years. And now the children of their children of their children will eat it, starting with children like you. All of your republics want to break away from you and take parts of you with them. China will be happy to take Siberia and your oil and the rest of the will help it. India will take from your refugees the few people who can think. The Arabs and Turks will be happy to take the women you keep sending them.Africa gave you Pushkin, they bave nothing else to give you but SIDS/AIDS and burning tires around your stomach. Brazil and Venesuela don't want vodka drunk people who can't dance. Maybe you and your children and their children will find room on the Gaza strip working for the Palistians.

sektor_Gaza Wrote:For me the entire world means Chine, India, Brasil, Venesuella, Africa, Palistine and more more more.

For you entire World means mostly Africa.

The best Brits can do about local online "Russian epidemic" is to simply kick Russians off.

Quote:Russia forced us to eat dirt for seventy years. And now the children of their children of their children will eat it, starting with children like you.

Russia (better say Soviet Union) ruled by Georgian-origin Stalin or by Ukrainian Nikitka Khrushev that forced you to eat dirt so long or by Ukrainian Chernenko or Ukrainian Gorbochev? I can't understand you then.
The Russian MUST be angry for outsiders that captured control on Russia during seventy years.

Quote: China will be happy to take Siberia and your oil and the rest of the will help it. India will take from your refugees the few people who can think. The Arabs and Turks will be happy to take the women you keep sending them.Africa gave you Pushkin, they bave nothing else to give you but SIDS/AIDS and burning tires around your stomach. Brazil and Venesuela don't want vodka drunk people who can't dance. Maybe you and your children and their children will find room on the Gaza strip working for the Palistians.

These nations are nice and kind and have nothing with you being so rude and "spoilt by West"

Max Wrote:US urges and promotes fastened building of Nabucco. Just when Europe will get gas from Caspian pool, Russian can forget about EU clientele. And Ukraine will be just happy to stop its GTS for Russia.

The only thing it means for silly Russian forks is slow starvation.

1.Hey dude! be polite! :evil you are european or not?? ;(
Smth seems me youre - "fresh european" ;-) from "new democracies"???

2.dont overestimate Caspian pool...
anyway europe will need more and more energy
so lets make a deal & a.s.a.p. use for it north&south streams??

To Max, the Ukrainian,

You are the clear example of a instigator ( :geek: provoker ;( ) to stir up hatred towards, Holy Russia!

Max Wrote:
sektor_Gaza Wrote:For me the entire world means Chine, India, Brasil, Venesuella, Africa, Palistine and more more more.

For you entire World means mostly Africa.

The best Brits can do about local online "Russian epidemic" is to simply kick Russians off.

Good idea - but not just Russians (although there are two or three really obnoxious ones here like Moskal and sektion_Gaza) but anyone who engages in name calling and similar non-constructive immature behavior. Whose the overall site moderator and how do we do it?

Quote:Max said:The best Brits can do about local online "Russian epidemic" is to simply kick Russians off.

Quote:reader2 added: Good idea - but not just Russians (although there are two or three really obnoxious ones here like Moskal and sektion_Gaza) but anyone who engages in name calling and similar non-constructive immature behavior. Whose the overall site moderator and how do we do it?

FUN questions:
Ukrainian democrat Max proclaimed "Let's kick Russians from our own EU forum off!". Another Ukrainian Nonsensecrat Reader2 added: "how do we do it?"

Answer: Keep Russian gas blocked and start blackmailing Administration of EU forum saying that if Russians are allowed here to express thoughts, you're gonna freeze them to death :-)

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sektor_Gaza

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sektor_Gaza

Miskhorsky

tanya

sektor_Gaza

Guest

reader

Max

Moskal

sektor_Gaza

sektor_Gaza

Moskal

Max

sektor_Gaza

Miskhorsky

sektor_Gaza

PoleAxed

Max

sektor_Gaza

Miskhorsky

sektor_Gaza

reader2

sektor_Gaza